From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jan 27 08:24:31 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Saturday, January 27 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1066 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: John, a jeep diesel conversion for you xj: Californusion... Re: xj: toys xj: Rims-Help!!! Re: xj: Rims-Help!!! Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? xj: ZJ max tire size xj: tow hooks? Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Re: xj: tow hooks? xj: Roadless Area news - please read and distribute! Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Re: xj: tow hooks? xj: 241 in a XJ? Re: xj: tow hooks? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:42:51 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: John, a jeep diesel conversion for you John, you may know this guy and all of this stuff already, but thought in case you didn't, you might be interested. Aaron "Jim Alton" writes: For economy and power, I used a Volvo 2.4 L. 6 cyl. turbo diesel from a mid-80's car in the buildup of my Wrangler, and mated it to a T-18 tranny. Jim 86 XJ V-6 88 XJ 4.0, 3" Rough Country (daily driver/tow rig) 94 XJ 4.0 2wd (for now) 87 Comanche 4.0 2wd 92 YJ, 6 cyl Turbo Diesel, T-18, Dana 20 w/18 gears, Dana 60/44 (full width), spring over, full cage, and plenty of work left to go! Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:28:06 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Californusion... http://digitalcity.netscape.com/sanfrancisco/news/article.dci?article=699974 a clean running Diesel sounds more viable... ;) It's also interesting to note that it's no longer legal to buy a Colt AR-15 sport rifle in California, but it is in Russia... hmmm... ya gotta wonder... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:45:05 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: xj: toys A: I don't recall the name, but there was one at the Value Village I got my 1 foot tall 4x4 wheels and body I put my J10 Tonka body onto. (On Ballard ave I think in N Seattle anyway) From: samfans can anyone remember tha name of this toy - i'm intrigued and would love to find one Bill Alan Chung wrote: Heya                 I had that toy years ago! Yeah you could either turn the hubs for no claws, claws when traction was needed or "locked" out claws. Remember..."Nothing Can Stop!...The Animal!" Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 Bellingham, Wa P.S. My grown up toy is my Jeep of course, but I also have a 4WD 3-speed Tamiya Bruiser as well! ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:58:20 -0500 From: "Dan B" Subject: xj: Rims-Help!!! I have an 87 Wagoneer with stock rims. The clearcoat is peeling off and they are starting to look very dirty. My question is, my brother has a set of 15" 1996 Chevy S10 4x4 rims that are in great shape. Is there any way I could use these rims for my Jeep (they're free)??? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:52:42 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: Rims-Help!!! no, sorry, wrong bolt pattern - they're 5x4.75 not 5x4.5. if you want to know what stock rims will fit, check out: http://billyxj.tripod.com/Alloyrims/rims Bill Dan B wrote: > I have an 87 Wagoneer with stock rims. The clearcoat is peeling off and they > are starting to look very dirty. My question is, my brother has a set of 15" > 1996 Chevy S10 4x4 rims that are in great shape. Is there any way I could > use these rims for my Jeep (they're free)??? > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:51:56 -0500 From: Sean Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Yeah, I did go to the website before I posted the question, but since (as you saw) they didn't have the info I was looking for, that maybe someone here has had experience with them. As far as diesels go, I'm kind of a big Cummins fan. As for other diesels.... are there any diesels that are similar in size, or just slightly smaller than the Jeep 4.0? Either a large 4 cyl or a small 6 cyl. I'd LOVE to be able to fit a Cummins 5.9 in there, but I know that ain't happenin' any time soon. Sean B. Schenectady, NY Paul W. wrote: > I know enough to get me in trouble ;) > > I went to the Cummins site and looked around a bit. > near as I can tell from the site, the B3.9 is an agricultural & construction > equipment engine. Kinda small for trucks that come OEM with diesels (in the > USA). They didn't give any dimensional specifics though - just power ratigs of > various sub-models. > > I did find it interesting that the B5.9 has a military version with 230 hp and > 605 ft/lbs of torque (-at-1600 RPM, governed -at-2500 RPM). > > Paul > > > Sean wrote: > >> Anyone know what vehicle(s) came with the Cummins 3.9 liter 4cyl? (I >> think it was a 4-cyl). Anyone know the dimensions in comparison to a >> 4.0? I KNOW it's a bit heavier, but I was wondering physical >> dimensions... length, width, height. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Sean B. >> Schenectady, NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:04:48 -0600 From: "Paul Schifanella" Subject: xj: ZJ max tire size I know this isn't the ZJ mailing list, but I have a friend with a ZJ and asked if I could find out the max tire size that would fit on a stock ZJ 4x4. Thanks and appologies for not being an XJ question. Paul _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:15:42 -0600 From: "Paul Schifanella" Subject: xj: tow hooks? OK, here's an XJ question. I know Rusty's has bolt on tow hooks. Does anyone else? Any comments on quality would be appreciated also. Thanks. Paul _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:00:55 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? From: "Sean" > Yeah, I did go to the website before I posted the question, but since (as > you saw) they didn't have the info I was looking for, that maybe someone > here has had experience with them. > As far as diesels go, I'm kind of a big Cummins fan. As for other > diesels.... are there any diesels that are similar in size, or just > slightly smaller than the Jeep 4.0? Either a large 4 cyl or a small 6 cyl. > I'd LOVE to be able to fit a Cummins 5.9 in there, but I know that ain't > happenin' any time soon. Hahaha, this is too funny. I joinend this list about a month and a half ago, and started in at the same time trying to find out if the B3.9 would fit in my '84. I even found a new one on eBay (for $2500 no less -- ouch). What I determined is that it'll fit if you're willing to go to the trouble to MAKE it fit. The problem is that along with the motor, you'll get to replace the transmission (to an NV4500), the xfer case (to an NP241), and put a Dana 44 up front, and either a Dana 44 or 60 in back. It'll be necessary to handle the weight of it, as well as the torque it'll make after a set of injectors and a custom torque plate in the pump. :) Rob - - 84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L 5sp - - 01 Dodge RAM 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins HO 6sp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:13:44 -0500 From: Sean Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? I'm well aware of the rest of the driveline... I have taken that WELL into consideration. My fault for not stating it, though. My buildup will be as follows.... Front axle: Dana 60 from a Ford truck, kept at full width. Rear axle: Dana 70 also from a Ford... also full width. Axle gearing: 5.89 or 6.17 T-case: Atlas-II or an NP205 from a Ford Frame (or "Uni-frame") will be "boxed" with 3/16" steel Front suspension will be converted to leaf springs Rear leaf springs will be moved a few inches inboard, to directly under the frame rails. Tires will be 38" or possibly 40" My current 4.0 runs o.k. But I This is completely a project vehicle for me now, and I'd LOVE a diesel. If I DO swap motors, whatever I swap to (SB Chevy, diesel, etc.) I planned on swapping trannies as well. Sean B. Schenectady, NY Robert Glover wrote: > Hahaha, this is too funny. I joinend this list about a month and a half > ago, and started in at the same time trying to find out if the B3.9 would > fit in my '84. I even found a new one on eBay (for $2500 no less -- ouch). > > What I determined is that it'll fit if you're willing to go to the trouble > to MAKE it fit. The problem is that along with the motor, you'll get to > replace the transmission (to an NV4500), the xfer case (to an NP241), and > put a Dana 44 up front, and either a Dana 44 or 60 in back. It'll be > necessary to handle the weight of it, as well as the torque it'll make after > a set of injectors and a custom torque plate in the pump. :) > > Rob > - 84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L 5sp > - 01 Dodge RAM 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins HO 6sp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? For another 69 lbs, there's the 4B-250 version of the Marine 3.9L and it puts out 240-250 hp (depending on the way it's measured). and its external dimensions are close at 30.46"L x 33.64"W x 30.45"H (though from the picture of this one, it looks like the turbo & aftercooler may be in the way of an automotive type bellhousing... http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/marine/recreational/4b-250.cfm - --- yankstrap wrote: > There's another page under the Marine section with a > 155B turbocharged engine - it's a 3.9L 4 cyl, and that > version weighs a whopping 932 lbs, and is 30.7"L x > 27.7"W x 30.5"H. Sounds like a big 4 banger. Marine > dress has to add to size and weight, tho. Specs are > at > http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/marine/recreational/155b.cfm > > > --- "Paul W." wrote: > > > > I know enough to get me in trouble ;) > > > > I went to the Cummins site > > and looked around a bit. > > near as I can tell from the site, the B3.9 is an > > agricultural & construction > > equipment engine. Kinda small for trucks that come > > OEM with diesels (in the > > USA). They didn't give any dimensional specifics > > though - just power ratigs of > > various sub-models. > > > > I did find it interesting that the B5.9 has a > > military version with 230 hp and > > 605 ft/lbs of torque (-at-1600 RPM, governed -at-2500 > > RPM). > > > > Paul > > > > > > Sean wrote: > > > Anyone know what vehicle(s) came with the Cummins > > 3.9 liter 4cyl? (I > > > think it was a 4-cyl). Anyone know the dimensions > > in comparison to a > > > 4.0? I KNOW it's a bit heavier, but I was > > wondering physical > > > dimensions... length, width, height. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Sean B. > > > Schenectady, NY > > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great > > prices. > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:01:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: tow hooks? Paul, Cherokees require additional brackets to bolt on 'standard' tow hooks. Rusty's sells these brackets (& hooks). Tomken also sells XJ tow hook brackets (which IMHO are not as good as factory ones). I've heard rumor that you can no longer get new OEM tow hook brackets thru Jeep dealers - unless they hapen to have some on their parts shelves already. You can source used OEM ones from salvage yards or private sources. Paul Paul Schifanella wrote: > OK, here's an XJ question. > I know Rusty's has bolt on tow hooks. > Does anyone else? > Any comments on quality would be appreciated also. > > Thanks. > Paul Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:17:56 -0000 From: "Robert Bubala" Subject: xj: Roadless Area news - please read and distribute! For Immediate Release For Further Information Contact: Carla Boucher (757) 482-4474 ROADLESS AREA CONSERVATION RULE HAS BEEN FROZEN UNTIL MAY, 2001 The wasteful and dangerous Roadless Area Conservation Rule created by former President Clinton has been frozen by President George W. Bush for an additional 60 days, until May 13, 2001. This tremendously encouraging news comes from Carla Boucher, one of the nation^Òs premier authorities on the Roadless Rule and its dangerous effects to forest health, local economies, and public access. ^ÓThis 60 day postponement on the effective date of the final rule is a great sign that President Bush has the uncanny ability to balance forest health issues with the principles of democracy and fair play that have made America the great country that it is^Ô, stated Boucher, author of the extremely popular Public Land Owner^Òs Manual. The President has requested that all regulations (rules) which have been published in the Federal Register but have not yet taken effect be temporarily postponed for 60 days until a department or agency head appointed by President Bush reviews and approves the regulatory action, explained Boucher, the attorney and legislative advocate for United Four Wheel Drive Associations. ^ÓUnited has been concerned throughout the rulemaking by the fact that it has cost Americans over $9 million to develop a rule that will place over 90,000 additional acres at risk of catastrophic wildfire, untold loss of species and habitat, and cost an additional $52.4 million in fire suppression efforts, all in the name of alleged ^Ñconservation^Ò ^Ö with friends like that, what species needs enemies^Ô, lamented Boucher, from her law office in Chesapeake, Virginia. ^ÓUnited is dedicated to the conservation of public and private lands for the further use and enjoyment of others and this 60 day freeze on the Roadless Rule is good news for forest health and conservation^Ô, concluded Boucher, who has been suggested for possible positions within the new Bush administration. # # # United Four Wheel Drive Associations is an international organization of four wheel drive enthusiasts dedicated to the conservation and utilization of public lands. www.ufwda.org Carla Boucher can be contacted at P.O. Box 15696, Chesapeake, VA 23328, (757) 482-4474, ccboucher-at-home.com ============== Robert Bubala Iron Horse 4x4s, Inc. http://home.off-road.com/~iron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:45:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Ummm... there might be a slight problem fitting a NP241 into an XJ/MJ... Rob B tried putting one in his MJ. It is just too big. Cutting a hole in the floor to account for it's greater girth wasn't the big probelm either - having to cut out a section of the left "frame" rail is. OTOH, you can upgrade to an Atlas II along with the NV4500. Paul (was bummed out to learn this cuz I thought a 241 might be a cheap upgrade - compared to the Atlas anyway.) Robert Glover wrote: > Hahaha, this is too funny. I joinend this list about a month and a half > ago, and started in at the same time trying to find out if the B3.9 would > fit in my '84. I even found a new one on eBay (for $2500 no less -- ouch). > > What I determined is that it'll fit if you're willing to go to the trouble > to MAKE it fit. The problem is that along with the motor, you'll get to > replace the transmission (to an NV4500), the xfer case (to an NP241), and > put a Dana 44 up front, and either a Dana 44 or 60 in back. It'll be > necessary to handle the weight of it, as well as the torque it'll make after > a set of injectors and a custom torque plate in the pump. :) > > Rob > - 84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L 5sp > - 01 Dodge RAM 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins HO 6sp Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:02:00 -0800 From: "Robert Glover" Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? From: "Paul W." > Ummm... there might be a slight problem fitting a NP241 into an XJ/MJ... Rob B > tried putting one in his MJ. It is just too big. Cutting a hole in the floor > to account for it's greater girth wasn't the big probelm either - having to cut > out a section of the left "frame" rail is. OTOH, you can upgrade to an Atlas > II along with the NV4500. Ooof, good point. I should have realized that before I said it, since I've had the NP241 out of my truck while installing a US Gear overdrive. That transfer case is HUGE and freakin' HEAVY. I figure it's about 75 lbs. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:11:43 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Paul, I'm pretty sure someone out there has put a 241 in a Cherokee. I think they might show up on NAXJA.org. Jeff "Paul W." wrote: > > Ummm... there might be a slight problem fitting a NP241 into an XJ/MJ... Rob B > tried putting one in his MJ. It is just too big. Cutting a hole in the floor > to account for it's greater girth wasn't the big probelm either - having to cut > out a section of the left "frame" rail is. OTOH, you can upgrade to an Atlas > II along with the NV4500. > > Paul > (was bummed out to learn this cuz I thought a 241 might be a cheap upgrade - > compared to the Atlas anyway.) > > Robert Glover wrote: > > Hahaha, this is too funny. I joinend this list about a month and a half > > ago, and started in at the same time trying to find out if the B3.9 would > > fit in my '84. I even found a new one on eBay (for $2500 no less -- ouch). > > > > What I determined is that it'll fit if you're willing to go to the trouble > > to MAKE it fit. The problem is that along with the motor, you'll get to > > replace the transmission (to an NV4500), the xfer case (to an NP241), and > > put a Dana 44 up front, and either a Dana 44 or 60 in back. It'll be > > necessary to handle the weight of it, as well as the torque it'll make after > > a set of injectors and a custom torque plate in the pump. :) > > > > Rob > > - 84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L 5sp > > - 01 Dodge RAM 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins HO 6sp > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:12:21 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: xj: tow hooks? I also think Custom 4x4 Fabrication makes some brackets. Jeff "Paul W." wrote: > > Paul, > Cherokees require additional brackets to bolt on 'standard' tow hooks. Rusty's > sells these brackets (& hooks). > > Tomken also sells XJ tow hook brackets (which IMHO are not as good as factory > ones). > > I've heard rumor that you can no longer get new OEM tow hook brackets thru Jeep > dealers - unless they hapen to have some on their parts shelves already. You > can source used OEM ones from salvage yards or private sources. > > Paul > > Paul Schifanella wrote: > > OK, here's an XJ question. > > I know Rusty's has bolt on tow hooks. > > Does anyone else? > > Any comments on quality would be appreciated also. > > > > Thanks. > > Paul > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:13:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: xj: 241 in a XJ? Maybe so... I'm just going by what Rob said when he tried it. He said its too wide to go in his MJ without cutting the LH framerail. As the old saying goes, "You can put a Hemi on a skateboard." The question is, is it practical. If the 241 is too wide to fit between the rails in it's normal position, it could be re-clocked or lowered to clear, but then you've just exposed it to the obstacles more. And if Rob is wrong, hey, I got no issue with that - just goin' by what I've been told by someone who's tried it. (I certainly have not.) Paul Jeff wrote: > Paul, I'm pretty sure someone out there has put a 241 in a Cherokee. I > think they might show up on NAXJA.org. Jeff > > "Paul W." wrote: > > > > Ummm... there might be a slight problem fitting a NP241 into an XJ/MJ... > Rob B > > tried putting one in his MJ. It is just too big. Cutting a hole in the > floor > > to account for it's greater girth wasn't the big probelm either - having to > cut > > out a section of the left "frame" rail is. OTOH, you can upgrade to an > Atlas > > II along with the NV4500. > > > > Paul > > (was bummed out to learn this cuz I thought a 241 might be a cheap upgrade > - > > compared to the Atlas anyway.) > > > > Robert Glover wrote: > > > Hahaha, this is too funny. I joinend this list about a month and a half > > > ago, and started in at the same time trying to find out if the B3.9 would > > > fit in my '84. I even found a new one on eBay (for $2500 no less -- > ouch). > > > > > > What I determined is that it'll fit if you're willing to go to the > trouble > > > to MAKE it fit. The problem is that along with the motor, you'll get to > > > replace the transmission (to an NV4500), the xfer case (to an NP241), and > > > put a Dana 44 up front, and either a Dana 44 or 60 in back. It'll be > > > necessary to handle the weight of it, as well as the torque it'll make > after > > > a set of injectors and a custom torque plate in the pump. :) > > > > > > Rob > > > - 84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L 5sp > > > - 01 Dodge RAM 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins HO 6sp > > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:05:29 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: tow hooks? I have Rusty's tow hooks. Stole em from his XJ a few months ago. I don't think he's noticed yet. Sorry, I had to post that.......lol :o) Well, you asked if anyone else had them......lol Phil *Crawls back into his cave* - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Paul Schifanella" Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: xj: tow hooks? Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:15:42 -0600 OK, here's an XJ question. I know Rusty's has bolt on tow hooks. Does anyone else? Any comments on quality would be appreciated also. Thanks. Paul _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1066 *************************