From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Dec 12 11:54:32 2000 From: xj-digest xj-digest Tuesday, December 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1016 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: AW-4 stuck in first. Re: xj: Re: AW-4 stuck in first. Re: xj: Parts Donor Found/Misc Issues xj: XJ 5-speed ID xj: Re: 4.0L radiator in a 2.8L Re: xj: AW-4 stuck in first. Re: xj: 4.0L radiator in a 2.8L xj: Finally, the locker John has been looking for! xj: Re: Finally, the locker John has been looking for! Re: xj: 4.0L radiator in a 2.8L xj: BC4x4.COM four wheel drive, 4x4, offroad and fourwheeling site. xj: truetrac with a lockup! way cool xj: Front End Parts Re: xj: Re: Finally, the locker John has been looking for! Re: xj: Front End Parts Re: xj: Front End Parts XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:54:34 -0500 (EST) From: Michael A Cummings Subject: Re: xj: Re: AW-4 stuck in first. Yes, the fluid was changed, as was the filter. Being cold and /or low was another guess of mine, but he drove it around for about an hour before he gave up hoping it would shift out of gear. That should be plenty of time for the tranny to warm up, I would think. I forwarded him the directions to checking and changing his TPS, so hopefully he's got somewhere to start. Thanks everyone for the help, so far... mike On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Robert Glover wrote: > From: "Michael A Cummings" > > > A friend of mine has an '87 4.0 Cherokee with the AW-4 trans. > > and about 200,000 mi. The truck worked fine in the morning, but when he > > left work at night, the truck wouldn't shift out of 1st gear. He's > > convinced that the transmission needs to be replaced, but my initial > > thought was that the Transmission control Module. Since this never went > > bad on my rig, I don't even know where it is. Has anyone ever seen this > > happen before, and how did you remedy it? He removed the pan, and doens't > > see any serious problems with the fluid (not burnt) or any other problems. > > If anyone has any input, he's without wheels, and has to commute 100 > > miles each day. > > Since he's had the pan off, I trust he's replaced the fluid and filter? One > common problem that causes odd shifting is low fluid. This happened on my > '96 RAM. In the mornings when cold out, it wouldn't want to shift out of > first gear. Once the tranny and fluid heated up, though, it would work > great. Two quarts of fluid later, it was working just great. > > Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:03:06 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: Re: AW-4 stuck in first. While not exactly what he wants to do, this link contains some info on locating the TCU etc. http://members.tripod.com/BillyXJ/automanual/index.html Michael A Cummings wrote: > Yes, the fluid was changed, as was the filter. Being cold and /or low was > another guess of mine, but he drove it around for about an hour before he > gave up hoping it would shift out of gear. That should be plenty of time > for the tranny to warm up, I would think. I forwarded him the directions > to checking and changing his TPS, so hopefully he's got somewhere to > start. > Thanks everyone for the help, so far... > > mike > > > > On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Robert Glover wrote: > > > From: "Michael A Cummings" > > > > > A friend of mine has an '87 4.0 Cherokee with the AW-4 trans. > > > and about 200,000 mi. The truck worked fine in the morning, but when he > > > left work at night, the truck wouldn't shift out of 1st gear. He's > > > convinced that the transmission needs to be replaced, but my initial > > > thought was that the Transmission control Module. Since this never went > > > bad on my rig, I don't even know where it is. Has anyone ever seen this > > > happen before, and how did you remedy it? He removed the pan, and doens't > > > see any serious problems with the fluid (not burnt) or any other problems. > > > If anyone has any input, he's without wheels, and has to commute 100 > > > miles each day. > > > > Since he's had the pan off, I trust he's replaced the fluid and filter? One > > common problem that causes odd shifting is low fluid. This happened on my > > '96 RAM. In the mornings when cold out, it wouldn't want to shift out of > > first gear. Once the tranny and fluid heated up, though, it would work > > great. Two quarts of fluid later, it was working just great. > > > > Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:55:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Parts Donor Found/Misc Issues Robert Glover wrote: > From: "Paul W." > > '85 Comanche? Funny, they didn't come out until '86. > > Just going by what they told me. Is there an identifying mark on the axle > or anything I can check to verify? No point fooling with it if it doesn't, > especially since odds are probably good that I'd have to redo the gears in > it to match whatever I have in my front axle. Mine doens't even have a > tach; I'll have to order one up. Dana axles have the model number cast in them, usually in the webbing near the diff cover - but easier than trying to find the numbers in the grime is to look at the diff cover's shape. Dana 35 has an oval shaped cover, Dana 44 has a 6-sided cover (and so do Dana 60, 70, 80, etc...), the AMC 20 has a round cover. > > It has probably worn out all its seals. Fresh valve cover & oil pan > > gaskets and front and rear seals will probably go a long way to keeping > > the slick stuff on the inside - instead of the built-in, automatic > > anti-rust program it has now. > > How hard is it to replace the front and rear seals? And can the pan gasket > be changed with the motor in it? (can't be done on an f-body without pulling > the engine) Don't know the specifics on the 2.5L. I can tell you the oil pan will come off my 2.8L without yanking the motor, so I'd think the same could be done on the 2.5L. > > Probably pretty good... but you also stand a good chance of having a > > Peugeot BA-5. If the tranny case splits horizontally, you have the > > French Curse. > > Horizontally... you mean I'd see it just by looking at the "side" of the > trans? (like a clamshell sorta?) Yes. > > What about the AX-5 vs. the T-5? How do you tell those apart? Not quite sure on that pair. I'll see what I can find out though... unless someone beats me to that. :) Paul Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:16:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: xj: XJ 5-speed ID I may have given you bum scoop on ID'ing the BA tranny... but here are some pics and info on _almost_ every tranny ever put in a Jeep: http://www.jeeptech.com/trans/ The pics here of the Peugeot BA-10/5, Borg-Warner T-5 and Aisin-Warner AX-5 should help you ID what you have. Paul > Robert Glover wrote: > > From: "Paul W." > > > Probably pretty good... but you also stand a good chance of having a > > > Peugeot BA-5. If the tranny case splits horizontally, you have the > > > French Curse. > > > > Horizontally... you mean I'd see it just by looking at the "side" of the > > trans? (like a clamshell sorta?) What about the AX-5 vs. the T-5? > > How do you tell those apart? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:58:24 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: Re: 4.0L radiator in a 2.8L Rob, not exactly sure of the outside dimensions, but the 87 will be a closed system and the 86 will have an open system from my observations. It could be made to work most likely, but why would you want to go from a nice open system to the closed? Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Lutin Plunder To: XJ Digest Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 2:00 AM Subject: xj: 4.0L radiator in a 2.8L > Does anyone know if a radiator from a 87 4.0L will fit > in a 86 with the 2.8L (yuck)? My friends GF has a one > core in hers and mine is a 2 core and since I'm > upgrading I thought we'd put the 2 core in hers. > > ===== > Rob "Lutin Plunder" Dome; A+, Network+ > 1987 Jeep Cherokee Utility > Dana30-4.0L-BA10/5-NP231-Dana44 > 2" lift in front and 2.5" lift in the rear > > I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine > - Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:00:33 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: Re: xj: AW-4 stuck in first. So you guys are friends again? ...:) Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 9:08 AM Subject: Re: xj: AW-4 stuck in first. > My friend Andreas recently had the same problem with his '88. He > disconnected the TCU (under dash on passengers side) and it shifts fine > in the manual mode. He then cleaned the connections and I believe it > works again. Something to try anyway. Jeff > > Michael A Cummings wrote: > > > > Hi list, > > > > A friend of mine has an '87 4.0 Cherokee with the AW-4 trans. > > and about 200,000 mi. The truck worked fine in the morning, but when he > > left work at night, the truck wouldn't shift out of 1st gear. He's > > convinced that the transmission needs to be replaced, but my initial > > thought was that the Transmission control Module. Since this never went > > bad on my rig, I don't even know where it is. Has anyone ever seen this > > happen before, and how did you remedy it? He removed the pan, and doens't > > see any serious problems with the fluid (not burnt) or any other problems. > > If anyone has any input, he's without wheels, and has to commute 100 > > miles each day. > > > > Thanks folks, > > mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:11:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: 4.0L radiator in a 2.8L It won't bolt right in... the two have totally different core supports and radiator sizes. The 4.0L rad is wider. I imagine you could get it to work somehow, but if her's isn't overheating, why bother? Paul Lutin Plunder wrote: > Does anyone know if a radiator from a 87 4.0L will fit in a 86 with the 2.8L > (yuck)? My friends GF has a one core in hers and mine is a 2 core and since > I'm upgrading I thought we'd put the 2 core in hers. Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:34:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: xj: Finally, the locker John has been looking for! At this year's SEMA show, Tractech, makers of the Detroit Locker, debuted a working model of their Truetrac-based, electrically operated locking differential. In the unlocked mode, the differential functions exactly like a regular Truetrac, a limited slip differential. When locked, the diff becomes a spool. Because the differential shares the same parts as a Truetrac, it is also has the same limitation: it is only suitable for tires up to 33" in diameter. Even so, this product, which will be released in 2001, will be very popular with many fourwheelers. Initially, this differential will be made for Dana 44 axles. You see pictures of it as well as other cool stuff from the SEMA Show - like the new Teraflex Tera60R high clearance copy of a Dana 60 at: http://www.bc4x4.com/features/2000/sema/sema.asp Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:47:27 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: Finally, the locker John has been looking for! way cool. Any idea of cost? this is much better than going ARB's, hope they do the dana 44 front and Model 20 rear right away... john At 10:34 PM 12/11/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: >At this year's SEMA show, Tractech, makers of the Detroit Locker, debuted a >working model of their Truetrac-based, electrically operated locking >differential. In the unlocked mode, the differential functions exactly like a >regular Truetrac, a limited slip differential. When locked, the diff becomes a >spool. > >Because the differential shares the same parts as a Truetrac, it is also has >the same limitation: it is only suitable for tires up to 33" in diameter. Even >so, this product, which will be released in 2001, will be very popular with >many fourwheelers. Initially, this differential will be made for Dana 44 >axles. > >You see pictures of it as well as other cool stuff from the SEMA Show - like >the new Teraflex Tera60R high clearance copy of a Dana 60 at: > >http://www.bc4x4.com/features/2000/sema/sema.asp >Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. >http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:02:28 -0800 (PST) From: Lutin Plunder Subject: Re: xj: 4.0L radiator in a 2.8L Her's is overheating but if it won't bolt right in (i.e. NO modification) she won't go for it. Guess I'll see if my aunt needs a new one, OR anyone else out there in XJ land. If your interested let me know, I think mine is a 2 core, works perfectly barely gets warm enough to open the thermostat (thinking previous owner put a 190* thermostat in it) ===== Rob "Lutin Plunder" Dome; A+, Network+ 1987 Jeep Cherokee Utility Dana30-4.0L-BA10/5-NP231-Dana44 2" lift in front and 2.5" lift in the rear I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine - Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:07:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: xj: BC4x4.COM four wheel drive, 4x4, offroad and fourwheeling site. A: Just a few snippets to whet your appetites! (the URL is at the bottom) Dana 30 locking hub kits (ooh!) Skyjacker had a visually striking display with their fire engine red Jeep Cherokee and TJ. Both featured their long arm suspension kits. The quality of both kits was top-notch. The longer arms allow for generous amounts of articulation while retaining proper operating angles. The end result is greater wheel travel than kits that utilize stock length arms. Skyjacker's Cherokee long-arm kit. The kit includes significant front-end bracketry that requires no welding. (snip) Chief among them was their new line of replacement seats featuring built-in heaters, a full range of adjustment, and neoprene upholstery. (snip) New to their line of Storage Modules was their TrailMax Consoles. These console were packed with features: slide-out writing board, Power Point DC power plug, multiple storage trails, interior light, locking top, built-in cooler, and a first aid kit. A new addition to their line of products was a heavy duty tire carrier that mounts to the body and tailgate via a unique design. (snip) Bestop's tire carrier consists of multiple hinges which allows it to move with the tailgate, negating the need for a second latching mechanism to open the tire \ (snip) I know this SEMA report has a lot of Jeep-related content but I swear, that's not my fault. For whatever reason, the majority of the vehicle-specific products were for Jeeps. Case in point, Superior Axle & Gear's new Dana 35 axle truss. This bolt-on piece should address any housing flex problems that plague the Dana 35. Addco Industries debuted a very unique product for Jeeps: a remote-controlled sway bar disconnect system. Their ATB (All Terrain Bar) is currently available for 1997 and up Jeep TJ's. Other applications will follow. Superior's bolt-on Dana 35 axle truss. Addco's ATB. The disconnect mechanism is on the right. This close-up shows you how Addco's system works. http://www.bc4x4.com/features/2000/sema/sema.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:37:06 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: truetrac with a lockup! way cool > Here's what we thought was newsworthy: > > Tractech debuted a working model of their Truetrac-based, > electrically operated locking differential. In the unlocked mode, the > differential functions exactly like a regular Truetrac, a limited > slip differential. When locked, the diff becomes a spool. > > Because the differential shares the same parts as a Truetrac, it is > also has the same limitation: it is only suitable for tires up to > 33" in diameter. Even so, this product, which will be released in > 2001, will be very popular with many fourwheelers. Initially, this > differential will be made for Dana 44 axles. Well, that works out nicely. My front axle is a Dana 44, and my rear Model 20 already has the trash lock... So, the only thing that remains is getting the money for the front axle. This is less painful than a pair of ARB's. ;) It'll work nicely... I would guess it'll be less than an ARB. I like my Truetrac in the front of the little wagoneer, it works as advertised, 3.5 years later... :) and no complaints from my wife about it affecting driveability... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:05:33 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: xj: Front End Parts I called the auto parts store last night and got prices on "everything" to do a front end rebuild on my '84 Cherokee: left Outer tie rod 32.18 left inner tie rod 34.42 adjusting sleeve 58.07 Upper Balljoint 55.86 Lower Balljoint 55.98 upper arm bushings 10.55 lower arm bushings 55.86 Trackbar 87.49 drag link/right tie rod 79.24 adjusting sleeve 27.86 Pitman Arm 28.42 Front Brake Rotors 50.57 ea Total $627.07 Actually, come to think of it, I didn't price up wheel bearings or front brake lines. Oh well. Anyay, I'm guessing that the upper and lower arm bushings probably aren't required, but given that it has 204k miles on it, I'm betting the rest of it is. The brakes definitely need it... drove the thing for the firs time yesterday, and YIKES was it scary. The front brakes are so badly warped that it feels like an earthquake, and there is no such thing as "straight ahead." I'll attack the brakes this weekend, but won't get to the rest until after Christmas. My question is this: These are MOOG parts, which I've always liked. Are there any other brands I should consider, particularly for the track bar? BTW, if I get shocks soon (considering Rancho RSX's instead of the RS9000's), will they still work with a 3" lift, or is a "longer" shock needed when lifting? Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:09:34 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: Re: Finally, the locker John has been looking for! There is also a new 'cable' locker coming on the market http://www.oxtrax.com/ Bob At 10:47 PM 12/11/00 -0800, you wrote: >way cool. Any idea of cost? > >this is much better than going ARB's, hope they do >the dana 44 front and Model 20 rear right away... > >john > >At 10:34 PM 12/11/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: >>At this year's SEMA show, Tractech, makers of the Detroit Locker, debuted a >>working model of their Truetrac-based, electrically operated locking >>differential. In the unlocked mode, the differential functions exactly like a >>regular Truetrac, a limited slip differential. When locked, the diff >>becomes a >>spool. >> >>Because the differential shares the same parts as a Truetrac, it is also has >>the same limitation: it is only suitable for tires up to 33" in diameter. >>Even >>so, this product, which will be released in 2001, will be very popular with >>many fourwheelers. Initially, this differential will be made for Dana 44 >>axles. >> >>You see pictures of it as well as other cool stuff from the SEMA Show - like >>the new Teraflex Tera60R high clearance copy of a Dana 60 at: >> >>http://www.bc4x4.com/features/2000/sema/sema.asp >>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. >>http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:17:23 -0600 From: Scott Rozman Subject: Re: xj: Front End Parts Rob- While you are doing this project, consider adding an outer sleeve over the main tie rod (I think you listed this as adjusting sleeve).  Anyway, it can go a long way to preventing a bent tie rod on the trail, especially by the time you start running bigger tires with the lift.  A piece of DOM tubing for this should only cost $10 or so, but if you slide one over, drill a couple of holes and weld through those holes, you'll have a tie rod that should be strong as or stronger than those $100 replacement heavy duty ones.  :-) The welds only really need to be strong enough to prevent the sleeve from spinning when you get on it with a pipe wrench. Jeff Ayers did this and gave me an extra piece to do mine.  I think it is worth the time especially while you have everything apart and easy to work on.  Andreas bought a bunch more tubing and we did this on about another 5 or so XJs here in Madison. Scott Robert Glover wrote: adjusting sleeve 58.07 BTW, if I get shocks soon (considering Rancho RSX's instead of the RS9000's), will they still work with a 3" lift, or is a "longer" shock needed when lifting? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:01:38 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: Front End Parts Not sure where you got prices but at pep boys I got quoted (just did a lot of the same work last weekend but don't remember the exact prices.) ~$21 for rod ends ~$44 for draglink ~$ 39 for ball joints /each And Advanced Auto was also cheaper than all the parts you listed. As far as the wheel bearings they 'technically' come as part of the hub. They can be pressed off and then back on but usually most places replace the hub and bearing at once. But they're pricey $100-200...... Bob At 07:05 AM 12/12/00 -0800, you wrote: >I called the auto parts store last night and got prices on "everything" to >do a front end rebuild on my '84 Cherokee: > >left Outer tie rod 32.18 >left inner tie rod 34.42 >adjusting sleeve 58.07 >Upper Balljoint 55.86 >Lower Balljoint 55.98 >upper arm bushings 10.55 >lower arm bushings 55.86 >Trackbar 87.49 >drag link/right tie rod 79.24 >adjusting sleeve 27.86 >Pitman Arm 28.42 >Front Brake Rotors 50.57 ea > >Total $627.07 > > >Actually, come to think of it, I didn't price up wheel bearings or front >brake lines. Oh well. Anyay, I'm guessing that the upper and lower arm >bushings probably aren't required, but given that it has 204k miles on it, >I'm betting the rest of it is. The brakes definitely need it... drove the >thing for the firs time yesterday, and YIKES was it scary. The front brakes >are so badly warped that it feels like an earthquake, and there is no such >thing as "straight ahead." > >I'll attack the brakes this weekend, but won't get to the rest until after >Christmas. My question is this: These are MOOG parts, which I've always >liked. Are there any other brands I should consider, particularly for the >track bar? > >BTW, if I get shocks soon (considering Rancho RSX's instead of the >RS9000's), will they still work with a 3" lift, or is a "longer" shock >needed when lifting? > >Rob ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1016 *************************