From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 21 13:04:23 2000 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, December 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1025 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? Re: xj: Going Up (Subframes)? Re: xj: Going Up (Subframes)? Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? xj: Scout regrets??? xj: to listers down under... Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? xj: re: upward mobility xj: New to THIS List, lol Re: xj: More humor for the Holidays xj: Land Action Issue - Please read and act! XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:50:51 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? I thought some of the optional factory offerings were 15X8? And I assumed the "optional" wheels were mostly aluminum? What will the difference be between the 7 and 8" wearing a 33x12.5R15? I'm just tired of heavy, ill fitting out of round steel wheels - even though they're bashable. i like the factory alloys. Any other recommendations for Alloys ? Cost is a factor Bill "Paul W." wrote: > I think Aaron is right... I missed the 8" part! > > My alloys were 15x7's. > > Paul > > --- Aaron Storms wrote: > > Bill, aren't the xj factory rims only 7" wide with 5.25" BS? I know some of > > our guys swapped in the Wrangler rims that were 8" wide though. I put the xj > > 5-spoke alloy factory rims on one of my daughter's 89 xj's with 31x10.50 BFG > > muds and don't have any problems. I'm running 8" black steels rims with 4" > > BS on my pseudo milspec xj though and love the stance and handling, but had > > to trim a good deal to stuff without rubbing. Aaron > > > > Aaron Storms > > Black Hawk, CO > > aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: samfans > > To: XJ Digest > > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 7:08 PM > > Subject: xj: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > > > I was just reviewing your axle swap article on outdoorwire and read that > > > you are wearing (or at least were) 33X12.5 on Factory 15X8 alloys with > > > 5.25" BS. Any problems with this, such as rubbing the fenderwell rear > > > or rubbing the spring tower in front or LCA's in front? Did you dial in > > > the steering stops? > > > > > > i ask becasue I need some "actually round" wheels, and like the look, > > > price, and weight of used factory alloys, but am concerned about them > > > fitting well. > > > > > > Bill > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:13:11 EST From: XJGPN-at-aol.com Subject: Re: xj: Going Up (Subframes)? In a message dated 12/20/2000 3:48:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, samfans-at-sprint.ca writes: << XJGPN - can you provide a critique of Borton's long arm setup seen in the first link (the latter version with the "upper" arm welded to the lower arm? I would have used a joint where lower and upper arms connect so that the length of the upper part can be adjusted for length independantly . Otherwise it seems interesting (and rather like the RE TJ longarm kit) Anyone remember why RE said they wouldn't make a longarm kit for the XJ - was it stress on the lower bracket on a unibody? >> I really like Borton's setup. The main thing about a radius arm setup that bothers me is that it adds more stress to the chassis, and that just makes me a little nervous... I'd rather extend the upper control arm mounts and use a four link with long upper control arms. Other than that though the radius arm suspension really is a nice setup. While I see a benifit in adding the joint at the junction of UCA to LCA similiar to what is found on the RE setup for TJ's... I personally think I'd do what borton did and just weld them together... One thing that has always bothered me about the RE radius arm is that it just bothers me having that point that could cause slop between the upper and lower... I know a lot of people with this setup and it doesn't seem to cause any problems anywhere... but it just sticks out to me as something that shouldn't be there. Another thing with Borton's setup is that I'd personally add a gusset between the LCA and UCA. Rusty had a control arm setup similiar to Borton's but using the stock LCA mount on the frame... he ended up breaking one of those arms at tellico. Basically, there is a decent amount of stress at that mounting point between the LCA and UCA and I'd like to see more reinforcement than what borton is using. The size tubing borton used seems a mite on the weak side to me. A lot of people are going overboard with their control arm sizes these days, and I feel that is unnecessary... but at the same time, I do like things a little more stout. On the setup I will be doing I already decided that I will be using 1.5" OD 0.25" wall tubing throughout. That should be strong enough without being too bulky or heavy... and there are a lot of weld in inserts with a 1" OD and a 3/4-16 thread for the use of a 3/4" heim joint. That being said, the tubing borton is using is probably strong enough... but if I were doing it, I'd make it just a bit heavier. Then there is the brace that borton is using. I love the idea, but at the same time I think it would be better off if it was removeable which would make removal of the tranny easier. Overall though I think it is a very well designed setup and all the little criticisms I made are really just nitpicking. Its a great system and it encouraged me to go even more extreme than I was planning with my XJ because I can't let myself be outdone :-) All these damn capable builders are starting to get on my nerves... you really have to work hard to stick out these days! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:14:42 EST From: XJGPN-at-aol.com Subject: Re: xj: Going Up (Subframes)? Oh yeah, forgot to answer this... It's because of the stress on the unibody. RE was afraid that the stock unibody couldn't handle it and they were afraid of making a "bolt on kit" like that because improper installation could really wreak havoc on the longevity of the chassis In a message dated 12/20/2000 3:48:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, samfans-at-sprint.ca writes: << Anyone remember why RE said they wouldn't make a longarm kit for the XJ - was it stress on the lower bracket on a unibody? >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:35:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? samfans wrote: > I thought some of the optional factory offerings were 15X8? AFAIK, only TJ'S got/get the option of a 15x8 rim w/5x4.5" pattern > And I assumed the "optional" wheels were mostly aluminum? yup > What will the difference be between the 7 and 8" wearing a 33x12.5R15? On a 7" you get a little more height -along with a little crowning- and a little less width. Here's some shots that may help give some perspective to 33x12.5x15's on 15x7's: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=937759&a=6970047&p=23506571 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=937759&a=6970047&p=23506599 And here's the same tires on 15x10's (the spare is on a 15x8) http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=937759&a=6858694&p=23080778 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=937759&a=6858694&p=23080313 Keep in mind the big difference in track width is due to axle mods and a 2.25" change in backspacing. > I'm just tired of heavy, ill fitting out of round steel wheels - even though > they're bashable. i like the factory alloys. > > Any other recommendations for Alloys ? > > Cost is a factor Well... you might look into Exploder rims... Paul (went the other way - dumped alloys for bashable steelies ;) Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:32:11 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? "Paul W." wrote: > > > Well... you might look into Exploder rims... Any idea what the factory BS is on the Ford rims? > > > Paul PS - I just spent an entertaining hour going over your vehicular history (nice!) Do you ever regret getting rid of the '80 Scout II Terra (even at 100% profit) ??. I would have thought this would be a dream rig. I sure love the look of it, and have always wanted a Scout, one because people are always swaping HD Scout parts into other rigs and two, because that's what Jack Ryan drove in...what was it...clear and present danger? One of the Tom Clancy thrillers anyway (before he (Clancy) started WAY overdoing it, JMHO) Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: xj: Scout regrets??? samfans wrote: > "Paul W." wrote: >> Well... you might look into Exploder rims... > > Any idea what the factory BS is on the Ford rims? No. > PS - I just spent an entertaining hour going over your vehicular history > (nice!) Do you ever regret getting rid of the '80 Scout II Terra (even at > 100% profit)??. I would have thought this would be a dream rig. I sure > love the look of it, and have always wanted a Scout, I liked the look & ruggedness of it too... that's why I bought it. I knew when I sold it, I would probably end up regretting it. I think the hardest part was watching it leave. I don't really miss it though - not right now anyway. Maybe someday down the line... The reason is I'm not into building a Show & Shine collector and I felt (and still do) the best home for it was with a collector. Someone who would restore it to showroom shape. If I would have kept it, I would have ended up beating the heck out of it - and that's not how I think a sole surviving example of something should be treated. It was one of only four ever made and to the best of anyone in the Scout collecting community's knowledge, it is the only one left. BTW - I did buy a regular Scout II a few months ago for only $350... but it's old enough that it doesn't have a D44 front axle, but a drum braked D30 instead... but the later disc braked D44 does bolt right in... > one because people are always swaping HD Scout parts into other rigs and two, > because that's what Jack Ryan drove in...what was it...clear and present > danger? One of the Tom Clancy thrillers anyway (before he (Clancy) started > WAY overdoing it, JMHO) ... And Selma Hyak (sp?) in a flick a couple years ago. One of the local Scout boys, Pat Decker, has the Scout SS-II Burt Reynolds drove in "Hooper" and he wheels it. http://www.nwbinders.net/MemberRides/PatrickD.html Paul Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:19:07 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: to listers down under... I'm looking at a job with a company from Australia, http://www.opentelecommunications.com/ I'll probably visit with them next week in their location up here in Washington state. They're running Solaris and looking for an Admin... :) Who knows, this might be an opportunity to visit. They also have an office in Nederland... I should be so lucky... ;) I'm interested in finding out exactly what "boiling the billy" is all about. :) Please let me know off list what you think of them and if I should run: away fast, slow or towards them. :) later, john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX/ http://wagoneers.com/UNIX/Courses.html http://wagoneers.com/pages/ComputerSurvival-101.html UNIX is user-friendly; it's just picky about who its friends are. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.freegift.net/ http://www.wagoneers.com/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:00:39 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? Bill, just locate some factory Wrangler alloys as they'll be 8" wide and will be perfect for your 33x12.50 muds. Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: samfans To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Re: xj: Re: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? > I thought some of the optional factory offerings were 15X8? And I assumed the > "optional" wheels were mostly aluminum? What will the difference be between the > 7 and 8" wearing a 33x12.5R15? > > I'm just tired of heavy, ill fitting out of round steel wheels - even though > they're bashable. i like the factory alloys. > > Any other recommendations for Alloys ? > > Cost is a factor > > Bill > > "Paul W." wrote: > > > I think Aaron is right... I missed the 8" part! > > > > My alloys were 15x7's. > > > > Paul > > > > --- Aaron Storms wrote: > > > Bill, aren't the xj factory rims only 7" wide with 5.25" BS? I know some of > > > our guys swapped in the Wrangler rims that were 8" wide though. I put the xj > > > 5-spoke alloy factory rims on one of my daughter's 89 xj's with 31x10.50 BFG > > > muds and don't have any problems. I'm running 8" black steels rims with 4" > > > BS on my pseudo milspec xj though and love the stance and handling, but had > > > to trim a good deal to stuff without rubbing. Aaron > > > > > > Aaron Storms > > > Black Hawk, CO > > > aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: samfans > > > To: XJ Digest > > > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 7:08 PM > > > Subject: xj: Paul - tire/wheel combo ? > > > > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > > > > > I was just reviewing your axle swap article on outdoorwire and read that > > > > you are wearing (or at least were) 33X12.5 on Factory 15X8 alloys with > > > > 5.25" BS. Any problems with this, such as rubbing the fenderwell rear > > > > or rubbing the spring tower in front or LCA's in front? Did you dial in > > > > the steering stops? > > > > > > > > i ask becasue I need some "actually round" wheels, and like the look, > > > > price, and weight of used factory alloys, but am concerned about them > > > > fitting well. > > > > > > > > Bill > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:28:00 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: re: upward mobility Whit, why not expend the effort on your FSJ? :) it's already got a frame... and you could probably put 35's on it without much more than a set of add-a-leafs... ;) Did you ever get your tranny fixed? How'd the 5.9L swap go in your ZJ? I'm still trying to find time to remove the rear speakers from the little wagoneer and install the Howell TBI kit on my J10... of course I've also got a stuck injector on my 300SD and a bunch of other projects around the house... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:52:00 -0800 From: Mike G Subject: xj: New to THIS List, lol Ok, well let me introduce myself, I'm owned by a 1989 Jeep Cherokee, lifted 6" in the front and saggy butt, lol, rear end at 4.5" thanks to Rusty's Off-Road. I'm in Southern California, and most of you might know me from the XJ-List on off-road.com or socalxj.com. I've been on those lists for years. Just heard about this. Just what I need, MORE EMAIL! I get 200 a day as is. What's the traffic like on this list? BTW, if you want to see information on my Jeep, visit my site www.mike-g.net. - -- Mike Gagos mike-g-at-mike-g.net http://www.mike-g.net/ ICQ: 1734225 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:48:37 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: xj: More humor for the Holidays It took me awhile to finally read this, but it sure made me chuckle! Jeff Ziemianski wrote: > > Got this from another list,seems to be approprate this time of year. > Unless you shop by mail. > > From: kevin > To: Oregon BushHackers > Subject: [obh] OT: parking lot rules > Date: Saturday, December 16, 2000 9:17 AM > > > Rule No. 1: When waiting for a parking spot, stop in the middle of the > road, don't signal, and orient your car diagonally to prevent others from > passing. > > Rule No. 2: Always park on the lines, taking up as many spots as possible. > Diagonal parking is preferred. > > Rule No. 3: In a crowded parking lot, if you find a spot and have the > opportunity to pull through to an adjacent one, drive up halfway and stop > on the line, taking both. > > Rule No. 4: As you pull into a spot, if you see that the space ahead of you > is empty and you see another driver signaling to take it, pull though and > take it from him. > > Rule No. 5: Always park close enough to the adjacent car so that the other > driver must grease up with Vaseline to squeeze into his or her car. > > Rule No. 6: When getting out of your car, hit the adjacent vehicle with > your door really hard. > > Rule No. 7: When driving through the parking lot, ignore the painted lanes > and drive diagonally from one end to another at a high rate of speed. > > Rule No. 8: When stopped in front of a store and waiting for a > friend/relative to make a purchase, make sure that you are stopped in the > middle of the road. The same rule applies to picking up and discharging > passengers. > > Rule No. 9: When a vehicle from the opposite direction is signaling and > waiting for a parking space, position your car so that you are in his way > and let the car behind you take it. > > Rule No. 10: If you have handicapped license plates, use up a regular > parking spot. > > Rule No. 11: If you hit the adjacent car with your door and leave a dent, > wait for a car, which is painted the same color as yours, to drive down the > aisle looking for a place to park. Then back out, giving up your spot like > "Mr. Good Guy," and park somewhere else. > > Rule No. 12: If the vehicle in front of you stops to let a pedestrian cross > or another vehicle turn, pull into the lane of opposite traffic and attempt > to pass him. > > Rule No. 13: When exiting a shopping center into a busy road, exit through > the narrow "ENTER ONLY" driveway, stick the nose of the car into traffic, > and wait. > > Rule No. 14: When driving through a parking lot with alternating one-way > aisles and angled parking spots, drive the wrong way. Then when you see a > parking space, take 20 minutes to do a 12-point turn to pull into it. > > Rule No. 15: Always leave your shopping cart behind or tightly between > parked vehicles. > > Rule No. 16: Empty your ashtrays on the ground in shopping center parking > lots. While you're at it, dump out all the garbage, too, including that > Wendy's or McDonald's bag sitting in the back seat from breakfast. > > Rule No. 17: If you are forced to change an infant's diaper in a parking > lot, leave the soiled diaper under the car next to you. > > Rule No. 18: When another vehicle is waiting for you to pull out of a spot > in a crowded parking lot, take your time. Adjust the mirrors, your seat, > and the radio. Roll down your window, light a cigarette, and eat your > lunch. Feel free to go through your shopping bags and look at what you just > bought. > > Rule No. 19: When pulling into a parking spot, if there is a shopping cart > in the way, lightly tap it with your bumper and send it rolling into > another car. Then, when you step out, if the cart is still too close, push > it down the parking lot aisle and let it go. While the cart is flying solo, > turn around and walk toward the stores. > > Rule No. 20: When walking back to your car in a busy shopping center, > gesture to other drivers waiting for a spot to make them think that you are > getting in the car and leaving. Then walk between the cars to the next > aisle and do it again. > > Rule No. 21: When shopping at the mall, which requires you to load your > bags into the car and go back in to do more shopping, do NOT tell the > driver who is sitting patiently watching you load your car and signaling > for your spot. > > Rule No. 22: When walking back to your car, if you notice other shoppers > walking past your car to get to theirs, press the buttons on your key chain > remote so that your car's alarm makes a sudden loud "BLOOP BLEEP" that > scares the begeebers out of them. > > Rule No. 23: If you don't see a speed limit sign posted in the mall's > parking lot, there isn't any! > > Rule No. 24: If you back into a parked car, and the driver isn't with it, > take out a piece of paper and start writing. This is especially effective > if there are 15-20 witnesses. On a piece of paper write, "There were ___ > witnesses when I hit your car. They think I'm writing my name, address, and > phone number." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:35:11 -0000 From: "Robert Bubala" Subject: xj: Land Action Issue - Please read and act! LAND GRABBER JOHN TURNER being considered by BUSH for SECRETARY OF INTERIOR, or other Interior Department post!!!!!! ***IMMEDIATE ACTION NECESSARY!!!!!!***SEE BELOW*** We have received several hundred emails in just one day in response to our request for Bush Administration appointments. There are many GOOD PEOPLE out there who believe in private property rights and multiple use of federal lands who belong in the executive branch. We'll have a comprehensive update and list in the next couple of days to share and ask for more input. Right now however, there is a disaster in the making that needs to be derailed IMMEDIATELY!!! We hit a hornets nest when we sent out the name John Turner as an example of Someone who SHOULD NOT be appointed to any position of power in the Interior Department. We had no idea so many people knew about John Turner nationally. We did not know that Turner has a real shot at being Secretary of the Interior. He may be Under Secretary or the Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife and Parks. Any of those positions would put him in charge of the National Park Service and US Fish and Wildlife Service. Turner in any those jobs would be a disaster for landowners, ranchers, miners, forestry advocates, inholders, snowmobilers, recreationists and other users of the Federal lands. It would be a nightmare for anyone facing enforcement of the Endangered Species Act. It would be a slap in the face for many Bush supporters. Does the Transition Team really KNOW the background of John Turner? Because VP Dick Cheney is from Wyoming, many of the people on the transition team have ties to Wyoming. Turner is a personal friend of the Vice President. Wyoming is a great state that has a relatively small population. It is like a terrific small town. Some of us know John Turner. He's a nice guy. His mother, brother and family ranch are inholders in Grand Teton National Park. His mother has even been a member of the American Land Rights Association. But John Turner has been very careful NOT to do his extreme Conservation Fund activities in Wyoming. So most people in Wyoming don't really know how he used the Conservation Fund for massive land acquisition across the country and to help the Park Service, Fish and Wildlife Service and other land acquisition agencies to convert private land into government land, undermining freedom in America. John Turner has never "done a deal" or accomplished a land exchange in his own backyard of Wyoming that we know of. He knows better than to play the Conservation Fund scam on his own neighbors and friends. He knows how much Wyoming land owners do not want MORE GOVERNMENT or controls placed on their lands and rights. He knows he would not dare risk such stuff as conservation easements, private lands leveraged exchanges and outright acquisitions of private lands in Wyoming. He knows to do such things would jeopardize his political influence in Wyoming. That would hurt is power nationally. This E-mail is not about personality...it is about who is RIGHT for the job of Secretary of the Interior. It is about who is going to carry out George W. Bush's vision for America. It is about whether you voted for George W. Bush only to have him put the same kind of people in charge of taking your land that you've had to fight off during the Clinton-Gore Administration. John Turner as President and CEO of the Conservation Fund represents top down, command and control land use planning Federal big government. He fits the Clinton-Gore mold. He does not fit in a Bush-Cheney Administration. The Conservation Fund is a massive foundation funded land trust that exemplifies the most threatening of all organizations in America today..a WOLF in SHEEP's clothing. The name sounds good, the leadership is likeable but they leave net gains in federal lands, reserves, preserves, wildlands, wilderness, parks and refuges in their path. They leave a lot of broken towns, damaged schools, and destroyed tax bases in their wake. And they encourage increases in Federal regulations and red tape. They are the enemy of rural America. John Turner supported CARA, the Condemnation and Relocation Act. Remember CARA and you have described the way the Conservation Fund works. John Turner and the Conservation Fund SUPPORT conservation easements which undermine private land ownership and the local tax base. They love Federal land acquisition funded by the Land and Water Conservation Fund. Big oil, gas and minerals money goes into this FUND to support land exchanges, acquisitions and conservation easements. Looks good...SMELLS BAD. The Conservation Fund brags about "retiring" grazing permits and buying private timberland, working deals to buy huge amounts of private land and conservation easements, most often turning vast amounts of acreage over to government ownership. Never mind the lost jobs and damaged communities. The Conservation Fund has systematically acquired millions of acres of private land through donations, exchanges and purchase for the US Government. The Conservation fund often operates in stealth, just like the Rockefellers did when they secretly purchased most of what is now Grand Teton National Park from ranchers having no idea they were endangering their lifestyle. Now John Turner uses Rockefeller money to do the same thing in other national parks, wildlife refuges and natural areas all over America. He is working right now to convert 26 million acres of the Northern Forests of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and New York into Federal ownership and control. WHERE were you when John Turner was the Director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service from 1988 to 1993? This is when the Endangered Species Act and Spotted Owl controversy took hold and the precedents were set under the US Fish and Wildlife Service. This is when tens of thousands of rural residents lost their jobs. This is when the dominos began to fall for the Endangered Species Act and rural America. The Conservation Fund has received millions of dollars of tax deductible contributions from oil, gas and minerals companies that then donate their abandoned or excess properties to the Conservation Fund in order to be used to leverage HUGE government land exchanges. The result is always less private land, more government land. The Conservation Fund was started by Pat Noonan who founded and led the Nature Conservancy to national prominence. The Conservation Fund has worked quietly with the Land Trust Alliance and other organizations to teach thousands of people how to take your land and convert it to government ownership. There is no way for us the list all the examples people sent us about the Conservation Fund and John Turner. The bottom line is he represents the exact opposite of the type of person who should be running any aspect of the Interior Department. WHAT YOU MUST DO QUICKLY!! - - -----Call your both your Senators to stop Turner from being confirmed by the Senate. Any Senator may be reached at (202) 224-3121. When you call, ask for his or her fax number. Ask them to call the Bush-Cheney Transition Team in opposition to Turner. - -----Send us by fax or E-mail a request for the "NO Turner, NO Land Grab" poster. MAKE SURE TO SEND YOUR FAX NUMBER. We'll fax it to you. You can then FAX IT TO YOUR SENATOR. - - -----Fax a copy of the poster to Senators Craig Thomas (R-WY) FAX - (202)224-1724 or Wyoming FAX (307) 638-3512 and Mike Enzi (R-WY) FAX - (202)228-0359 or Wyoming FAX (307) 772-2480. - - -----Call any Wyoming friends to urge them to contact the Transition Team about Turner. - - -----Send an E-mail with your opinion to the Bush-Cheney Transition team at: Advice-at-BushCheneyTransition.com - - -----Write a note or letter to: Bush-Cheney Presidential Transition Foundation, Inc. 1616 Anderson Rd, McLean, VA 22102. - - -----Send an E-mail to American Land Rights information about good people who should be appointed to the Bush-Cheney Administration and those who should not. Try to give us more than just their names. A little specific background is helpful. Send us your resume if you wish to join the Administration. Be sure to send it to the address above also. - - -----Forward this message to at least five other people. Your whole list if possible. Thanks Robert Bubala Iron Horse 4x4s, Inc. http://home.off-road.com/~iron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1025 *************************