From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 29 11:16:13 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, January 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1068 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Further pics of Barts XYJ project. Re: xj: Gauge swap xj: Archives xj: Factory Rubber Engine and Transmission Mounts question. Re: xj: Factory Rubber Engine and Transmission Mounts question. xj: RE: cb channel I-5 xj: RE: Factory Rubber Engine and Transmission Mounts question. xj: Re: info for 1987 wagoneer xj: more trip report xj: a trip report xj: Portland trip report xj: The Cummins 3.9L Subject: xj: Help - battery run flat !! Re: xj: The Cummins 3.9L Re: xj: RE: cb channel I-5 xj: bad lifters? Re: xj: bad lifters? Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:04:47 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: xj: Further pics of Barts XYJ project. http://www.outdoorwire.com//4x4/jeep/projects/FleXJ/XYJ/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:46:44 -0500 From: Jim Champoux Subject: Re: xj: Gauge swap you will need to replace the oil and water senders, they are around 25 bucks ea from the dealer, the part numbers are 56026782 53005309 im not sure which is which but it doesnt matter you need both there is a lot of stuff in the archives about this swap jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:04:27 -0500 From: "Ryan Nickerson" Subject: xj: Archives I know this question has probably been asked a million times as well. But would someone mind giving me the URL to the archives? Thanks - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:38:50 +1000 From: Nigel.Chan-at-alcatel.com.au Subject: xj: Factory Rubber Engine and Transmission Mounts question. Hi all, I think this question has been asked before, but I can't remember the answer that was given so forgive for asking it again. How long do the factory rubber engine and transmission mounts last? I am experiencing some rattling when I accelerate in reverse, but I don't get any rattling when in drive. I suspect my rubber mounts are worn and the engine + trans are rotating too much when I am reversing. My 95 XJ has done 150,000km (~93,000 miles). Thanks, Nigel - -- Nigel Chan | 95 XJ Cherokee, 4.0L HO, AW4, NP242, nigel.chan-at-ieee.org | OME 2", ARB Bullbar, Safari Snorkel, nigel.chan-at-alcatel.com.au | Kaymar Rearstep Towbar & Wheel Carrier, Sydney, Australia | Whiteline Adj Trackbar, 31x10.5 BFG AT's. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Factory Rubber Engine and Transmission Mounts question. Depends on how well they stay free of grease & oil. My 86's laast ~150K miles. Paul - --- Nigel.Chan-at-alcatel.com.au wrote: > Hi all, > > I think this question has been asked before, but I can't remember the answer > that was given so forgive for asking it again. > > How long do the factory rubber engine and transmission mounts last? > > I am experiencing some rattling when I accelerate in reverse, but I don't get > any rattling when in drive. I suspect my rubber mounts are worn and the > engine + > trans are rotating too much when I am reversing. > > My 95 XJ has done 150,000km (~93,000 miles). > > Thanks, > Nigel > -- > Nigel Chan | 95 XJ Cherokee, 4.0L HO, AW4, NP242, > nigel.chan-at-ieee.org | OME 2", ARB Bullbar, Safari Snorkel, > nigel.chan-at-alcatel.com.au | Kaymar Rearstep Towbar & Wheel Carrier, > Sydney, Australia | Whiteline Adj Trackbar, 31x10.5 BFG AT's. Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:51:31 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: RE: cb channel I-5 At 09:02 PM 1/26/01 -0500, Dan Jacobs wrote: >Channel 17 for the truckers on I5. thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:46:46 -0600 From: "Marc W. Grobe" Subject: xj: RE: Factory Rubber Engine and Transmission Mounts question. I had a similar problem as you a few years back and was diagnosed as a crushed transmission mount if I remember correctly. I am going to be doing some upgrades on my XJ that I am contemplating changing my motor/trans mounts to new ones. - -Marc- - ---------- From: Nigel.Chan-at-alcatel.com.au [mailto:Nigel.Chan-at-alcatel.com.au] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 7:39 PM To: xj-list-at-moab.off-road.com Cc: xj-digest-at-digest.net Subject: xj: Factory Rubber Engine and Transmission Mounts question. Hi all, I think this question has been asked before, but I can't remember the answer that was given so forgive for asking it again. How long do the factory rubber engine and transmission mounts last? I am experiencing some rattling when I accelerate in reverse, but I don't get any rattling when in drive. I suspect my rubber mounts are worn and the engine + trans are rotating too much when I am reversing. My 95 XJ has done 150,000km (~93,000 miles). Thanks, Nigel - -- Nigel Chan | 95 XJ Cherokee, 4.0L HO, AW4, NP242, nigel.chan-at-ieee.org | OME 2", ARB Bullbar, Safari Snorkel, nigel.chan-at-alcatel.com.au | Kaymar Rearstep Towbar & Wheel Carrier, Sydney, Australia | Whiteline Adj Trackbar, 31x10.5 BFG AT's. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:00:38 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: info for 1987 wagoneer At 08:20 AM 1/28/01 -0500, Kw4444-at-aol.com wrote: >Hi, We just bought a 1987 Jeep Wagoneer Ltd. It didn't have the manual that >comes with it when their new. Any idea where I could find one? Hope you can >help! > Thanks, Karen Wilson ebay, some dealers might still have one or can order them, and dyment publications or others might have reprints. john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:15:55 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: more trip report my polish engineer friend sent more... stan is a first rate character... currently loose in mexico with a Jeep Cherokee. john - --------------------- Well, I made it to Oaxaca! I am drivng over 20 days in Mexico and I did not run over: A pack of stray dogs. A goat. A donkey. A cow. A bicyclist ridinng between two lanes of moving cars. A band of musicians performing between two lanes of moving cars. A team of children having an acrobatic show between two lanes of moving cars. What a luck! I hate Spanish keybord! I have a lot to write about, perhaps next week since I stay in Oaxaca for a while. I visited very interresting archeological sites of Olmec cultere. Some of them are 3500 years old. Also: Cortez castele in Cuernavaca and Gardens of emp Maximilian. One is a miniature copy of Viennaīs Belvedere. Have a lot of fun. Srr - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:10:25 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: a trip report A friend of mine is traveling with his Jeep Cherokee... He's a retired s/w engineer. He used to own an Isuzu Trooper, but was influenced by my Jeep addiction. :) He's an interesting character, he survived WWII where he'd been forced to ride on the front of trains in Poland back and forth to the Russian front. He was 8 or 9 but remembers vividly the experience. He's a EE from the U of Warsaw. If you'd like I'll pass along further trip reports. His name is Stan. (I can't spell the polish version of it... ;) john - ------------- Fuel costs in Mexico much more than in the USA 5.30 pesos per liter. It was much cheaper before. Cost increase started after egreament between ex president Salinas and ex president Bush. According to agreement all Mexican refineries are closed, because of pollution, and all crude oil is refined by selected refineries in USA, which all happened to be owned by Bush family. These selected rafineries supposed to use part of gained profit to help Mexico finance modernization of their refineries. Up to now they donīt. Other substantial cost, when you travel, is toll on roads. I donīt have exact statistics, but it is about 80 pesos for 200 km. The roads are excellent, not freeways, but very good high speed road. and there are call boxes every 3 km. And no animals. I did several driving on toll free roads. Sometimes it is OK. Driving through towns could by very confusing. Road ususally desintegrates into narrow, windy streets, with no wey to pass or turn around. Once I had to follow a pack donkey. I had to switch to 4by4, low gear and drive on first gear. The problem is to find the street which leads to the highway. No way to guess, one has to ask. Jeep drives very well, up to now. The most I appreciate is that I did not lose control when my front right tire exploded in California, while I was drivng over 80 MPH. The other thing, which I admire, is that it drives so good in high altitudes. No problems above fourteen thousand feet, higher than several planes (cessna 150) could fly! Have fun SRR - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:10:46 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Portland trip report We're back... found out that CH 17 is the trucker's channel on I-5. :) Trip down was fine, but wasn't sure we were going to make it back. :) The trailer empty weighed 1,400lbs. We put an engine, manifold, 2 doors, a tailgate (with glass), an intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, a box of parts that I haven't even looked at yet, an old three piece bumper, fenders and a hood... there's more, but I can't remember what else there is. :) Rough estimate was that it was around 2,500lbs or so... the springs weren't arching backwards... still had a little bit of up arch... a good sign. That means I didn't have to install the overload springs on the trailer. ;) We left the trailer at fredrick's house after loading. We spent all day Saturday driving around Portland shopping at antique stores. The only bad thing that happened is my camera quit working. :( So I didn't get that many pictures... :( only 45 or so... ;) So, around 5:30pm Saturday I hook Superdawg up to the trailer and we head for home. Still on the auxillary tank. I figured we'd have to switch to the main tank just north of Vancouver... sure enough, just outside Kelso or thereabouts we lost power, so I switched tanks... went along ok, 55 to 60mph, thinking that a V8 would be a really nice thing to have right about now... figure we're rolling along at about 7,000 lbs plus. Some of the hills require a downshift to fourth and pretty much a heavy foot... tried to keep the vacuum guage as close to 5" and still keep moving forward. We were doing ok when all of a sudden it felt like somebody was pouring water into the carb... shuddering and sputtering... I downshifted and couldn't get the rpm's up. Felt like when the coil failed before, but different... just couldn't get any power... smoke rolling out the tailpipe... luckily we were just coming up to the first rest stop on I-5 and we shuddered and stuttered in... I shut superdawg off, popped the hood and took a break. After a cup of coffee I came back, checked the oil and pulled the air cleaner off... The blowby had been pretty bad and lots of crud was up by the air cleaner, so I shook the air cleaner out (amsoil lifetime two stage of course), banged it on the ground and left a nice pile of sludge. ;) Put the air cleaner back on with the lid off to one side. Fired right up and rev'd fine. At no point did I have any oil pressure loss or rise in temperature. If I would have had a rise in temperature with the symptoms I would have been thinking head gasket... So, we head back out, I do the Italian tune-up heading up the ramp figuring if something is gonna give I'm gonna let it go near a rest room... ;) We head on up the road 40 to 50 miles, doing ok, but it's starting to do the cutout at higher rpms... what's this, another rest area, ok, superdawg wants to take a break... we stop, rest, he's ok again. of course my wife noticed that the problem started when we switched to the main tank... she says fill up the auxillary tank and use it... so we're heading along and come up to the Black Lake exit and superdawg starts his high speed miss again, so we roll in to the texaco and fill up the auxillary and top off the main tank and hit the taco bell. We roll back out onto I-5 on the auxillary tank and all is well, made it home without further incident. So, I guess the main tank filter must be getting clogged or something. When we sat whatever was clogging the filter settled out. My 300SD did the same thing when it's filter clogged, if we let the car sit for a bit we'd get power back again. A 6 cylinder 4.2L carb'd engine will actually get the job done. But I've made a similar run with Old Blue and didn't even slow down on the hills. Of course I got about 12 miles to the gallon too. Rough estimate from this trip was about 15miles per gallon on the trip down. I'm pretty sure a 4.0L would work well, they put out more power than a carb'd 4.2L. I'm pretty sure the little wagoneer would have done fine on this parts run... but since this was an FSJ run I felt compelled to do it with an FSJ. ;) And, then I found out last night after "locking" my hubs in to park the trailer, that my hubs HAD been locked in... so I drove all the way down and back with the front axle and shaft spinning... :) Guess my driveline is well balanced, didn't notice it. SuperDawg marked his territory when we got home... all that oil that was blowing by under all that hard work settled to the driveway last night... :) So today I fixed my 300SD... :) I'm driving it to work tomorrow... gonna give SuperDawg a couple days of rest... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:16:04 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: The Cummins 3.9L >Hahaha, this is too funny. I joinend this list about a month and a half >ago, and started in at the same time trying to find out if the B3.9 would >fit in my '84. I even found a new one on eBay (for $2500 no less -- ouch). >What I determined is that it'll fit if you're willing to go to the trouble >to MAKE it fit. The problem is that along with the motor, you'll get to >replace the transmission (to an NV4500), the xfer case (to an NP241), and >put a Dana 44 up front, and either a Dana 44 or 60 in back. It'll be >necessary to handle the weight of it, as well as the torque it'll make after >a set of injectors and a custom torque plate in the pump. :) >Rob >- - 84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L 5sp >- - 01 Dodge RAM 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins HO 6sp if I've already got a Dana 44 in front (83 J10 Stepside), what kind of automatic transmission would work? Would my T-5 be workable? The 3.9L's were used in UPS trucks, right? I stopped by Cummins sales office in Renton years ago and looked at this engine, I think that's what they told me it was used in... it's a heavy motor... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:24:46 -0800 From: john Subject: Subject: xj: Help - battery run flat !! >Subject: xj: Help - battery run flat !! >I left it in the garage below freezing for several days with key in >"run" - drained the battery. >What's the proper way to recover a battery from a run flat?? Do i need >a charger? sorry... you probably killed it. There might be a chance that a commercial charger can recover it, but typically not. Try taking it to a battery shop and ask them if they can rejuvenate it, explain what happened. The plates have probably sulfated. :( Whenever you run a battery down because of a failed alternator or trying to get it started, it's always a good idea to throw it on a charger right away. Even then it'll sometimes kill 'em. :( hope your battery recovers... btw, a gell cell battery or a marine battery, deep discharge type, would be ok with this kind of abuse. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:43:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: The Cummins 3.9L john wrote: > if I've already got a Dana 44 in front (83 J10 Stepside), what kind > of automatic transmission would work? Would my T-5 be workable? > The 3.9L's were used in UPS trucks, right? I stopped by Cummins > sales office in Renton years ago and looked at this engine, I think > that's what they told me it was used in... it's a heavy motor... Heavy? ~900-1000 lbs that is heavier than a 4.0L or any small block V8 - well may be in the same class as a small block International V8 (392 & down). What tranny? Depends on the torque rating of the 3.9L you choose. From the looks of the Cummins page, you could easily surpass the capability of the T-5 - and the AW-4. Just a pure guess here, but I'd imagine the 3.9L shares the same b/h pattern as the Cummins 5.9L, so any trans found behind the Dodge/Cummins should work. Other trannies could be made to work with adapters. Seems there was an article about some outfit that swapped a 3.9L into a Willys Wagon and used an adapter to mate it to whatever they backed it up to (I forget). Paul Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:12:07 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: RE: cb channel I-5 That and Ch 19 as well. Phil - ----Original Message Follows---- From: john Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: (Recipient list suppressed) Subject: xj: RE: cb channel I-5 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:51:31 -0800 At 09:02 PM 1/26/01 -0500, Dan Jacobs wrote: >Channel 17 for the truckers on I5. thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:02:01 -0600 From: Doug Wright Subject: xj: bad lifters? I think the ticking noise that my engine is making may be the lifters. It's really worrying me and I'm afraid to drive it. Is it possible to tell without taking anything apart? Once I get it apart, how do I tell which one is bad? Again, it's a ticking/tapping noise which seems to be coming from the valve cover area ... it increases speed along with the engine speed ... doesn't go away when the engine warms up ... is audible under load or at idle ... and the noise seems to be in sync with the rocker arm movement (viewed through the oil filler hole). The motor has less than 20k miles on it and new Federal Mogul lifters were used in the build, however, the rockers and pushrods were reused. What would cause a lifter to go bad, stick, collapse or what ever it is they do? I have the FSM but there's not much engine specific info, and I don't have the I-6 manual. From the Haynes manual, it looks like I can remove the lifters by just removing the valve cover, rockers and pushrods. I don't have a problem with that and I don't think lifters are very expensive, but the problem is that the Haynes says that you must replace the camshaft if you replace the lifters. Is this really necessary, since camshafts aren't so cheap? Thanks, Doug doug-at-hammerdesigns.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:31:36 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: bad lifters? you can't get the lifters out without pulling the head. The holes for the push-rod's aren't big enough to get the lifters out. Valve noise is rather common on the 4.0 I would pull the valve cover and run the motor (shoudlnt' hurt anything the oil will still drain properly) and see if any of the push-rod's or rocker arms are moving differently than another. In theory I guess you could have bent a push rod slightly...they're easy to replace. and the rockers are easy to replace but I dont' know that they would create that kind of noise. Bob At 10:02 AM 1/29/01 -0600, you wrote: >I think the ticking noise that my engine is making may be the lifters. It's >really worrying me and I'm afraid to drive it. Is it possible to tell >without taking anything apart? Once I get it apart, how do I tell which one >is bad? > >Again, it's a ticking/tapping noise which seems to be coming from the valve >cover area ... it increases speed along with the engine speed ... doesn't go >away when the engine warms up ... is audible under load or at idle ... and >the noise seems to be in sync with the rocker arm movement (viewed through >the oil filler hole). > >The motor has less than 20k miles on it and new Federal Mogul lifters were >used in the build, however, the rockers and pushrods were reused. What >would cause a lifter to go bad, stick, collapse or what ever it is they do? >I have the FSM but there's not much engine specific info, and I don't have >the I-6 manual. From the Haynes manual, it looks like I can remove the >lifters by just removing the valve cover, rockers and pushrods. I don't >have a problem with that and I don't think lifters are very expensive, but >the problem is that the Haynes says that you must replace the camshaft if >you replace the lifters. Is this really necessary, since camshafts aren't >so cheap? > >Thanks, > >Doug > >doug-at-hammerdesigns.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:20:50 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Subject: Re: xj: Anyone know diesels? Sean, your Cummins 3.9L question finally did set a light off in my mind - I remember seeing something on this conversion in Four Wheeler mag. I went through my old mags and found the (very short) article in the January 2000 copy, titled "A New Lease On Life" by Gregg Womack, who did the swap. It was a 3.9L turbo swap into a '67 Wagonneer. They had to do a spring over to keep the oil pan off the axle and diff (netted 6" lift). Factory specs for the turbo version are 105hp and 325 lb/ft torque - Womack boosted this to 130hp and 525 lb/ft torque. According to the article, Womack gets a lot of inquiries about diesel conversions, so he should be a good source. Contact info given in the article (may or may not still be current): Womack Diesel Service Inc. Dept FW01 1626 N. Austin St. Seguin, TX 78155 ph: (830)379-0030 fax: (830)379-1404 email: womack-at-axs4u.net - --- Sean wrote: > I'm well aware of the rest of the driveline... I have taken that WELL > into consideration. My fault for not stating it, though. > > My buildup will be as follows.... > Front axle: Dana 60 from a Ford truck, kept at full width. > Rear axle: Dana 70 also from a Ford... also full width. > Axle gearing: 5.89 or 6.17 > T-case: Atlas-II or an NP205 from a Ford > Frame (or "Uni-frame") will be "boxed" with 3/16" steel > Front suspension will be converted to leaf springs > Rear leaf springs will be moved a few inches inboard, to directly under > the frame rails. > Tires will be 38" or possibly 40" > > My current 4.0 runs o.k. But I This is completely a project vehicle for > me now, and I'd LOVE a diesel. If I DO swap motors, whatever I swap to > (SB Chevy, diesel, etc.) I planned on swapping trannies as well. > > Sean B. > Schenectady, NY > > Robert Glover wrote: > > > > Hahaha, this is too funny. I joinend this list about a month and a half > > ago, and started in at the same time trying to find out if the B3.9 would > > fit in my '84. I even found a new one on eBay (for $2500 no less -- ouch). > > > > What I determined is that it'll fit if you're willing to go to the trouble > > to MAKE it fit. The problem is that along with the motor, you'll get to > > replace the transmission (to an NV4500), the xfer case (to an NP241), and > > put a Dana 44 up front, and either a Dana 44 or 60 in back. It'll be > > necessary to handle the weight of it, as well as the torque it'll make > after > > a set of injectors and a custom torque plate in the pump. :) > > > > Rob > > - 84 Cherokee Chief 2.5L 5sp > > - 01 Dodge RAM 3500 QC 4x4 Cummins HO 6sp Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1068 *************************