From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jan 5 00:07:00 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, January 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1046 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Safety Class? xj: Re: cheap SYE? Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post xj: Re: Ebay xj: been thinkin' Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post Re: xj: been thinkin' Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post xj: jim's scrap metal xj: more thinkin' (engine specs) xj: military craft shops... xj: spring BC adventures? xj: trail damage - insurance xj: insurance XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:39:13 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: Safety Class? Prices at my old base were about the same as the ones at yours. Same goes for all of the endorsements on the card and the seminars. The rates on our bays were pretty lame, done in 15 minutes increments. In the situation I had mentioned before I had pulled in, got a bay, pulled into the bay, went to the parts counter to get tools, found out 15 minutes later that they didn't have the right tools (correct size drill for the 1/2" drive drill bits) and still was charged for 15 minutes of rental on the bay! I didn't even USE it! Oh well, it cost me like $0.75 for that 15 minutes. I know it's not a whopping amount of money, but it's pretty lame to be charged for MY time on it. Phil - ----Original Message Follows---- From: samfans Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: Safety Class? Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:15:47 -0400 We have a slightly different system - your membership card has a list on the back of the major items: Welder, torch, tire balancer, etc. and the first time you use it you get a demo / lesson, and your card gets endorsed. They actually also put on seminars, and classes for spouses in basic repair and stuff. PLus there's a parts store in-house with basic stuff, and discounts from local merchants. We're also building an extension for 3 new bodywork bays and a downdraft paint booth, plus we're trying to build a machine shop - if the Navy will fork over an old ships lathe !! Trouble is - rates have gone up to pay for it. Hoist is $6/hr, bay is $4/hr and even a bench is $2/hr. Used to be 2 for a bay and 4 for a hoist. Bill _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:56:42 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: Re: cheap SYE? Bob, if Bayou Geep in LA doesn't carry them anymore, contact my Denver XJ friend JohnJohn who owns BigOff-Road 4x4 parts online and gets some pretty good group deals sometimes on different parts. johnjohn-at-bigoffroad.com should get to him. Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Mock To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: xj: cheap SYE? > about a month ago there was a shop selling a SYE somewhere in the $200 > range. anyone have that link? and is the offer still good? > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:51:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post Cool. (It's OK to visit Lurkin' Rob, our VI resident, too ;) Paul samfans wrote: > My folks are in Port Alberni, Vancouver Island. I may visit in the spring - > we'll see. > > "Paul W." wrote: > > Bill - If you ever go out west to visit your Dad & Mum, you'll have to > > save a little time for a quick trip south of the border and visit some > > of the WA listers. What part of BC do your parents live in? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:26:10 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post And your CO buddy too...:) Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul W. To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 9:51 PM Subject: Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post > Cool. (It's OK to visit Lurkin' Rob, our VI resident, too ;) > > Paul > > > samfans wrote: > > My folks are in Port Alberni, Vancouver Island. I may visit in the spring - > > we'll see. > > > > "Paul W." wrote: > > > Bill - If you ever go out west to visit your Dad & Mum, you'll have to > > > save a little time for a quick trip south of the border and visit some > > > of the WA listers. What part of BC do your parents live in? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:00:56 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: Ebay already have this one... it's not terribly descriptive but does show some great illustrations. :) john At 09:38 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Michael Baxter wrote: >Please pass this along to the list if you're not interested: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=536179007 >&r= 0&t=0 > > > Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter > From Reno, NV USA on 04-Jan-2001 - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:42:11 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: been thinkin' been thinkin', I know, I know, my boss, my wife, my friends, they all discourage it, but hey... a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do... anywho. superdawg. engine. transmission. transfer case. Diesel? thinkin' about a 3.0L Mercedes Turbo Diesel as I drove back from Seattle tonight in the 300SD... With over 42 gallons of fuel, even at 20 mpg I'd go a long, long way. Considering my J10 has taller gears and only weighs about 300 lbs or so more than the 300SD I might even see mileage up in the 26 to 28 mpg range... that would give me a range of about 1176 miles! Ok, here comes the questions. 1) how in the world do I connect a Mercedes turbo Diesel to ANY transmission that will bolt up to my transfer case or ANY xfr case???? a) use my T-5? then I'd have to find a flywheel for the 3.0L TD. (doesn't solve the problem with my left leg/lower back... :( b) use the MBz 4speed automatic? How do I mate THAT to ANY xfr case? divorced case? which ones would work to replace an NP208??? c) use an Aisin Warner 4speed auto? Where do I find an adapter to mate engine/trans??? might not be that hard... but will the torque converter from the Aisin Warner mate to the Benz flex plate? Oh, drat, how would one solve the computer problems??? A manual box, but that could risk burning it up by accident... :( Ideas, suggestions? This is just thinkin' now... :) Other thoughts include an '89 Ford 302 with Fuel injection, complete engine/ trans, etc. $1,500... Question is how hard to convert a Ford AT to work with a transfer case? advance adapter tail shaft for more than we care to think? divorced case? (need to learn more about these mythical beasts... ;) Still thinking about whit's old 5.2L V8... haven't had time to check on a rebuild... would still need to figure out which tranny to use... Rebuilding anything doesn't excite me right now... however, ...then there is always the harebrained idea of having my 4.2L rebuilt and putting a 4.0L head on it, use the 4.0L distr and so on... and an Aisin Warner. The 1983 4.2L was the same compression ratio, 9.2:1 as the 4.0L, same basic block from what I can gather from the factory manual that has the 4.0/4.2 in the same book! :) (more engine specs under separate email... ) So, here I sit, thinkin'... how do I want to go about this? :) No hurry, always a good position to be in when doing something like this. :) Actually had a call on the 300SD this morning. The ad started in the Seattle papers today... Mixed emotions on selling it... I need the money to extend my garage and do the engine swap... but it sure is a nice car... :( But, when it comes down to it. I'd rather have my J10 than a Mercedes... You know one things I dislike most about the Mercedes is that climate control setup... what a Rube Goldberg setup that is. I drove the little wagoneer into town at lunch, we adjusted the heater where we wanted it and never touched it again... went to Seattle in the Benz and I was constantly having to fiddle with the settings to get it comfortable... almost took out a section of guardrail on 520... ;) HEY, that would have solved TWO out of three of my problems. :) It would have provided an engine for SuperDawg and would have paid off the Benz... the only problem it wouldn't solve is the insurance issue... I'm FINALLY out of the woods from hitting that tree over three years ago! sorry for going so long... but I've been thinkin'. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:55:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post If he drives across (gas is probably cheaper here in the US - I know it is cheaper here in WA than it is in BC) visiting all the listers interested in meeting him would be cool. But if he flies, CO is a bit of a haul from Vancouver Island, BC (VI) Paul Aaron Storms wrote: > And your CO buddy too...:) Aaron > > Aaron Storms > Black Hawk, CO > aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul W. > > > Cool. (It's OK to visit Lurkin' Rob, our VI resident, too ;) > > > > Paul > > > > > > samfans wrote: > > > My folks are in Port Alberni, Vancouver Island. I may visit in the > > > spring - we'll see. > > > > > > "Paul W." wrote: > > > > Bill - If you ever go out west to visit your Dad & Mum, you'll have to > > > > save a little time for a quick trip south of the border and visit some > > > > of the WA listers. What part of BC do your parents live in? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:57:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: been thinkin' Use the MB engine and trans and a Ford NP205 divorced t-case. Pretty simple actually - no adapters needed, just driveshafts. Paul - --- john wrote: > been thinkin', I know, I know, my boss, my wife, my friends, > they all discourage it, but hey... a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do... > > anywho. > > superdawg. > engine. > transmission. > transfer case. > Diesel? > > thinkin' about a 3.0L Mercedes Turbo Diesel as I drove back from Seattle > tonight in the 300SD... With over 42 gallons of fuel, even at 20 mpg I'd > go a long, long way. Considering my J10 has taller gears and only weighs > about 300 lbs or so more than the 300SD I might even see mileage up in the > 26 to 28 mpg range... that would give me a range of about 1176 miles! > > Ok, here comes the questions. > > 1) how in the world do I connect a Mercedes turbo Diesel to ANY transmission > that will bolt up to my transfer case or ANY xfr case???? > > a) use my T-5? then I'd have to find a flywheel for the 3.0L TD. > (doesn't solve the problem with my left leg/lower back... :( > b) use the MBz 4speed automatic? How do I mate THAT to ANY xfr case? > divorced case? which ones would work to replace an NP208??? > c) use an Aisin Warner 4speed auto? Where do I find an adapter to mate > engine/trans??? might not be that hard... but will the torque > converter > from the Aisin Warner mate to the Benz flex plate? Oh, drat, how > would one solve the computer problems??? A manual box, but that could > risk burning it up by accident... :( > > Ideas, suggestions? > > This is just thinkin' now... :) > > Other thoughts include an '89 Ford 302 with Fuel injection, complete engine/ > trans, etc. $1,500... Question is how hard to convert a Ford AT to work > with a transfer case? advance adapter tail shaft for more than we care to > think? > divorced case? (need to learn more about these mythical beasts... ;) > > Still thinking about whit's old 5.2L V8... haven't had time to check on > a rebuild... would still need to figure out which tranny to use... > Rebuilding > anything doesn't excite me right now... however, > > ...then there is always the harebrained idea of having my 4.2L rebuilt and > putting a 4.0L head on it, use the 4.0L distr and so on... and an Aisin > Warner. > > The 1983 4.2L was the same compression ratio, 9.2:1 as the 4.0L, same basic > block from what I can gather from the factory manual that has the 4.0/4.2 in > the same book! :) (more engine specs under separate email... ) > > So, here I sit, thinkin'... how do I want to go about this? :) No hurry, > always a good position to be in when doing something like this. :) > > Actually had a call on the 300SD this morning. The ad started in the Seattle > papers today... Mixed emotions on selling it... I need the money to extend > my garage and do the engine swap... but it sure is a nice car... :( But, > when it comes down to it. I'd rather have my J10 than a Mercedes... > > You know one things I dislike most about the Mercedes is that climate control > setup... what a Rube Goldberg setup that is. I drove the little wagoneer > into > town at lunch, we adjusted the heater where we wanted it and never touched it > again... went to Seattle in the Benz and I was constantly having to fiddle > with > the settings to get it comfortable... almost took out a section of guardrail > on 520... ;) HEY, that would have solved TWO out of three of my problems. > :) > It would have provided an engine for SuperDawg and would have paid off the > Benz... the only problem it wouldn't solve is the insurance issue... I'm > FINALLY > out of the woods from hitting that tree over three years ago! > > sorry for going so long... but I've been thinkin'. ;) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:24:02 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post Yeah, but I'd show him a good time here! And you guys too if you ever can leave the damp climate long enough...:) I'm planning on spending a few days at the EJS in Moab in a few months - any of you guys going to make it? Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul W. To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 11:55 PM Subject: Re: xj: A funny, personal, OT post > If he drives across (gas is probably cheaper here in the US - I know it is > cheaper here in WA than it is in BC) visiting all the listers interested in > meeting him would be cool. But if he flies, CO is a bit of a haul from > Vancouver Island, BC (VI) > > Paul > > > Aaron Storms wrote: > > And your CO buddy too...:) Aaron > > > > Aaron Storms > > Black Hawk, CO > > aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul W. > > > > > Cool. (It's OK to visit Lurkin' Rob, our VI resident, too ;) > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > samfans wrote: > > > > My folks are in Port Alberni, Vancouver Island. I may visit in the > > > > spring - we'll see. > > > > > > > > "Paul W." wrote: > > > > > Bill - If you ever go out west to visit your Dad & Mum, you'll have to > > > > > save a little time for a quick trip south of the border and visit some > > > > > of the WA listers. What part of BC do your parents live in? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:14:16 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: jim's scrap metal Jim, exactly where have you been the last few days??? ;) http://digitalcity.netscape.com/seattle/news/article.dci?article=685187 - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:10:43 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: more thinkin' (engine specs) figured this info deserved it's own page. :) year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm - ---------------------------------------------------- 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- current 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 <-- the benz 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp -at- 3,700 - 245 ft lbs -at- 1,600 <-- Old Blue 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp -at- 4,500 - 224 ft lbs -at- 2,500 <-- little wag 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp -at- 4,750 - 225 ft lbs -at- 4,000 <-- first choice ??? 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp -at- 4,400 - 300 ft lbs -at- 3,200 <-- whit's motor 97 - ZJ 4.0L - 185 hp -at- 4,600 - 220 ft lbs -at- 2,400 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp -at- 4,400 - 320 ft lbs -at- 2,800 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp -at- 3,600 - 240 ft lbs -at- 2,000 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp -at- 4,000 - 300 ft lbs -at- 2,800 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp -at- 3,400 - 270 ft lbs -at- 2,400 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp -at- 4,400 - 97 ft lbs -at- 2,400 :) other possibilities... (not) 92 - lawnmower - 5 hp -at- 2,500 - 3 ft lbs -at- 2,500 ;) 98 - Dan's truck- 850 hp -at- 1,500 - 1500 ft lbs -at- 1,000 or somethin' like that... The other variable is fuel economy, and then there is longevity, durability, cost to acquire and the small problem of making it fit in the hole. :) This is the fun part... thinking of the possibilities... I think the Mercedes Turbo Diesel would be pretty cool... transmission connection is the biggest issue... :( any ideas? john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:18:03 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: military craft shops... >And lastly, I don't miss the almost-nonexistent pay. >Rob >(USAF 1987-1991) pay? you mean they PAID you? ;) The guy at the hobby shop or craft shop or whatever it was called actually saved me a bunch of money. I had good experiences in Germany at the shops... but in the early to mid-70's it was "all volunteer" so things might have been better back then... I was in from '74 until '82. (since I was in the Army I was able to make it to E-6, so the pay was almost enough to live on. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:26:35 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: spring BC adventures? >From: samfans >My folks are in Port Alberni, Vancouver Island. I may visit in the spring >- we'll >see. should I make plans for a Snohomish Jeep fest then? ;) Only a few hours south of Vancouver... Lots of XJ types in the area that know how to get here. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:29:42 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: trail damage - insurance >From: "Paul W." >Subject: Re: xj: Insuring Lifted Vehicles >I've also had good luck with State Farm. Their rates (for me anyway) have >been >pretty competitive, though you can find it cheaper. One thing I liked is they >will cover you for trail damage, too - as long as you aren't in a competitive >event. >Paul I was with State Farm back in the 70's, I've always been able to better since... BUT, if I'm not mistaken, any insurance company will cover trail damage because in Washington state the "trail" is technically a road, right? (aren't you the one that told me that??? ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:24:54 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: insurance >Subject: xj: Insuring Lifted Vehicles >When I called yesterday to have my "new" '84 XJ added to my car insurance >policy (I'm with Nationwide), I got lectured by the lady when I told her I >might put a lift on it at some point. She said that Nationwide will NOT >insure any vehicle that has been lifted due to safety reasons, blah, blah, >blah. I didn't bother arguing with her and just said, "okay, so it won't >get a lift." Of course, I was lying through my teeth. >'Course, she also told me that they count moving violations for FIVE YEARS, >as opposed to the three that they appear on your license. Talk about a load >of crap. And I have two dropping off by the time my policy expires in May. >What it really means is that in five months when this policy is up for >renewal, I'll be looking for a new company. Anybody have any >recommendations on more accomodating ones? I've already been with >Progressive and didn't like them (they will surcharge you for comp claims). >Rob without teenagers - National Merit with teenagers but no trees - Pemco with teenagers, with trees - Hartford (through Washington Mutual bank) Pemco was very good, but they upped my rates about $400 a year when I totalled the little wagoneer. Hartford saved me some over Pemco, and still beats Liberty Mutual, even after the three years. Another company that used to be good was Prefered Risk, haven't heard about them in years though. I'll be doing a study on this as my policy renews in February. The Alumni Association from the University of Maryland sent me some insurance stuff... need to call and check rates... Oh, Pemco actually paid me MORE money on the total of my XJ because of the Old Man Emu lift kit!!! None of the companies I mentioned asked or cared about lifts, bigger tires, etc. EXCEPT to add a surcharge in case of a total loss. Pemco listed my Aussie Bull Bar and the IPF lights after I rebuilt and reinsured, I think the surcharge was quite minimal, but it did add coverage to some very expensive accessories. If you're ticket free, have a vehicle that's less than 10 years old and over 25 National Merit could save you a bunch of bucks. Pemco is the next good deal... but Liberty Mutual seems to be competing... Hartford has been ok, and I'm still going to check with Geico... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1046 *************************