From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jan 16 13:55:20 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, January 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1054 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: pulley kit xj: 2.5L Woes Re: xj: 2.5L Woes Re: xj: 2.5L Woes Re: xj: 2.5L Woes Re: xj: 2.5L Woes Re: xj: Injectors and bad gas? xj: fuel costs Re: xj: front drive question Re: xj: Best block Re: xj: 2.5L Woes Re: xj: 2.5L Woes xj: administrivia: notes on using this list XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:08:18 -0800 (PST) From: mark jones Subject: xj: pulley kit Does anybody know who makes a high performance pulley kit for an '88 xj 4.0? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:28:31 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: xj: 2.5L Woes Please excuse me if this sounds a little whiney, but I'm frustrated and disgusted with this POS '84 I bought. The thing hasn't run since I put a new valvecover gasket on it. It won't start. It's getting gas, but no spark. I've replaced everything in the ignition system except the distributor. I'm told that the distributor likely isn't the problem, so I haven't ordered one yet. I spent an afternoon cleaning electrical connectors and tracing vacuum lines and testing for electrical signals, and haven't found any problems yet. I don't recall seeing a fuse that affects the distributor either... The other problem is that nobody seems to know anything about this motor. Not here, not on jeepsunlimited.com, nowhere. I get the impression that everybody is knowledgeable about all the latest off-road equipment, but mechanically, forget it. Does anybody know of any mechanically-oriented mailing lists where I can seek assistance? I can't even take it someplace (were I motivated to do so) since it doesn't run. It's not worth the trouble to have towed. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:36:41 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: 2.5L Woes You said you replaced everything....does that include a coil? mine went out and had the same symptoms. Also, is there any sort of TDC sensor or CPS sensor? if it doesn't know there TDC is then it won't fire. Those came to mind of the top of my head but I'll keep thinking....... I assume the cap and rotor were replaced...?..?.. Bob At 08:28 AM 1/9/01 -0800, you wrote: >Please excuse me if this sounds a little whiney, but I'm frustrated and >disgusted with this POS '84 I bought. The thing hasn't run since I put a >new valvecover gasket on it. It won't start. It's getting gas, but no >spark. I've replaced everything in the ignition system except the >distributor. I'm told that the distributor likely isn't the problem, so I >haven't ordered one yet. I spent an afternoon cleaning electrical >connectors and tracing vacuum lines and testing for electrical signals, and >haven't found any problems yet. I don't recall seeing a fuse that affects >the distributor either... > >The other problem is that nobody seems to know anything about this motor. >Not here, not on jeepsunlimited.com, nowhere. I get the impression that >everybody is knowledgeable about all the latest off-road equipment, but >mechanically, forget it. > >Does anybody know of any mechanically-oriented mailing lists where I can >seek assistance? I can't even take it someplace (were I motivated to do so) >since it doesn't run. It's not worth the trouble to have towed. > >Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:39:00 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: 2.5L Woes Oh yeah... I have the Factory service manuals that cover the 2.5 motor so let me know if you need any info. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:39:49 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: Re: xj: 2.5L Woes From: "Bob Mock" > You said you replaced everything....does that include a coil? mine went > out and had the same symptoms. Also, is there any sort of TDC sensor or > CPS sensor? if it doesn't know there TDC is then it won't fire. > > Those came to mind of the top of my head but I'll keep thinking....... I > assume the cap and rotor were replaced...?..?.. Yup, everything except the distributor: Cap, rotor, plugs, wires, ignition module, coil. Unless the new coil is also bad, but I have no way to test it the way the book says (no way to access bare wire on the distributor). Gotta hate these damn books that are so generic. :/ There's no mention of a TDC sensor either. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:47:10 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: Re: xj: 2.5L Woes From: "Bob Mock" > Oh yeah... I have the Factory service manuals that cover the 2.5 motor so > let me know if you need any info. If there's any good diagnostic info on ignition issues, I have a fax number if you don't mind sending those over. :) I tried to get a couple of those manuals on eBay, but the prices skyrocketed to way more than I was willing to spend on an almost worn out manual. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:28:12 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: xj: Injectors and bad gas? A: With the introduction of MTBE a few years back, and alcohol as well, the chemical swamp that is going into gas tanks these days is horrendous! Many manufacturers built injectors to handle the fuel of 10 or more years ago, and the changes to it since is eating through the plastics of yore, and cause all kinds of car-b-ques, fuel line rot and injector failures. Nissan had to recall all '84 and newer 3.0L V6s to replace injectors because they were springing leaks like old garden hoses due to the fuel change. I spoke with a spokesman for the company who said the problem was the fuel change (my wife's Maxima sprung a leak in 4 injectors w/o warning after they put the "oxidixing" agents in our WA state fuel. It was right in the middle of the I-90 bridge when she started smelling the gas and took a chance on going all the way across before calling me) and not the injectors themselves. He said to watch and other companies would be having the same trouble, and sure enough, I see injectors springing leaks all over where this fuel additive is being used, and anyone from outside these areas soon has injector failure when they start gassing up here. (Her car was from AZ and had 120,000 miles on the original injectors, and started having trouble only after gassing up here. It ran fine in BC on Canadian gas) MTBE is the WORST pollution to ever be mandated by the idiots in CA for the rest of the country to be poisioned by! From: Bob Mock I got my injectors from Advanced auto...I thought they were fine.   I only had to get 3 of them. They leak between the metal and plastic parts of the body, and I don't necessarily think it's a matter of bad gas...just the nature of plastic. Since they all got started being used at the same time (from the factory) then it would seam reasonable that a couple out of the 6 would start to fail around the same time. But it could be something in the gas...i'm not a petro expert. At 08:42 AM 1/8/01 -0600, you wrote: There was some posts last month about an epidemic of injectors going bad. I think someone ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:21:02 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: fuel costs Just got our propane bill!!! $1.83/gallon, delivered at home!!!! it's always been very inexpensive... jumped way up in price!!! reg unleaded 1.47 - 1.55 Diesel 1.83 - 1.88 john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:46:00 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: front drive question Aaron Storms wrote: Does the newer '91 case not have this small of an > engagement problem? No - they're all like that (231). I just put in the newer case as a troubleshooting thing - and left it in. Bill I thought you needed the gears because your rear is now 3.55 and the front still 3.07 - I guess I misunderstood. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:49:37 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: Best block Which list would this be, Rob? :o) Phil - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Lutin Plunder Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: XJ Digest Subject: xj: Best block Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 05:10:19 -0800 (PST) Hey all, Finally found this List and joined. I've got an '87 Cherokee and am starting to research building a stroker, and after read the first like 700 messages in the archives I though i'd ask what block would be better an HO or non-HO? I read one post that said they removed some of the ribing on the HO's. ===== Rob "Lutin Plunder" Dome; A+, Network+ 1987 Jeep Cherokee Utility Dana30-4.0L-BA10/5-NP231-Dana44 2" lift in front and 2.5" lift in the rear I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine - Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:52:04 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: 2.5L Woes Are you getting spark to the plugs (remove a lead and hold close to block - should see the spark) Also suspect the CPS, on the bellhousing (if the 2.5 has one) You could try the OEM tech forum at naxja.com Bill Bob Mock wrote: > You said you replaced everything....does that include a coil? mine went > out and had the same symptoms. Also, is there any sort of TDC sensor or > CPS sensor? if it doesn't know there TDC is then it won't fire. > > Those came to mind of the top of my head but I'll keep thinking....... I > assume the cap and rotor were replaced...?..?.. > > Bob > > At 08:28 AM 1/9/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Please excuse me if this sounds a little whiney, but I'm frustrated and > >disgusted with this POS '84 I bought. The thing hasn't run since I put a > >new valvecover gasket on it. It won't start. It's getting gas, but no > >spark. I've replaced everything in the ignition system except the > >distributor. I'm told that the distributor likely isn't the problem, so I > >haven't ordered one yet. I spent an afternoon cleaning electrical > >connectors and tracing vacuum lines and testing for electrical signals, and > >haven't found any problems yet. I don't recall seeing a fuse that affects > >the distributor either... > > > >The other problem is that nobody seems to know anything about this motor. > >Not here, not on jeepsunlimited.com, nowhere. I get the impression that > >everybody is knowledgeable about all the latest off-road equipment, but > >mechanically, forget it. > > > >Does anybody know of any mechanically-oriented mailing lists where I can > >seek assistance? I can't even take it someplace (were I motivated to do so) > >since it doesn't run. It's not worth the trouble to have towed. > > > >Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:17:24 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: Re: xj: 2.5L Woes From: "samfans" > Are you getting spark to the plugs (remove a lead and hold close to block - > should see the spark) Here's what I did (best I could do by myself). Removed plug, left plug in wire. Tied wire in place and ran ground wire from washer on plug over to chassis ground. No spark. > Also suspect the CPS, on the bellhousing (if the 2.5 has one) No idea there. > You could try the OEM tech forum at naxja.com Will do, thanks. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 02:05:00 -0500 From: Richard Welty Subject: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 8/30/00; Demime added, new HTML rules as a result, new spammer block list on web to replace Special Note] Special Note The list of alleged spammers which previously appeared here has been replaced by the new URL http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, the following phrases in subject lines are automatically blocked: Important Message From growth stocks free calling card direct e-mail secrets Merchant Account Mass Marketing make money fast Pediatric advice Email ? Million People what "they" don't want are you being investigated the actual list is quite a bit longer; i think you get the idea. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of MAPS (see j above). MAPS returns an error code of 550, which is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". If you know the IP address of your ISPs mail relay, you can go to the maps web site and test to see if it is on the RBL or the RSS. Additionally, the "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net are now visible at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Finally, some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is, as of this writing, changing from a DBA in Rensselaer County, New York, to an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site for Krusty. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1054 *************************