From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Feb 19 11:48:34 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, February 19 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2663 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] military vs. civilian Re: [db] military vs. civilian Re: [db] military vs. civilian Re: [db] military vs. civilian [db] the omega project [db] engine weights, weight of 6.2Diesel vs. AMC 360 [db] more tab increases in WA state??? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:37:09 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] military vs. civilian That would be my guess. I don't think the military is concerned about fuel economy, rather they want to make sure the truck will run on any form of fuel they can locate. My guess is that a truck set up to run correctly on pump diesel will get better economy. J.B. At 06:36 PM 2/18/2008, john wrote: >so it would work better for Veggie oil, biodiesel and Diesel? :) > >and if it's tuned down, probably get better economy too, eh? > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, J.B. Hebert wrote: > > # The civy and military versions are identical with the exception > of the extra > # alternator on the military version to let it run 24V, and a 24V starter. > # Everything else is 12V and interchangeable. If anything, the pump and > # injectors are tuned DOWN on the military version to make it multi-fuel > # compatible. > # > # Good luck. > # > # J.B. > # > # At 04:09 PM 2/18/2008, john wrote: > # > # >I'm wondering if the parts for the military version of the 6.2L Diesel > # >are that much different from the civilian version... I'm kind > of thinking > # >that the pump and injectors may be kicked up a notch or two... > # > > # >anyone know? :) > # > > # >looking at a Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Injection Pump 6.2L HMMWV CUCV Us, > # >it's used, may work, if it does I'll either us it or carry it as a spare. > # > > # >Planning on keeping a spare injection pump, injectors, fuel solenoid > # >and filters on board as spares... > # > > # >along with taller bump stops... :) > # >http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/02-Feb-17-Omega-oil-mountains/ > # > > # >john > # > > # > ----- > # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > > # >-- > # >No virus found in this incoming message. > # >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > # >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release > Date: 2/18/2008 > # >5:50 AM > # > # J.B. Hebert > # > # ---------------------------------------------- > # Current Vehicles: > # > # '76 Ford Bronco > # '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 > # '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe > # '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) > # '93 GMC Sierra 2500 > # '95 Mercedes E300D Sportline+ > # > # > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: >2/18/2008 5:50 AM J.B. Hebert - ---------------------------------------------- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D Sportline+ - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 5:50 AM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:44:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] military vs. civilian one thing I've noticed about both the military and the 3/4t version is the lack of the egr and a lot larger air intake manifold... the 1/2t version has a wimpy opening and it's clogged up with the egr. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, J.B. Hebert wrote: # That would be my guess. I don't think the military is concerned about fuel # economy, rather they want to make sure the truck will run on any form of fuel # they can locate. My guess is that a truck set up to run correctly on pump # diesel will get better economy. # # J.B. # # At 06:36 PM 2/18/2008, john wrote: # # >so it would work better for Veggie oil, biodiesel and Diesel? :) # > # >and if it's tuned down, probably get better economy too, eh? # > # > ----- # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # >On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, J.B. Hebert wrote: # > # > # The civy and military versions are identical with the exception # > of the extra # > # alternator on the military version to let it run 24V, and a 24V starter. # > # Everything else is 12V and interchangeable. If anything, the pump and # > # injectors are tuned DOWN on the military version to make it multi-fuel # > # compatible. # > # # > # Good luck. # > # # > # J.B. # > # # > # At 04:09 PM 2/18/2008, john wrote: # > # # > # >I'm wondering if the parts for the military version of the 6.2L Diesel # > # >are that much different from the civilian version... I'm kind # > of thinking # > # >that the pump and injectors may be kicked up a notch or two... # > # > # > # >anyone know? :) # > # > # > # >looking at a Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Injection Pump 6.2L HMMWV CUCV Us, # > # >it's used, may work, if it does I'll either us it or carry it as a # > # >spare. # > # > # > # >Planning on keeping a spare injection pump, injectors, fuel solenoid # > # >and filters on board as spares... # > # > # > # >along with taller bump stops... :) # > # >http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/02-Feb-17-Omega-oil-mountains/ # > # > # > # >john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # >-- # > # >No virus found in this incoming message. # > # >Checked by AVG Free Edition. # > # >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release # > Date: 2/18/2008 # > # >5:50 AM # > # # > # J.B. Hebert # > # # > # ---------------------------------------------- # > # Current Vehicles: # > # # > # '76 Ford Bronco # > # '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 # > # '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe # > # '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) # > # '93 GMC Sierra 2500 # > # '95 Mercedes E300D Sportline+ # > # # > # # > # > # > # >-- # >No virus found in this incoming message. # >Checked by AVG Free Edition. # >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 # >5:50 AM # # J.B. Hebert # # ---------------------------------------------- # Current Vehicles: # # '76 Ford Bronco # '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 # '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe # '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) # '93 GMC Sierra 2500 # '95 Mercedes E300D Sportline+ # # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:55:11 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] military vs. civilian Remember the diesel mantra: There is no place for an EGR on a diesel engine. Yank it. J.B. At 06:44 PM 2/18/2008, john wrote: >one thing I've noticed about both the military and the 3/4t version >is the lack of the egr and a lot larger air intake manifold... the >1/2t version has a wimpy opening and it's clogged up with the egr. > >john > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, J.B. Hebert wrote: > > # That would be my guess. I don't think the military is concerned > about fuel > # economy, rather they want to make sure the truck will run on any > form of fuel > # they can locate. My guess is that a truck set up to run correctly on pump > # diesel will get better economy. > # > # J.B. > # > # At 06:36 PM 2/18/2008, john wrote: > # > # >so it would work better for Veggie oil, biodiesel and Diesel? :) > # > > # >and if it's tuned down, probably get better economy too, eh? > # > > # > ----- > # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # >On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, J.B. Hebert wrote: > # > > # > # The civy and military versions are identical with the exception > # > of the extra > # > # alternator on the military version to let it run 24V, and a > 24V starter. > # > # Everything else is 12V and interchangeable. If anything, the pump and > # > # injectors are tuned DOWN on the military version to make it multi-fuel > # > # compatible. > # > # > # > # Good luck. > # > # > # > # J.B. > # > # > # > # At 04:09 PM 2/18/2008, john wrote: > # > # > # > # >I'm wondering if the parts for the military version of the > 6.2L Diesel > # > # >are that much different from the civilian version... I'm kind > # > of thinking > # > # >that the pump and injectors may be kicked up a notch or two... > # > # > > # > # >anyone know? :) > # > # > > # > # >looking at a Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Injection Pump 6.2L HMMWV CUCV Us, > # > # >it's used, may work, if it does I'll either us it or carry it as a > # > # >spare. > # > # > > # > # >Planning on keeping a spare injection pump, injectors, fuel solenoid > # > # >and filters on board as spares... > # > # > > # > # >along with taller bump stops... :) > # > # >http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/02-Feb-17-Omega-oil-mountains/ > # > # > > # > # >john > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > > # >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 2/18/2008 5:50 AM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:13:39 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] military vs. civilian yep, they used the same style of pump with the 5.7L's... the rotary pumps aren't as durable as the inline pumps like on the Benz. however, they're very easy to rebuild and relatively easy to swap out... I pulled up to the diesel shop, they pulled it, rebuilt it and put it back in all the same day. If I ever get a 6.5 will replace the electronic dist version with the mechanical from the 6.2. I've had four of these GM Diesels... wait, 5... no, 6. :) never left me stranded... but what happens is they just get to be less efficient, and in cold weather will give you fits... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 18 Feb 2008, Jerome Kaidor wrote: # john wrote: # > # > I'm wondering if the parts for the military version of the 6.2L Diesel # > are that much different from the civilian version... I'm kind of thinking # > that the pump and injectors may be kicked up a notch or two... # > # > anyone know? :) # > # > looking at a Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Injection Pump # *** Probably wise to carry a spare on one of those. A friend of mine who is # into Big American Diesels bent my ear for about 20 minutes about that very # pump a few days ago. Seems that it has one pump feeding a fluid distributor # with a rotating disk. The whole idea was to make it cheap. # # It makes sense that a pump that feeds 8 cylinders will wear about 8 times # as fast as 8 separate pumps feeding one cylinder. Also, the rotating disk # is a precision and high-wear item. # # - Jerry Kaidor # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] the omega project omega: 1991 Grand Wagoneer - 6.2L Diesel/700R4/NP228 3" body lift, factory sunroof... update: had a mechanic friend drop by Sunday afternoon... we ran some tests, made some adjustments... later I ran some of my own tests... and... ...after oiling the driveway last night, http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/02-Feb-17-Omega-oil-mountains/ALL.html I spent my afternoon today chasing down kitty litter to clean the carport and the parts to begin the next phase of the Diesel jeep project... :) - - ordered new Diesel injectors so it runs better, about a week out... - - ordered a new vacuum pump so the 4wd and a/c-heat vents work... - - picked up a BMK-13 Amsoil Dual Remote Filtration System so the filter will be mounted away from moving objects... not sure if I'll mount it up on the fender under the washer bottles or on the frame across from the oil filter location, or back by the fuel filters... can go a maximum of 4 feet... nice thing is I will be able to use standard or larger oil filters and gain some capacity and cooling at the same time. - - picked up enough amsoil to refill the crankcase with marine grade 15-40 synthetic. :) (hey, at least I don't need to drain the old oil. :) - - picked up enough amsoil synthetic ATF to do the xfr case, and top off the 700r4. - - going to and take it and the '89 GW down to the scale and see how much more my '91 is with the 6.2L Diesel and the aux tank. I can't image that a Detroit Diesel 6.2L (379 cu in) weighs that much more than an AMC 360 (5.9l) especially considering the 6.2 has an aluminum intake and the 360 a cast iron. the scale will tell the story. springs were sagging as a stock option. we'll see... - -then I'll decide whether to go with the 4" lift or the 2"... hoping for the 2" so I don't have to mess with brake lines and panhard bars and such... already have 3" of body lift. - -eventually I hope to get the original WJ seats from my '99 in this thing, will fix up the XJ console (had to cut the park brake well pan a bit to fit the floor), wire in the IPF lights, and install the am/fm/sw stereo and cd changer. I need to take some time off and relax after finishing my masters degree. :) Hoping to have Omega road worthy, with 40 gallons of Diesel/BioDiesel and around 20 miles per gallon we should be able to take quite a drive... :) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ yes, Diesel dreams really do come true... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/5_omega_9feb08/Omega-6.2L-9Feb2008.MOV been waiting over 16 years for this... :) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/GarageScenes-Jan92.jpg john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:01:02 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] engine weights, weight of 6.2Diesel vs. AMC 360 cool link, thanx fish... http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=634 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines mark and I will get our GWs down to the scale this week, both are down right now, the 89 is getting a broken exhaust manifold bolt removed and mine is in the middle of an "oil change". ;) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 19 Feb 2008, Fisher, Timothy M Mr CTR USA USAMC wrote: # Classification: UNCLASSIFIED # Caveats: NONE # # # WOW!! I found a HUGE engine weight table, everything from alpha to wright # at wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=634 # # it covers AMC V8s # Sorry I did not see GMC diesels # # tim "Fish" fisher # Factory Service Representative # M1117 ASV # Cadillac Gage combat vehicles # Q-West Iraq # Here to help them do what they would have done # if they knew what they could do # # ------------------------------------------------------ # Classification: UNCLASSIFIED # Caveats: NONE # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:47:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] more tab increases in WA state??? got this from a friend, haven't verified it. europe uses licensing like this, but they have exemptions for fuel efficient engines like Diesels and those that make use of alternate fuels like LPG, etc. I purposely converted my gas engine to a Diesel for economy... could have cost me an extra $75/yr! (5.9 gas to 6.2 Diesel). Where's Tim Eyeman when you need him anyway? ;) john Subject: Car Tabs Increase - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vehicle License Fee Bill SB6900 Hello, There is a bill that the Washington State Legislature is trying to pass in Olympia that, if successful, will directly add huge costs to our vehicle license fees. Everyone needs to know about so this situation so that you can contact your representatives and voice your objection. The bill is SB 6900 and it adds an "engine displacement" fee to the vehicle license tabs upon renewal. The fee has a varied amount depending on the size of the vehicle's engine: Engine Size (liters) Rate Schedule Up to 1.9 $0 2.0 - 2.9 $70 3.0 - 3.9 $225 4.0 - 4.9 $275 5.0 - 5.9 $325 6.0 - 7.9 $400 8.0 or over $600 For each car & truck that you own, calculate the rate by matching the engine size in liters to the dollar amount. Add the amounts for each vehicle and you'll see that the average two car family will be paying $500+ every year in "displacement fees" on top of the normal license fees. If you have three vehicles, you'll be paying even more. The average family is already struggling with the high cost of gasoline, electricity, food and everything else, and our lawmakers want us to pay more, thinking we have unlimited deep pockets. This will do great damage to the budgets of retirees on fixed incomes as well. Now is the time to be very vocal against this bill. I have contacted all of our representatives, and I would encourage everyone reading this to do the same. Here's the web page for the bill where you can read the text: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=6900&year=2007 Here's the link for contacting your representatives: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/Default.aspx If we don't threaten mass rebellion over this, they'll pass this bill and we'll be paying huge fees every year on top of their increase in the gas tax. They have to know that we won't stand for any more taxes or increase in licensing fees. I've told my representatives that I will actively work to see that any lawmaker that supports this bill is replaced at election time. Please contact your legislators, then copy the text of this e mail, and forward it to as many people as possible that you know in Washington State, and encourage them to contact their representatives and strongly voice their objection to this bill. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2663 **********************************