From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Nov 29 21:49:04 2000 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, November 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1002 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: re: Subject: xj: Re: Vigilante-327 Justice xj: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? Re: xj: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? xj: gearing & tire sizes xj: Re: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? xj: Re: Selectrac Info - 86 jeep Re: xj: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? xj: Fender Flare 97 XJ Re: xj: Bell housing for xfer Case? xj: how to read the data plate on an NP xfr case XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:04:41 -0800 From: john Subject: re: Subject: xj: Re: Vigilante-327 Justice Paul, You're making an assumption about litigation based on the current political environment. Intellectual property was not as well protected back then (late 50's, early 60's) and lawyers hadn't yet screwed up a lot of things, like the small airplane industry and so on... remember ralph nader had not yet set the example for other shysters by attacking the corvair, that came later. Also, you have to remember that Kaiser-AMC-Nash-Rambler-Willys and Jeep all had working arrangements of some kind together. So it's not unlikely that blueprints from Kaiser found their way over to AMC, maybe even with management's blessings... who knows except those involved... Still, it's speculation... a hunch... will we ever get the real facts? Who shot JFK? What really happened with Vince Foster? Will Al Gore finally concede? ;) Will there be enough Lysol in Washington, DC in January? >From: "Paul W." >Subject: xj: Re: Vigilante-327 Justice >Interesting stuff Greg! As I've said before I'm no AMC historian (just a >healthy appetite for Jeep history - which ends up including a bit of AMC >history ;) - but here's some "JMHO" stuff... >In the myth section of your "SCENARIO #1" it is rumored that Kaiser engineers >took blueprints with them when they left... as an employee who works for a >company that does a LOT of engineering (Boeing), I am familiar with how >something like that works and engineering and inventions done while under the >employ of a company are proprietary to the company, NOT the engineer. If >these >engineers who left Kaiser went to work for AMC and took designs with them and >AMC used it, there would have been a big law suit... however, that doesn't >rule >out ex-Kaiser engineers remembering what they designed and using similar, but >different enough, designs once under the employ of AMC. >Another part of the myth proposes that the Kaiser V-8 was designed to be cast >in aluminum and that is credited to their being pioneers in engineering... >Well, maybe, but my guess would be it was designed to be aluminum at least >partly because Kaiser was (and still is) one of the world's largest refiners >and manufacturers of aluminum and its alloys (Boeing is a big Kaiser customer >even today). :) >Now, if this engine has its roots in a prototype Kaiser design, when AMC made >the decision to produce it in iron, it would pretty much have to be >re-engineered or be an even heavyier iron V-8... and at least according to >the >AMC/SAE paper you posted on your site, the AMC engineers were trying to keep >weight down, so the changes made to a Kaiser aluminum block design to make a >'lightweight' iron design would probably be significant enough to keep the >lawyers at bay. >Greg, you propose comparing bellhousing patterns to help determine the >origins >of the Gen I AMC V8... while if they match Hudson or Kaiser patterns, it may >help prove a point, if it is typical Nash/Rambler of that era, it wouldn't >really help to prove much, as this is probably one of the easiest areas >for the >engineers to redesign. > >Paul - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:15:27 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: xj: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? A: I have to get my new car home, and the front spindle is broken (196 aluminum motor!) The truck I called backed out ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:41:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? Don't have the # handy, but have you tried Cheap Tow? It's a Seattle area outfit that uses pickups with slide in wrecker units or 5th wheel wreckers. What vehicle has a 196 aluminum motor? Six or V8? Paul James Blair wrote: > A: I have to get my new car home, and the front spindle is broken (196 > aluminum motor!) The truck I called backed out Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:12:04 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: gearing & tire sizes At 04:37 PM 11/28/00 -0800, Roy Sharp wrote: >http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html > Mike M. I've got the formula if you'd prefer... I also have a spreadsheet format calculated out for several axle ratios already... tire size vs. rpm and speed =($A17*I$4*PI()*60)/(I$3*12*5280) a17 is engine rpm I4 is tire diameter estimated 30.38 for the 31x10.5's... Pi is pi... :) 3.1416 I3 is the gear ratio... in this case 3.07 http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/GEARING/307gears.html http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/GEARING/ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:16:01 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? there is an outfit called cheap tow... they use a cummins turbo Diesel powered dodge pickup with a trailer... very reasonable. haven't used 'em for a while, based out of Montlake Terrace or north Seattle... maybe lynnwood... do a search on 411.com john At 04:15 PM 11/28/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: I have to get my new car home, and the front spindle is broken (196 >aluminum motor!) The truck I called backed out > >************************************* >JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html >************************************** - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:16:20 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: Selectrac Info - 86 jeep let's see if we can sort this out... :) in 2wd High the Jeep acts like the brakes are on... with car jacked up, 4wd hi, ONLY front wheels move. with car jacked up, 4wd hi, rear wheels are free? both? if you spin the left rear does the right rear spin the opposite way? (the driveshaft will not move with an open differential unless one wheel is on the ground) The noises kind of give an indication it's in the transfer case... Unfortunately the NP229 can't be locked in 4wd High or I'd suggest removing the rear driveshaft and seeing it the jeep moves about... you can only do this in 4wd LOW. If you were to disconnect the rear driveshaft, put it in 4wd high and run it that way you would damage the viscous coupler. My guess, with what you've said so far is that the transfer case is the problem. Not the rear end... it sounds like the rear output shaft sheared... I just can't visualize the front wheels turning if the chain were broken... I could be wrong... it could just be the chain, I'd have to study the diagram... and after what I've been through today (network and plotter problems) the last thing I want to do is think. :) I'm forwarding this to some lists. Also take a look at the diagrams at: http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/TRANSFER-CASES/NP229/np229-diagram-mr253.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/TRANSFER-CASES/NP229/ more info at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/TransferCase/ later, john At 06:36 PM 11/28/00 -0500, skiduck-at-peoplepc.com wrote: >John pls e-mail to vacationrentals-at-mail.com >I read your info on the selectrac (np229). Have a problem with my 86 grand >wagoneer. If you can hepl great if not can you direct me. > >Car was driving ok when I went to restart and move it the car acted liked >the brakes were on. Would not move forward or reverse. > >Selector was in 2-wd HI range. >Put car in netural but car can not be moved or pushed. Jacked car up , >four wheels off ground. 2-wd high no movement, 4-wd selection HI front >wheel moves, no back wheels movement.. Note: 4-wd selector lite on dash >not indicating and floor HI-LO selector can not be moved. Get a trashing >sound when you try and move it. > >Letf car in 4-wd drive HI postion and remooved jacks expectong car to move >with front wheels. Same problem car would not move. Note- when car was >raised I could move the rear wheels by hand but notice the drive train was >not moving. > >Do I have a transfer box problem or rear end. Car has 165,000 miles but >looks/runs good. > >BILL > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 03:59:10 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? Try Cheap Tow.......nice fleet of Dodge Rams with 5th wheel tow rigs. :o) Phil - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: xj-at-digest.net, 1FSJ-at-egroups.com, fsj-at-digest.net, john-at-virtual-cafe.com Subject: xj: anyone know of cheap towing in Seattle? Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:15:27 -0800 (PST) A: I have to get my new car home, and the front spindle is broken (196 aluminum motor!) The truck I called backed out ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:49:25 +0800 From: "Salinovich, David (CSC at Alcoa)" Subject: xj: Fender Flare 97 XJ Hi, Whats the best way to put a frount fender flare back onto a 97 xj? Myne had a run into a tree and is hanging in by a bolt. I managed to bend the frame behind it to make it stick but its not the same!.. Is there a offical way/manual? Thanks, Dave Alcoa World Alumina Australia is a trading name of Alcoa of Australia Limited, ACN 004 879 298 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:52:15 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: xj: Bell housing for xfer Case? Yes, saftey first! From a different goof that dropped a Pontiac Grand Am on his head once due to the floor jack slipping while he was under the car. Lucky to be alive! :~) Jeff samfans wrote: > > Just some words from a goof that knocked himself out with Hi-lift jack once ! > And I mean out cold - woke up with a mouthful of driveway gravel ! > > Bill > > Shawn Crull wrote: > > > what, did you suddenly picture me cutting 2x4's into blocks, and using my > > tire changing jack to set up a death match between my garage door and the > > cherokee in reverse 4 low? > > > > 8-) > > > > Shawn. > > > > (and thanks for your concern) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > > samfans > > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 2:32 PM > > To: xj-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: xj: Bell housing for xfer Case? > > > > Just be VERY careful when doing stuff like that - any shortcut's aren't > > worth > > it. Take your time, and if it doesn't "feel" safe don't do it. > > > > Bill > > > > Shawn Crull wrote: > > > > > cool, that's why i asked... thanks... the blocks idea is a good one, and i > > > hadn't even thought of that. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > > > samfans > > > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 7:10 AM > > > To: xj-at-digest.net > > > Subject: Re: xj: Bell housing for xfer Case? > > > > > > To narrow down the sound, block it up safely on blocks and run it, maybe > > > even > > > with someone in it to midulate the brakes against the throttle a bit so > > that > > > you > > > can lie underneath and probe around with a long screwdriver to your ear > > > trying > > > to pinpoint the noise. I always think of differentials when i hear of > > > noises on > > > accel or decel - specificaly pinion bearings and the unibody can cause > > > noises to > > > "travel" in a strange fashion. > > > > > > Have you done all the regular post wheeling maintenance, check and grease > > > everything, pull the diff covers and clean / inspect, fresh gear lube etc. > > > > > > If it's your Xfer case, swapping in a TH350 auto transmission will not > > help > > > at > > > all. I don't know how much work the TH350 swao would be, probably a lot, > > > and > > > prob not required unless you plan other major mods (v8 etc) or it's dirt > > > cheap > > > and you tranny is toast. I'm guessing adapters between engine AND > > transfer > > > case > > > would be required ???? Anyway - it's pretty major work - and not really > > > related > > > to your prob (unless it's the tranny making the sound - but I doubt that) > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Shawn Crull wrote: > > > > > > > Hey guys, I have a problem... I need some > > > > opinions on a wierd sound coming out of my rig since the last time I > > went > > > > wheeling... kind of a low rumbly sound in first gear, that happens > > during > > > > acceleration, but not deceleration, and doesn't matter if it's in 4 or 2 > > > > high or low, and doesn't affect anything except right when I'm starting > > in > > > > first. Comes from right below my center console. I think,(and several > > > > friends think) that it's the xfer case, and I have access to a TH350 > > that > > > > was bulletproofed for a race boat that a friend wrecked, so he doesn't > > > need > > > > it anymore... are the bell housings similar? and if so, does anyone have > > > an > > > > opinion on this? I don't have a clue in this area, and don't even know > > if > > > > he's talking apples to apples here...He seems to think he could make it > > > work > > > > but I need to know if the housings would match up for one, and if it's a > > > > good idea for two. > > > > > > > > Please help. > > > > > > > > Shawn > > > > > > > > 87 xj with np242 right now and automatic I-6 4.0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Lutin > > > > Plunder > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 6:57 PM > > > > To: xj-at-digest.net > > > > Subject: Re: xj: great day for the fest... > > > > > > > > actually John it's my XJ (Rob) Larry is my dad and the > > > > antenna mount is a stock location (on the utility) I > > > > just used a normal mount and a Firestick with spring. > > > > I would of though you'd be more interested in the > > > > remote antenna for my GPS. > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > Rob "Lutin Plunder" Dome; A+, Network+ > > > > 1987 Jeep Cherokee Utility > > > > Dana30-4.0L-BA10/5-NP231-Dana44 > > > > 2" lift in front and 2.5" lift in the rear > > > > > > > > I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake > > > of > > > > another man, nor ask another man to live for mine > > > > - Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand > > > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:52:13 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: how to read the data plate on an NP xfr case At 05:34 PM 11/29/00 -0500, WILLIAM MCHUGH wrote: >John were on the '86 GW casing do you find NP228/229 I looked all over >except the top >Bill vacationrentals-at-mail.com on the back of the transfer case you'll see a round plate, it'll have gear ratio, make, and the model number stamped into it. It'll be covered with road grime, grease and dust... bring a rag... it'll be hard to read. Best angle is to crawl underneath from the driver's side and then look at the back of the xfr case... here's a picture of one: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Pauls-84GW/November24-2000/PB240009.JPG later, john - ---------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.freegift.net/ - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1002 *************************