From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jan 16 18:23:47 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, January 17 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2643 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] the nerve... RE: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid diesel!! You go John! [db] all of my repair manual links are dead! Re: [db] all of my repair manual links are dead! Re: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid diesel!! You go John! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:57:07 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] the nerve... I went to that site... from my friend from france who lives in the bay area... and wouldn't you know... it's in FRENCH!!! what nerve! no "1" for english or spanish... imagine the nerve of those people to only offer their language... :) http://www.controletechnique.info/points-de-controle-technique/pollution-niveau-sonore-10.html john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:34:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: RE: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid diesel!! You go John! WOW, with "tin foil hat" and all, I don't think I could have said it better. Amen to that Jason! Jim - --- jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > Ummmm.......well, I am quite politically minded (I > think.....) but I'm not really sure what you're > trying to say. I'll give it my best shot. > > How is a non-driver subsidizing a hummer driver? > Virtually all of the road taxes consumers pay in > this country are on fuel. Non-drivers buy none of > it, hummer drivers buy a lot of it, so how is that > subsidizing anything? And commerce uses more fuel > than you can imagine, thus paying its fair share, > AND they get double-dipped on by getting charged > AGAIN by miles as well as gallons, thus they pay > MORE than their "fair share." > > Also, the true price of anything is determined by a > simple mechanism of supply and demand. When the > government gets involved in trade with taxes and > price-fixing, economic woes always follow, such as > shortages. > > The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a > "fair share." But for the sake of argument, let's > define it as if there is. If you have the means to > legitimately procure something and wish to do so, > there's nothing unfair about that. But taking > something from another by theft (force,) whether you > use your own gun or Unkle Sam's, is ALWAYS taking > more than your fair share, no matter how little you > have. People who have the least in this country > typically are the ones who take more than their fair > share, in that they are the ones who tend to take > things that do not belong to them by means of > government redistribution programs. > > If it weren't for the socialist wealth > redistribution programs, there would be no > "unemployment" stats, because it'd be too small to > note. These government-sanctioned theft operations > both hamstring the economy by sucking money out of > it, reducing the number of jobs to be had, and also > reduce the motivation of certain individuals to > work. It used to be, and still ought to be, that > someone who refused to work somewhere, somehow would > starve. Private charities should help the disabled, > and the lazy should be allowed to get hungry so they > have a motive to go out and work again. Now the > government will feed people who don't want to work, > so they don't. > > J > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Travis S. Thornton" > Subj: RE: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid diesel!! > You go John! > Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:18 am > Size: 6K > To: > > Wow. I've benefitted from this list and gotten some > good advice for my 74 > 240d, but the politics are very interesting. I > agree the market can't > really drive folks' vehicle selection if it is > prohibited from working > effectively as a result of governmental > restrictions. But doesn't that cut > both ways? What should the true cost of gas and > road use be? Why aren't > the $10/gal EU fuel prices appropriate here, at > least for discretionary > driving? There are societal benefits in having all > taxpayers subsidize > roads and fuel for commerce that benefits those > taxpayers. However, why > should a non-driver pay a subsidy to a Hummer > driver? Isn't that also a > nanny state, with the nanny-ism protecting those who > take more than their > share? Just sayin'. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:29 AM > To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid > diesel!! You go John! > > people are insecure... > the world is a tough place and people just put their > hope in the government > to take care of them... > it's a lot easier than actually dealing with it > yourself, so you give up a > few things in exchange... no biggie, > right? > > > > ----- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** > http://wagoneers.com ** > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > # [sigh] That's about what I figured. I just hope > that "baby step" (which I > think is more like 200 baby steps) doesn't get > allowed to take us to that > point. Better yet, get it repealed in the interest > of freedom. > # > # When will the nanny state go away? When people > break up with government > and fall in love with freedom again. But it will > NEVER happen. People are > more interested in feeling safe than being free. > Enviro-whacko-ism is just > one example. > # > # J > # > # -----Original Message----- > # > # From: Edward Pomeroy > # Subj: Re: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid > diesel!! You go John! > # Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:19 pm > # Size: 3K > # To: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" > > # cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > # > # You don't really want to know the answer to that. > To list some of the > # insanity going on in Europe - by 2012 no car can > emit more than 140 > # grams of CO2 per some number of miles, I don't > have the rules and > # formulas memorized but can dig it up at work if > necessary. All parts > # of the car must be recyclable and you the buyer > are paying for that cost > # up front when you buy a new car. To the extreme > that the materials used > # in the car must be designed to be easily removed > and recycled (if > # unchecked, this may kill the old car hobby in > europe, there is one hell > # of a fight going on now over just that). As you > may be aware, the nanny > # state now requires all trucks over 2 tons to have > a trip recorder in it > # that logs speed and mileage and you are taxed on > road usage or fined for > # breaking the law based on the readings, so if you > are a trucker, you are > # locked in to so many hours of driving per day and > at no more than the > # mandated speeds (they use team drivers to get > around the driving time > # limits on long haul). Then you have to take a > break, stop at a hotel or > # whatever. It is already increasing the cost of > shipping intra EU like > # crazy. And if you are a private party that > happens to want a nice large > # truck, you too are snared in this idiocy plus you > need to get a CDL to > # drive your private truck (and the cost of doing > so runs into the > # thousands of dollars). Also, in Norway for > example, they passed a law > # that says that a truck by definition cannot carry > more than 3 persons in > # the front seats so if you want a twin cab US > truck (or a HUMMER) over > # there, you have to strip out the rear seats and > use it only for cargo or > # you can't get it registered. And on and on it > goes. Welcome to the > # brave new EU world. > # > # Our new CAFE standard is a baby step down this > road, I am a proponent of > # letting the marketplace determine what is built. > If people demand > # smaller vehicles, the industry will go that way, > if they don't, it > # won't. (but by golly the elites will force you to > like === message truncated === ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:20:20 -0800 From: "Paul Masterson" Subject: [db] all of my repair manual links are dead! I am going to need to change out one or two ball joints on my w123 series 240D and went to check with the online manuals I used to have acess to, but the are all dead now. Does anyone have a good working link to an online repair manual anymore? I may just have to buy a hard copy if this keeps up. :) Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:48:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] all of my repair manual links are dead! Paul, I may have a copy of a 123 manual on CD somewhere... I'll look tomorrow or in a few days... I'm teaching at City U tonight and my son is coming home from the air force tomorrow or friday and I have class at Embry Riddle fri/sat, teaching a class sunday morning... so... if I remember, after my Sunday afternoon nap I'll look... unless I get busy with homework or something else. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Paul Masterson wrote: # I am going to need to change out one or two ball joints on my w123 series 240D # and went to check with the online manuals I used to have acess to, but the are # all dead now. Does anyone have a good working link to an online repair manual # anymore? I may just have to buy a hard copy if this keeps up. :) # # Paul # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:22:55 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid diesel!! You go John! John 1) The taxpayer in EUland pays for those roads. 2) The road bed preparation is approximately 5 ft thicker with more consistent layering of stone, sand etc. (deeper) than is used in the U.S. (we cut costs to the bleeding edge of the Civil Engineering profession) 3) The concrete is close to 20" thick, in U.S. we commonly use 10" for interstates, even in northern MI and MN where the frost heave is a killer. These three are the main factors in why the Autobahns seems smooth as silk and last forever even with cold winters. Up front investment is much heavier. It could be the same here if we the taxpayer want to bear the cost up front, instead we pay over time with constant patching and re-finishing of that top 10" of concrete. Job security for the trades I guess. Edward john wrote: >I'm not sure any of us understand how all the taxes work here or in Europe. > >But I think it's therapuetic for us to talk about it... where else can we >go to talk about issues like this without getting red faced? We're all >friends here, and know that we all do not share the same viewpoints, but >our common focus is our wheels. :) > >I will say one thing, the roads in Europe are fantastic... They're quite >good in California and Oregon, can't say the same thing for Western Washington. ;) > >john > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Travis S. Thornton wrote: > > # Wow. I've benefitted from this list and gotten some good advice for my 74 > # 240d, but the politics are very interesting. I agree the market can't > # really drive folks' vehicle selection if it is prohibited from working > # effectively as a result of governmental restrictions. But doesn't that cut > # both ways? What should the true cost of gas and road use be? Why aren't > # the $10/gal EU fuel prices appropriate here, at least for discretionary > # driving? There are societal benefits in having all taxpayers subsidize > # roads and fuel for commerce that benefits those taxpayers. However, why > # should a non-driver pay a subsidy to a Hummer driver? Isn't that also a > # nanny state, with the nanny-ism protecting those who take more than their > # share? Just sayin'. > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > # Behalf Of john > # Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:29 AM > # To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com > # Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > # Subject: Re: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid diesel!! You go John! > # > # people are insecure... > # the world is a tough place and people just put their hope in the government > # to take care of them... > # it's a lot easier than actually dealing with it yourself, so you give up a > # few things in exchange... no biggie, > # right? > # > # > # > # ----- > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # there's a solution for every problem; > # problem is can we afford the solution? > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > # On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > # > # # [sigh] That's about what I figured. I just hope that "baby step" (which I > # think is more like 200 baby steps) doesn't get allowed to take us to that > # point. Better yet, get it repealed in the interest of freedom. > # # > # # When will the nanny state go away? When people break up with government > # and fall in love with freedom again. But it will NEVER happen. People are > # more interested in feeling safe than being free. Enviro-whacko-ism is just > # one example. > # # > # # J > # # > # # -----Original Message----- > # # > # # From: Edward Pomeroy > # # Subj: Re: [db] New Rover with 60MPG hybrid diesel!! You go John! > # # Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:19 pm > # # Size: 3K > # # To: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" > # # cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > # # > # # You don't really want to know the answer to that. To list some of the > # # insanity going on in Europe - by 2012 no car can emit more than 140 > # # grams of CO2 per some number of miles, I don't have the rules and > # # formulas memorized but can dig it up at work if necessary. All parts > # # of the car must be recyclable and you the buyer are paying for that cost > # # up front when you buy a new car. To the extreme that the materials used > # # in the car must be designed to be easily removed and recycled (if > # # unchecked, this may kill the old car hobby in europe, there is one hell > # # of a fight going on now over just that). As you may be aware, the nanny > # # state now requires all trucks over 2 tons to have a trip recorder in it > # # that logs speed and mileage and you are taxed on road usage or fined for > # # breaking the law based on the readings, so if you are a trucker, you are > # # locked in to so many hours of driving per day and at no more than the > # # mandated speeds (they use team drivers to get around the driving time > # # limits on long haul). Then you have to take a break, stop at a hotel or > # # whatever. It is already increasing the cost of shipping intra EU like > # # crazy. And if you are a private party that happens to want a nice large > # # truck, you too are snared in this idiocy plus you need to get a CDL to > # # drive your private truck (and the cost of doing so runs into the > # # thousands of dollars). Also, in Norway for example, they passed a law > # # that says that a truck by definition cannot carry more than 3 persons in > # # the front seats so if you want a twin cab US truck (or a HUMMER) over > # # there, you have to strip out the rear seats and use it only for cargo or > # # you can't get it registered. And on and on it goes. Welcome to the > # # brave new EU world. > # # > # # Our new CAFE standard is a baby step down this road, I am a proponent of > # # letting the marketplace determine what is built. If people demand > # # smaller vehicles, the industry will go that way, if they don't, it > # # won't. (but by golly the elites will force you to like it!). > # # > # # Edward > # # > # # jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > # # > # # >What environmentally paranoid legislation are they referencing in 2012? > # Some > # # >dastardly anti-capitalist UN mandate? > # # > > # # >J > # # > > # # >-- Edward Pomeroy wrote: > # # >I stripped out the picture - go to the website to look. > # # >Edward > # # > > # # > > # # >An advanced hybrid diesel engine, capable of returning 60mpg will power > # # >the planned production version of Land Rover's stunning LRX, it has been > # # >announced. > # # > > # # > > # # >Tipped to go on sale in 2009, the three door cross-coupe was the star of > # # >this year's 2008 Detroit Motor Show, and dramatically takes Land Rover > # # >into an uncharted sector of the new car market. > # # > > # # >"The LRX concept delivers the powerful message that we are as serious > # # >about sustainability as we are confident about the relevance and > # # >desirability of our vehicles" said Phil Popham, Land Rovers managing > # # >director. "LRX is in every respect a Land Rover, but it is a very > # # >different Land Rover," he added. > # # > > # # >Though exact details of the engine are still top secret, the firm has > # # >announced that the 2.0-litre diesel electric hybrid unit will be capable > # # >of running on bio fuel, and is the first to feature the firm's newly > # # >developed Electric Rear Axle Drive (ERAD). > # # > > # # >This will allow the car to drive in a fully electric mode at low speeds, > # # >while retaining unbeatable off road ability and impressive on road > # # >performance. > # # > > # # >With a CO2 output of 120g/km, the car meets tough new emissions > # # >legislation, due to be introduced in 2012. > # # > > # # >More LAND ROVER LRX: > # # > > # # > o News, Auto Express News: Land Rover LRX > # # > > # # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2643 **********************************