From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 22 15:11:43 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, January 22 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1061 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: bulbs Re: xj: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? xj: Re: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? xj: Re: Re: fsj: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Re: xj: bulbs Re: xj: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Re: xj: bulbs Re: xj: bulbs xj: Diesels -at- DC Re: xj: front parking light question xj: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? xj: Re: Diesels -at- DC xj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Re: xj: Diesels -at- DC xj: Re: fsj: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Re: xj: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? Re: xj: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? Re: xj: Diesels -at- DC XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:09:49 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: bulbs >-->> Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 Bellingham, Wa >-->> Honolulu, HI >-->> >-->> P.S. Both my PIAA bulbs burnt out at the same time as well...so looks >-->> like Ill be upgrading to some IPF/Magic J-bulbs. Is it true that the >-->> green MagicJs are better than the blue ones? One of the Hella lens is >-->> cracked, so might as well replace the set. The Magic Green bulbs are awesome. I've got 'em in Superdawg. The little wagoneer has the Marine Blue, they're ok, but not as nice as the Green ones... The Hella, Candella and Bosch replacement H4 lamps don't have the same thickness of lens as the IPFs do... I've lost windshields on my rigs, but not my IPFs... :) Regarding your headlight switch... regardless of what bulbs you use the ARB H4 headlight loom/relay kit is worth the bucks... both mark's J3000 and my J10 had wiring problems induced by old wiring and the current draw... I think Paul had trouble with his xj too when he ran high wattage bulbs... Does anyone know if Jacobs is still selling their relay kit? Of course you could do your own relay setup too for a LOT less than one of these kits... john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:42:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? Standard cut ('rotation' is a misnomer). Here's the easy rules for OEM axles: 1. ALL rear axles are standard cut. 2. MOST front axles are standard cut - here's the exceptions: a. Ford trucks have reverse rotation front axles in Dana 35, 44, 50 & 60 (older ones are std. though) b. Jeep XJ, MJ & YJ have reverse cut Dana 30 fronts. 3. If there's any doubt, look at where the pinion is located in the carrier. If it is below the horizontal centerline it is standard, above and it's reverse. That's why reverse cut axles are also referred to as 'high pinion' Of course, when you're dealing with custom axles, rules 1 & 2 do not apply, in that case, just go straight to rule #3. :) Paul "Darren K. Page" wrote: > Hello All, > > Could someone please confirm to me whether or not a Dana 44 from an XJ is > STD or REV rotation? > > I'm in the process of building one to swap into my XJ, and I am gathering > info on it. > I would open it to check, but it is currently in a shed at the outlaws. > > Thanks! > > Darren K. Page > Montreal, Qc > mailto:dkpage-at-videotron.ca > http://pages.infinit.net/dukedar/ Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:24:19 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: Re: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? Darren, I'm pretty certain that the rear D44's on xj's are standard rotation and that the front D30 is reverse cut for more strength while in forward motion. I'm sure someone else on this list knows for sure. Is your "new" D44 from an xj or mj, or from a Chevy/Ford/Wagoneer/Scout donor? If not from an xj/mj, the width and bolt patterns will be different than your front D30. Doing a locker and new gears too? If so, of course you'll have to install a matching set of gears up front. Regardless, it'll be a good upgrade. Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Darren K. Page To: Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 10:04 PM Subject: xj: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? > Hello All, > > Could someone please confirm to me whether or not a Dana 44 from an XJ is > STD or REV rotation? > > I'm in the process of building one to swap into my XJ, and I am gathering > info on it. > I would open it to check, but it is currently in a shed at the outlaws. > > Thanks! > > Darren K. Page > Montreal, Qc > mailto:dkpage-at-videotron.ca > http://pages.infinit.net/dukedar/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:39:36 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: xj: Re: Re: fsj: fuel efficient 4x4s??? From: "john" > I just don't understand why Jeep or Mercedes doesn't at least offer a > Diesel setup in their line... I mean they sell 'em overseas... what is > it with the US, has California ruined it for us?? They will, give it another year or two. Last I heard, DC was going to introduce a 3.9 or 4.0 liter V6 turbodiesel made by Detroit Diesel into the Durango, and very likely the Grand Cherokee. Word has it the motor will be no noisier than a gas engine, and will lack that typical diesel clatter sound. Now, as for the CUMMINS (notice there is no "G") diesel in the Dodge trucks, I have one, and it KICKS ASS. I won't ever own another brand of diesel in a truck or other heavy-duty application. The 300 hp/700 lbs-ft remark is easily done with very simple mods. What's even more fun is the 400 hp/900 lbs-ft mod that I hope to do to mine sometime in the coming months. I'm already at 275/660, and that just isn't enough.... not until I can tow my 19,500 lbs worth of truck, Lance camper, and car on trailer up a 6% grade at any speed I want and still not be at full throttle. :) Meanwhile, to remain at least slightly on-topic, I'd still like to try doing the Cummins (see, no "G") 3.9 4-cyl mod to my '84 Cherokee, if I could just find a motor at a decent price (sub-$1k). I bet it'd fit with minimal mods, just the motor mounts being the issue. I realize it'd require a D44 up front due to its weight, but that'd be okay. I just hope the NV3500 (3550?) would bolt up to it. Rob '84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L that runs again ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:53:00 -0800 (PST) From: Lutin Plunder Subject: Re: xj: bulbs hey alan, I'm running the IPF replacemant lenses, the green Majic J-bulbs and the ARB wiring harness. All these together is totaly awesome (if not expensive ~$300 w/ tax) Also the wiring harness is a piece of acke to install only took me about 30 minutes. If you have any questions let me know :) ===== Rob "Lutin Plunder" Dome; A+, Network+ 1987 Jeep Cherokee Utility Dana30-4.0L-BA10/5-NP231-Dana44 2" lift in front and 2.5" lift in the rear I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine - Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:55:20 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Blasphemy! I'm a big fan of the M-37's and I'd have a heart attack if he put the Pissan engine in it. :oP Rebuild the flatty 6 for Pete's sake. :o) Phil - ----Original Message Follows---- From: john Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: Vernon Tuck Subject: xj: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:58:29 -0800 (PST) On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Vernon Tuck wrote: >-->On the same subject: >-->I have a '53 Dodge Power Wagon "M-37" troop carrier. It has a flat head 6 >-->cyl engine. >--> >-->I recently purchased a wrecked '82 diesel Maxima with the LD28 straight six >-->cyl diesel. >--> >-->I'm torn between putting the engine into the power wagon or putting the >-->engine and rear axle into a 240Z. I've never heard of a diezel Z. >--> >-->Have you? no, but that sounds like a better option than trying to move 3 tons of Dodge with it... ;) A Diesel Z would be a nice ride... :) >-->Enquirin' bird-brains wanna know. >-->VT ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:59:40 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: bulbs I use the GE halogen bulbs from Schuck's/Checker/Kragen. Cost me roughly $12 each! I didn't even have to replace the wiring harness! *grin* Phil (And they're plenty bright too!) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Lutin Plunder Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: bulbs Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:53:00 -0800 (PST) hey alan, I'm running the IPF replacemant lenses, the green Majic J-bulbs and the ARB wiring harness. All these together is totaly awesome (if not expensive ~$300 w/ tax) Also the wiring harness is a piece of acke to install only took me about 30 minutes. If you have any questions let me know :) ===== Rob "Lutin Plunder" Dome; A+, Network+ 1987 Jeep Cherokee Utility Dana30-4.0L-BA10/5-NP231-Dana44 2" lift in front and 2.5" lift in the rear I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine - Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 101 23:02:37 -1000 (HST) From: Alan Chung Subject: Re: xj: bulbs Hey Guys Thanks for the advice, Ill be shopping around for them now, first ti Bill at Central 4WD to see if he has them. I might as well get the wiring harness since you guys have talked me into it...$89 is alot of money, but I guess itll lead to better lights and less load on the current wiring harness. As for my parking light problem, Im going through the manuals to see if what I can do. I think its the switch because the signals work fine...I mean the two left and two right ones blink when the switch is on and only the bottom ones blink with the lights off...which is normal...but when the lights are on, the two left ones and the two right ones...depending on which way you select...should alternate, but they dont. So... More electrical stuff to do. Oh and I should mention that my headlamps went dead alittle before the bulbs burnt out...if I slammed the hood, theyd come on very dimmly for a while and then not work. I messed with the connectors and they worked fine...hmm, maybe the wiring is decaying, even better reason for the IPF harness eh! Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 Bellingham, Wa . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:21:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: xj: Diesels -at- DC Robert Glover wrote: > They will, give it another year or two. Last I heard, DC was going to > introduce a 3.9 or 4.0 liter V6 turbodiesel made by Detroit Diesel into the > Durango, and very likely the Grand Cherokee. Word has it the motor will be > no noisier than a gas engine, and will lack that typical diesel clatter > sound. That prototype 'SUV' diesel Detroit is working on sounds sweet all right - if it actually sees production is another thing. If it was back in the Daimler-less days, I'd say Chrysler might just do it, but anymore I wonder what those Germans are thinking... maybe they've been visiting too many "Coffee Houses" next door in the Netherlands. ;) > Now, as for the CUMMINS (notice there is no "G") diesel in the Dodge trucks, > I have one, and it KICKS ASS. I won't ever own another brand of diesel in a > truck or other heavy-duty application. Better hang on to your truck then. Rumor has it the next generation Ram won't have the Cummins, but a Mercedes diesel from D-C's middleweight Freightliners. Detroit is running a close second in consideration. > The 300 hp/700 lbs-ft remark is easily done with very simple mods. What's > even more fun is the 400 hp/900 lbs-ft mod that I hope to do to mine > sometime in the coming months. I'm already at 275/660, and that just isn't > enough.... not until I can tow my 19,500 lbs worth of truck, Lance camper, > and car on trailer up a 6% grade at any speed I want and still not be at > full throttle. :) > > Meanwhile, to remain at least slightly on-topic, I'd still like to try doing > the Cummins (see, no "G") 3.9 4-cyl mod to my '84 Cherokee, if I could just > find a motor at a decent price (sub-$1k). I bet it'd fit with minimal mods, > just the motor mounts being the issue. I realize it'd require a D44 up > front due to its weight, but that'd be okay. I just hope the NV3500 (3550?) > would bolt up to it. With the torque of the 3.9, you'd probably be wise to skip the NVG3500 (Dodge) and NVG3550 (Jeep) gearboxes and go for the stronger NVG4500. Paul Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:04:26 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: front parking light question Both my parking lights went out because both bulbs had burned out. They're not big bulbs and I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did. Bob > >Alan Chung wrote: > >> Hey All >> >> Well Im mostly a lurker now, I reply sometimes, but because >> of school being so busy, I usually just sit on the side and read >> post. >> Well, Id like to ask a question and see if anyone has run >> into this problem before... >> The front parking lights on my XJ stopped working a month or >> so ago and I was wondering what the possible problem would be? the >> rear parking lights, all turn signals, and the headlamps wokr fine. >> But the front parking lights dont work at all. >> Its a possibility that it may be the switch, I just replaced >> it witha new one, so maybe I have a bad switch or just bad >> connection there? It happened about a few weeks after I installed the >> switch. Another weird thing is that the front parking lights wouldnbt >> work occasionally, then work fine for long periods of time. This time >> though, they are out! >> Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks >> >> Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 Bellingham, Wa > > Honolulu, HI ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:51:20 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? At 07:43 AM 1/22/01 -0600, Vernon Tuck wrote: >You are correct that it is nearly "3 tons of Dodge". > >However, the flathead 6 gas engine turns only about 74 HP at RPMS not unlike >those of a diesel. > >VT this is true... and I do know of a 240D engine being used to propel a late '70's FSJ Cherokee... in Sweden... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:18:41 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: xj: Re: Diesels -at- DC From: "Paul W." > Better hang on to your truck then. Rumor has it the next generation Ram won't > have the Cummins, but a Mercedes diesel from D-C's middleweight Freightliners. > Detroit is running a close second in consideration. It's why I got a 2001 model instead of waiting on the all-new bodystyle due in '03 (for the heavy-duty trucks), although Cummins and many DC people have stated at various shows and whatnot, that Cummins WILL remain in the RAM for a long time to come. I just see DC's market share of the diesel truck market dropping like a rock if they ditch the Cummins, ESPECIALLY if they commit the ultimate sin of putting a V8 diesel in there. > With the torque of the 3.9, you'd probably be wise to skip the NVG3500 (Dodge) > and NVG3550 (Jeep) gearboxes and go for the stronger NVG4500. Yeah... I got to thinking about that last night after I made the post, and decided that since the XJ is a unibody design, that the Cummins just won't work in it. Waaaay too much torque, and just too costly. I'll either rebuild what I have, or put the GM 3.4L in there. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:08:30 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: fuel efficient 4x4s??? At 11:37 PM 1/21/01 -0800, Justin Phillips wrote: >http://wps.com/LPG/index.html > >Check this guy's DIY pages. He converted a AMC 232 inline 6, very similar to >your engine (the pics will prove it) problem is my last load of propane delivered to my HOUSE was more than the current price of Diesel, which is obscene... dieslel is about 1.79 right now, reg gas at a shell station in mill creek is 1.49 and we paid 1.84 for propane for our heater!!! john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:33:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Diesels -at- DC Robert Glover wrote: > It's why I got a 2001 model instead of waiting on the all-new bodystyle due > in '03 (for the heavy-duty trucks), although Cummins and many DC people have > stated at various shows and whatnot, that Cummins WILL remain in the RAM for > a long time to come. Rumors are also flying that the new trucks will be out in the fall, with the rest of the '02 models... Dodge can't go and let GM take top diesel dog honors for too long in pickups now, can they? > I just see DC's market share of the diesel truck market dropping like a rock > if they ditch the Cummins, ESPECIALLY if they commit the ultimate sin of > putting a V8 diesel in there. A lot of people seem to be making comments like that - but if you think about it from D-C's perspective, why would you go buy a diesel out-of-house when you own Mercedes/MTU & Detroit, both of which make fine diesels (as does Cummins!). And Mercedes/MTU is already building a motor in this cless. Rumors are also floating that the Cummins will continue to be available and the new engine, which will be more powerful, will be another option. Paul Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:38:20 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: xj: Re: fsj: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? A: You can put the gears in, but the Z wouldn't handle well with a solid rear axle, and yes, it has been done! Even supposedly factory (I was told, but saw no confirmation). I saw 3 of them in BC over the years, 2 at the same time. Unfortunately my ex destroyed all my car pics :^( (She was jealous of the beautiful cars I had)       The CJ10s came with Nissan 6 cyl diesels (should've been turbo though) for export (many to OZ) and IH used them as well, coupled to 727 trannies. The Maxima should have an AW4 auto trans in it as well (2WD version) I'd like to put one of those in a 4.0L XJ, or even my MJ (If I could cure the short cab problem!) From: john On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Vernon Tuck wrote: On the same subject: I have a '53 Dodge Power Wagon "M-37" troop carrier. It has a flat head 6 cyl engine. I recently purchased a wrecked '82 diesel Maxima with the LD28 straight six cyl diesel. I'm torn between putting the engine into the power wagon or putting the engine and rear axle into a 240Z. I've never heard of a diezel Z. Have you? no, but that sounds like a better option than trying to move 3 tons of Dodge with it... ;) A Diesel Z would be a nice ride... :) Enquirin' bird-brains wanna know. VT ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:08:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: xj: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? A: Since only the rear have D44s in XJs, it's safe to say (so far) that they run straight rotation. Fords ran reverse D44s in back I think and in front (I saw at least one) From: "Darren K. Page" Hello All, Could someone please confirm to me whether or not a Dana 44 from an XJ is STD or REV rotation? I'm in the process of building one to swap into my XJ, and I am gathering info on it. I would open it to check, but it is currently in a shed at the outlaws. Thanks! Darren K. Page Montreal, Qc mailto:dkpage-at-videotron.ca ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:26:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: XJ Dana 44 - Which Rotation? Sorry Jim - Ford only runs reverse cut axles up front. The Bronco's got the rev cut D44 in 1978, when they grew to K5 Blazer size, but the F-100/150 got them a few years earlier. I'm not sure if the F-250 got them at the same time as the 1/2T's - but I'm thinking they held off until '78. After '78 though, all the F-series trucks have reverse cut Dana front ends. I'm not positive about the Ranger/Bronco II/Exploder's Dana 28 & 35 fronts, but I _think_ they are also rev cut... but since I've never had a need for any parts off of these lightweights, I haven't looked at them very closely. Paul James Blair wrote: > A: Since only the rear have D44s in XJs, it's safe to say (so far) that > they run straight rotation. Fords ran reverse D44s in back I think and > in front (I saw at least one) Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:45:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Diesels -at- DC "Paul W." wrote: > Robert Glover wrote: > > I just see DC's market share of the diesel truck market dropping like a > > rock if they ditch the Cummins, ESPECIALLY if they commit the ultimate sin > > of putting a V8 diesel in there. > > A lot of people seem to be making comments like that - but if you think about > it from D-C's perspective, why would you go buy a diesel out-of-house when > you own Mercedes/MTU & Detroit, both of which make fine diesels (as does > Cummins!). And Mercedes/MTU is already building a motor in this cless. > > Rumors are also floating that the Cummins will continue to be available and > the new engine, which will be more powerful, will be another option. WHY is a V8 diesel the "ultimate sin?" They seem to work great in LOTS of other applications - and when you get into powerplant class (like Marine and power generation), the "V" configuration is far more common... but then I guess an in-line 20 cylinder would have some serious space problems, to say nothing of potential crank flex ;) In addition to the muddy waters of D-C's ownership of MTU & Detroit -AND- their contract with Cummins to provide engines, I just came across this bit of old news from Novemeber '00 that I don't recall hearing anything about in the media... <<< Caterpillar Inc.and the commercial vehicle division of DaimlerChrysler AG have agreed to form a 50/50 global alliance to develop, manufacture, market and distribute medium-duty engines, fuel systems and other powertrain components to serve the needs of third-party customers and for use in their own products. >>> For the full press release, check out: http://www.powertrain.daimlerchrysler.com/e/news/presse001123.htm So now you can throw a Cat into the fray :^P~ ...Or better yet, why not be the first light truck maker to offer buyers a choice of several diesels - just like medium & heavy duty trucks & semis? So, sir, you want a new 1T Ram? What'll it be, big Dodge gas motor (rumor has it the V-10 is due to be replaced by another V-10 or possibly a new generation of Hemi), Cummins, Detroit, MTU, or Cat? Standard cab, extended cab, crew cab, or sleeper? Paul (Sorry for getting WAY off topic here :) Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1061 *************************