From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Feb 4 23:43:04 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Sunday, February 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1075 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: looking for an early 80's Cherokee Re: xj: Fwd: 203 Transfer case Re: xj: looking for an early 80's Cherokee Re: xj: 60th Anniversary Special Edition Jeeps Re: xj: Fwd: 203 Transfer case Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? xj: fuel costs xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? Re: xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? Re: xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? Re: xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:38:05 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: looking for an early 80's Cherokee I thought I'd found an '80 Cherokee Chief... my friend changed his mind... :( I've sort of committed to selling my '83 J10 Stepside at this point to a guy in Europe... I suppose I can back out and probably will if... if I can't find a nice Wide Track 80 to 83 Cherokee somewhere within a day or two drive of Seattle. I'd like a Laredo with all the bells and whistles if one could be found. My J10 is a wonderful FSJ, but the offer is more than I can resist. :) So I'm shopping fast and furious for a Cherokee... Let me know if you know of any. I've got a month or too... I think he's planning on coming out in April, maybe sooner... It would be awesome if I could find a nice clean Wide Track with a/c, automatic and the six cylinder... thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:49:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Fwd: 203 Transfer case The 203 is a pretty stout unit, but I feel the all-gear design of the 205 (which is actually older, not newer) is a bit more durable. OTOH, if you're making enough power to shred parts in a 203, you'll proabably be able to bust the 205. In that case, you might want to look into a Rockwell case from a military 6x6 (like what they run in monster trucks). Paul "Phil M." wrote: > Figured this one would be good for the Jeep list too, so I posted the > question on it and CC'd the Mopar list. > > Guys, any thoughts? > > Phil > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: motorhed > Reply-To: motorhed > To: Multiple recipients of MoPar > Subject: 203 Transfer case > Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:33:56 -0600 > > Hi all, > I have a 76 PowerWagon with the NP203 transfer case. Its old, > but still works fine. I was wondering what kind of power this case will > take ? I run a 413 Wedge, (non-stock) that makes 450-460 hp on 93 > octane. I want to add a "resonable" nitrous system, maybe 125-150 hp > max. I'm worried I'm looking for trouble. > Should I rebuild the 203 or swap in a newer unit, like a 205 > gear type. > Any idea's ??? I plan on drag racing it a little this year. Already runs > low > 14's at over 100mph in street trim.. > Thanks !! > Darel > > To unsubscribe send mail to unsubscribe-at-mopar.tamu.edu. > > For more information see http://www.moparmailinglist.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:53:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: looking for an early 80's Cherokee There was a beautiful red Cherokee Chief at last year's Puyallup 4x4 Swap Meet that was for sale... but I think it was a late 70's version. But this swap meet is right around the corner, so if you don't find what you're looking for, the second Sunday in March isn't too far away and maybe there'll be something to your liking there... Paul john wrote: > I thought I'd found an '80 Cherokee Chief... my friend changed > his mind... :( I've sort of committed to selling my '83 J10 Stepside > at this point to a guy in Europe... I suppose I can back out and probably > will if... if I can't find a nice Wide Track 80 to 83 Cherokee somewhere > within a day or two drive of Seattle. > > I'd like a Laredo with all the bells and whistles if one could be found. > My J10 is a wonderful FSJ, but the offer is more than I can resist. :) > So I'm shopping fast and furious for a Cherokee... Let me know if you > know of any. I've got a month or too... I think he's planning on coming > out in April, maybe sooner... It would be awesome if I could find a nice > clean Wide Track with a/c, automatic and the six cylinder... > > thanx, > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:18:15 -0600 From: "Dora, Let's Go Jeepin, Inc." Subject: Re: xj: 60th Anniversary Special Edition Jeeps very good! A+ for you :) (tutoring high school kids part time, can you tell?!) Dora-ble 97 XJ and TJ Chicago http://www.letsgojeepin.com Let's Go Jeepin, Inc. 4WD Training and Adventures Parts and Recovery Gear Outfitters - ----- Original Message ----- From: "samfans" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: Re: xj: 60th Anniversary Special Edition Jeeps > I can for me, it's easy: > > P=0 > > ;-) > > Bill > > "Dora, Let's Go Jeepin, Inc." wrote: > > > could you write that out as a probability equation and submit it in writing > > ;P ? > > > > Dora-ble > > 97 XJ and TJ > > Chicago > > http://www.letsgojeepin.com > > Let's Go Jeepin, Inc. > > 4WD Training and Adventures > > Parts and Recovery Gear Outfitters > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul W." > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:52 PM > > Subject: Re: xj: 60th Anniversary Special Edition Jeeps > > > > > Heck, I was thinkin' one of each model and color! > > > > > > Paul > > > (the likelyhood of me buying one is as great as all six ;) > > > > > > > > > --- samfans wrote: > > > > hmm Yes...I think the WJ in silver would be just the ticket....do run > > out and > > > > pick one up would you Jeeves..... > > > > > > > > Oh..and pass the Grey Poupon! :-) > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > "Paul W." wrote: > > > > > > > > > Need a new Jeep - one to collect or daily drive? How about one of > > these > > > > just > > > > > released, the Jeep 60th Anniversary Editions? > > > > > (Could very well be your last chance at a new XJ...) > > > > > > > > > > Features include: > > > > > > > > > > WJ GRAND CHEROKEE > > > > > * Unique two-tone interior (Agate intrument panel and door trim > > combined > > > > > with Light Taupe leather trimmed seats) > > > > > * Chrome wheels > > > > > * Specially embroidered floor mats. > > > > > * Trailer Tow Group > > > > > * Up Country Suspension Group > > > > > > > > > > XJ CHEROKEE > > > > > * Ultra Star cast aluminum wheels > > > > > * Specially embroidered floor mats > > > > > * Deep-tint glass > > > > > * Fog lamps > > > > > * Speed control > > > > > * AM/FM stereo radio with cassette and CD player > > > > > > > > > > TJ WRANGLER > > > > > * Full metal doors > > > > > * Body-color wheel flares and rocker sills > > > > > * Canyon 30-inch Tire and Wheel Group > > > > > * Fog Lamp and Tow Hook Group > > > > > * Air Conditioning > > > > > * AM/FM stereo with CD player, five speakers, and subwoofer > > > > > * Specially embroidered floor mats > > > > > * Speed control > > > > > * Dual-Top option > > > > > > > > > > These vehicles are available in Silverstone Metallic or Black and > > feature > > > > > exclusive exterior badging. These special models will exist in limited > > > > > quantities and orders will only be taken for a limited time. > > > > > > > > > > I've got a picture of them in my 'Jeep History' album on Photopoint: > > > > > > > > > > For just the pic of these special editions: > > > > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=937759&a=11066673&p=39881688 > > > > > > > > > > For my whole Jeep History album: > > > > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=937759&a=11066673 > > > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > > > > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:22:31 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: Fwd: 203 Transfer case I would have thought the 205 would be about the only factory offering able to stand up to 600hp or so. Bill "Phil M." wrote: > Figured this one would be good for the Jeep list too, so I posted the > question on it and CC'd the Mopar list. > > Guys, any thoughts? > > Phil > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: motorhed > Reply-To: motorhed > To: Multiple recipients of MoPar > Subject: 203 Transfer case > Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:33:56 -0600 > > Hi all, > I have a 76 PowerWagon with the NP203 transfer case. Its old, > but still works fine. I was wondering what kind of power this case will > take ? I run a 413 Wedge, (non-stock) that makes 450-460 hp on 93 > octane. I want to add a "resonable" nitrous system, maybe 125-150 hp > max. I'm worried I'm looking for trouble. > Should I rebuild the 203 or swap in a newer unit, like a 205 > gear type. > Any idea's ??? I plan on drag racing it a little this year. Already runs > low > 14's at over 100mph in street trim.. > Thanks !! > Darel > > To unsubscribe send mail to unsubscribe-at-mopar.tamu.edu. > > For more information see http://www.moparmailinglist.org > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:31:48 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? "Paul W." wrote: > Ford F-150 & Bronco's from 78 up to the new 'Light Duty F-series' body style... > yes, this means the hubs and rotors from all those TTB trucks with the funky > looking stamped IFS D44's. Oh good - so I knew the day would come that i would regret *giving* away a brand new set of Warn premium hubs that were for my old '83 Bronco that I got rid off !! So - If you has access to any/all parts, how would you fill out the following list (years/make/model) for the best set-up: yoke: knuckle: balljoint: spindle: stub shaft: hub: seals: wheel bearings: caliper: brake pads: rotor: steering tie rod ends: anything else I'll need? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:58:29 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? "Paul W." wrote: > The bigger the bolt circle, the bigger the locking hub you can have, but beyond > that, I don't see any real advantage of 4.5" over 5.5" over 6.5" Wouldn;t a 6.5" rim be significantly stronger and exhibit less flex than say a 4.5" rim? > > Obviously, more studs is stronger, IF the studs are all the same size... but > the GM/SJ six lug pattern uses 7/16" studs, whereas the Ford/CJ/Scout five lug > pattern uses 1/2" studs. Which one is stronger now? Hmmm > (Seriously, I don't know - > I didn't get that far in math & physics... seems about like a wash to me > though.) Me neither - here's my advancedness (obv. didn't get far in English either!) - the GM would have a total of 42/16 of material, the Ford 40/16 - but it aint that simple, I know. I agree it's prob mute. - > > I wouldn't say there are vastly more of one wheel than the other available, > there are a lot of both. I would say the deciding factors would be a) what you > are running for a rear axle and/or b) what do most of your wheelin' friends run > - in case you have to borrow someone's spare. > My 4 main wheeling buds run: Xj - 5x4.5 YJ with Wagoneer axles - 6x5.5 YJ with Scout D44s - 5x5.5 YJ with Dodge D60's - some huge 12 million lug monstrosity! So that doesn't really narrow it down With the rear axle hassle regarding my "never to be forsaken" disc brakes, I'll either use a "convertor" or put up with differnt wheels. So it prob makes most sense for me to use the whole Chevy assembly from the knuckle out if I can find it, and get parts around here easily. if not - prob. the Ford (esp. TTB) would be dead easy to find in a yard and easy/cheap to get parts for too. I just loose the flat top knuckle and slightly better caliper. No big prob - I could fab a "MORE" style steering bracket and always use the GM calipers. I think I'm getting it. Whadda ya think? Bill (enjoys the research & planning most, the wrenching next, and never actually ever has the thing servicable enough to 'wheel!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? The 1st 20 questions were free... these will cost you $1 (US) each ;) samfans wrote: > "Paul W." wrote: > > Ford F-150 & Bronco's from 78 up to the new 'Light Duty F-series' body > > style... yes, this means the hubs and rotors from all those TTB trucks > > with the funky looking stamped IFS D44's. > > Oh good - so I knew the day would come that i would regret *giving* away a > brand new set of Warn premium hubs that were for my old '83 Bronco that I > got rid off !! At least these hubs aren't too expensive, even in Premium. > So - If you has access to any/all parts, how would you fill out the following > list (years/make/model) for the best set-up: > > yoke: Any year CJ/Scout open knuckle Dana 30 - if you mean knuckle yoke. > knuckle: 73-76 GM if you want to go Hi-Steer. 74-76 SJ is 2nd choice (you'd have to do stud work to both instead of just the GM's RH unit) If you want to run a lower tie rod (like I did - or like a YJ) any 73-up GM, 74-up SJ, 78-up Ford, 72-up CJ D30. I don't really recommend the Scout D30 or D44 knuckle like I used, you'll loose too much turning radius due to the length of the steering arms on these knuckles and the inability of the XJ to accomodate a Scout pitman arm - which is long enough to make up for the long armed knuckles. > balljoint: The ones that go to the knuckle you choose. Moog, Dana/Spicer or other quality replacements. > spindle: That matches the hub you use. > stub shaft: GM/SJ if you run OEM internal hubs... these will work with the Ford hub & rotor, too. Scout D44 if you run external hubs or the shorter Scout/CJ internal hub conversion kit from Warn. (Both of these stub shafts are available in HD alloy from Warn, too.) > hub: Depends on what wheel bolt pattern & locking hub you desire. 78-up F-150/Bronco for 5x5.5 w/internal hubs. 73-76 GM or 74-76 SJ for 6x5.5 w/internal hubs 74-80 IH Scout D44 or 77-78 CJ D30 for 5x5.5 w/external hub Warn CJ/Scout hub conversion for 5x5.5 w/high spline, short internal locking hubs. (The CJ/Scout stubs are 27 spline vs the 19 of the OEM internal hub) > seals: Your favorite brand to match the hub/spindle choice. > wheel bearings: Same as seals. Personally, I prefer "Made in USA" Timken... (Not all Timken bearings are US made, but the ones that are seem to be of higher quality than China, Brasil or the like.) > caliper: GM/SJ in the year spread mentioned. > brake pads: To match the caliper. Whatever you like best for brand, I usually go for a lifetime pad from whoever is cheapest at the time. > rotor: The one that goes with the hub. > steering tie rod ends: Moog or other quality brand > anything else I'll need? You'll need to figure out your own brake hoses for the calipers you use. And you may find the XJ master cylinder doesn't put out the flow these bigger calipers require, so you'll also need to upgrade the master cylinder. I'm using a m/c from a '78 Mercury Marquis w/hydroboost. I followed the article Ron Hollatz on Jeepwire for his YJ: http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/tech/brakes/yjmc/ Paul (Just kidding about the $1/answer ;) __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:48:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: axle question - turn knuckles ?? samfans wrote: > "Paul W." wrote: > > The bigger the bolt circle, the bigger the locking hub you can have, but > > beyond that, I don't see any real advantage of 4.5" over 5.5" over 6.5" > > Wouldn;t a 6.5" rim be significantly stronger and exhibit less flex than say > a 4.5" rim? All other things being equal, I suppose so... but I've never seen this come into play in real life. > > Obviously, more studs is stronger, IF the studs are all the same size... > > but the GM/SJ six lug pattern uses 7/16" studs, whereas the Ford/CJ/Scout > > five lug pattern uses 1/2" studs. Which one is stronger now? > > Hmmm > > > (Seriously, I don't know - > > I didn't get that far in math & physics... seems about like a wash to me > > though.) > > Me neither - here's my advancedness (obv. didn't get far in English either!) > - the GM would have a total of 42/16 of material, the Ford 40/16 - but it aint > that simple, I know. > > I agree it's prob mute. - Like I said, it boild down to which one YOU want. If you wheel with a bunch of GM, SJ & Toyota guys, you might like 6 lug better. If you wheel with a bunch of CJ & Sami guys, you may prefer the 5. Or maybe decide on what you can dig up for the least $$$... > > I wouldn't say there are vastly more of one wheel than the other available, > > there are a lot of both. I would say the deciding factors would be a) what > > you are running for a rear axle and/or b) what do most of your wheelin' > > friends run - in case you have to borrow someone's spare. > > > > My 4 main wheeling buds run: > Xj - 5x4.5 > YJ with Wagoneer axles - 6x5.5 > YJ with Scout D44s - 5x5.5 > YJ with Dodge D60's - some huge 12 million lug monstrosity! > > So that doesn't really narrow it down so maybe the wallet decision will apply better? > With the rear axle hassle regarding my "never to be forsaken" disc brakes, > I'll either use a "convertor" or put up with differnt wheels. > > So it prob makes most sense for me to use the whole Chevy assembly from the > knuckle out if I can find it, and get parts around here easily. > if not - prob. the Ford (esp. TTB) would be dead easy to find in a yard and > easy/cheap to get parts for too. I just loose the flat top knuckle and > slightly better caliper. No big prob - I could fab a "MORE" style steering > bracket and always use the GM calipers. > > I think I'm getting it. Whadda ya think? Sounds like you're doin' well... ready for the pop quiz? ;) Paul __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 20:10:34 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: fuel costs it looks like prices are coming down, but not all over... Everett, WA area: regular: 1.44 - 1.59 + Diesel: 1.61 - 1.79 also, what's the price you pay for Electricity in your area? how much per kilowatt hour? thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 06:11:14 -0500 From: "B. C." Subject: xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? Greetings To The XJ World! I picked up the USS Cherokee from the dealer today from the completion of the body work after the accident. It looks real good considering what they had to work with. So I went and picked up a case of oil at the parts department and told them that I would need a case of filters for an 88 XJ with a 4.0. I might as well put the good stuff in sense my discount makes it price out at the same amount as the junky stuff at the stack'm deep, sell'm cheap parts stores. There was a new guy at the counter who said that they had 2 filters. They just do not stock this size very much anymore. So as I'm driving home I'm thinking, (a dangerous habit. I try to avoid. ) I thought the new cherokee's still offer the 4.0? Does this mean that they use a different filter on the new ones? Or did the filter change when they went to the hi-output 4.0 in the early 90's? Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post END TRANSMISSION.................................... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:59:24 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? The filter changed on the HO's. don't know about the newest XJ's but I know that the old non-ho's didn't use the same filter as the HO's. Bob > I thought the new cherokee's still offer the 4.0? Does this >mean that they use a different filter on the new ones? Or did the >filter change when they went to the hi-output 4.0 in the early 90's? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 09:44:33 -0600 From: Scott Rozman Subject: Re: xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? There is also some kind of dealer part adapter for the earlier 4.0 that will allow using a more common oil filter. I have not done this change, but somebody had done it and written it up on a webpage. If you find the number please post back to the group. Scott Bob Mock wrote: > The filter changed on the HO's. don't know about the newest XJ's but I > know that the old non-ho's didn't use the same filter as the HO's. > > Bob > > > >> I thought the new cherokee's still offer the 4.0? Does this >> mean that they use a different filter on the new ones? Or did the >> filter change when they went to the hi-output 4.0 in the early 90's? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 18:15:03 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: 4.0's is 4.0's?? Courtesy Jason Hansen: order part # 53007564 your problems will be solved. It is a new standpipe (Chrysler calls it a connector) with standard thread on the filter end. Then you can use whatever filter you want-I use the standard Chrysler 92+ short filter but a PER1A/PH8A will fit on too. This connector will pay for itself in no time in lower filter costs, but make sure you educate whoever is changing the oil not to use the metric model! Hope this helps somebody. Jason Hansen Also on his page at: http://homepages.msn.com/YosemiteDr/xjhansen/ Scott Rozman wrote: > There is also some kind of dealer part adapter for the earlier 4.0 that > will allow using a more common oil filter. I have not done this change, > but somebody had done it and written it up on a webpage. If you find > the number please post back to the group. > > Scott > > Bob Mock wrote: > > > The filter changed on the HO's. don't know about the newest XJ's but I > > know that the old non-ho's didn't use the same filter as the HO's. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > >> I thought the new cherokee's still offer the 4.0? Does this > >> mean that they use a different filter on the new ones? Or did the > >> filter change when they went to the hi-output 4.0 in the early 90's? ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1075 *************************