From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Feb 8 11:55:18 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, February 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1078 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Not Cruzin' Any More xj: Robert Meredith here? xj: Re: Robert Meredith here? xj: decision day coming... xj: Re: decision day coming... xj: panic? I don't think so! Re: xj: high then low oil pressure xj: Re: fsj: fuel costs Re: xj: high then low oil pressure Re: xj: high then low oil pressure Re: xj: high then low oil pressure xj: reply to Paul re gas in oil etc Re: xj: Can anyone help me source parts? xj: Re: [Fwd: Not Cruzin' Any More] More Information Re: xj: Can anyone help me source parts? xj: [Fwd: Not Cruzin' Any More] More Information XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:07:15 -0500 From: "B. C." Subject: xj: Not Cruzin' Any More Greetings To The XJ World! Well I drove the USS Cherokee to the office this morning, and used the cruise control for the entire trip with no problem. Then when I went out this afternoon to do site survey's; and the cruise control would not work; it failed to work the rest of the day. Here is the interesting part. If you engage the set button the system snaps the excelerator petal away from your foot, as it always has done, to signify its taking control; but then after 4 seconds the system is nolonger holding any sort of speed. It has by this point totally disengaged. Sometimes you can press resume and it will accelerate nicely; but once you hit set, it will not hold speed more then 4 seconds. So what are the thoughts here people??? Now we are talking about an 88 with the 4.0 motor for those who can not keep up with who is driving what these days. - -- Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post END TRANSMISSION.................................... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:54:24 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: Robert Meredith here? Looking for Robert Meredith - I passed on some Tomken info to him for my friend JohnJohn, but JJ is on the road this week and lost Robert's email address. If he's on this list, please have him email me asap. Thanks, Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com office astorms-at-edgeinteractive.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:30:00 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: Re: Robert Meredith here? found him....:) thanks, Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Storms To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: xj: Robert Meredith here? > Looking for Robert Meredith - I passed on some Tomken info to him for my > friend JohnJohn, but JJ is on the road this week and lost Robert's email > address. If he's on this list, please have him email me asap. Thanks, Aaron > > Aaron Storms > Black Hawk, CO > aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com > > office > astorms-at-edgeinteractive.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:30:57 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: decision day coming... Well, one of my friends on the xj list spotted a super nice '83 Cherokee on the south end of Seattle... turns out I'd seen the rig last year at the Puyallup Swap meet, even have a picture of it already! I contacted the owner and will meet him Sunday. :) I'm dropping the insurance on Superdawg (my '83 J10 Stepside), but will do it midnight Sunday so I can drive him to the meeting. I'm going to drive the Cherokee and see if the ride is better. Then I'm gonna get a feel for rearward visibility... The price tag on this Cherokee is high... and it's got the 360, y'all know how much I love those wonderful oil and vacuum leaking boat anchors... :) and to make it worse, it's red, but not a nice red... a kind of rust/brown red... Anyway, I asked, and it was found. Thanx again Terry! So, now I must make up my flippin' mind... those that know me know that this is unlikely... ;) Maybe I'll keep SuperDawg and buy the Cherokee too... after all I haven't had a car payment in over 15 years, never had a new car and ain't getting my garage because the wife went over budget on the kitchen remodel... but I still need to sell the '83 300SD to put it all together... someone please by this Benz, it's a beautiful car... but see, that's the problem... it's just a car... can't you see I'm an FSJ addict??? ;) This is a tough decision... fix the J10 or start over on a Cherokee... The Cherokee has some impending problems most likely in the trans/xfr case area, has 33x12's on it... has many leaks... I'm thinking I'd want to do a 4.0L conversion, or maybe more realistically a V8 with FI on it... but that's expensive... and the cost will quickly exceed what I may see out of SuperDawg... The question for me is if the Cherokee will feel as nice to me as the J10. My wife and family will like the Cherokee better. Stuff will stay dry in the back (big issue here. ;). On the other hand the Cherokee will be heavier, will have the pain in the glass rear window... I've driven or ridden in a couple WT Cherokees, and they are nice... I think the spring rate and wheelbase will net a more pleasant overall ride, and that will probably sway me toward the Cherokee... I'll probably move some of my add-on's from the J10 over to the Cherokee, and some of those to the J10... this also takes time... of course it seems that I make time for such fruitless activity... actually, it's quality time with a Jeep, right???? ;) you know, a car payment on a nice new WJ might not be that bad... if I sold ALL my parts, extra computer stuff, and so on... well, I might be able to afford at least two, maybe three payments... right? sleepless in snohomish, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:48:09 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: Re: decision day coming... John, I replaced all the gaskets and seals possible without taking apart the entire 360 and finally got it swapped into the 69 Commando this last Sat - hope to avoid all the leaks you warned me about! I looked up the distributor in the FSM to see what year the donor was and it's a 76-77, so hope those were good years! Also found out that it only has 165 horsepower, but is supposed to make up for that shortcoming with torque. Sure looks good all painted up nice to match the body, but I still have to rebuild the carb and wire and plumb and .....Aaron Aaron Storms Black Hawk, CO aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: john > I'm going to drive the Cherokee and see if the ride is better. Then > I'm gonna get a feel for rearward visibility... The price tag on this > Cherokee is high... and it's got the 360, y'all know how much I love > those wonderful oil and vacuum leaking boat anchors... :) and to make > it worse, it's red, but not a nice red... a kind of rust/brown red... > The Cherokee has some impending problems most likely in the trans/xfr case > area, has 33x12's on it... has many leaks... I'm thinking I'd want to do > a 4.0L conversion, or maybe more realistically a V8 with FI on it... but > that's expensive... and the cost will quickly exceed what I may see out of > SuperDawg... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:54:12 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: panic? I don't think so! an extract from steve poole's report: http://www.komotv.com/weather/index.html > However, showers will stick around all through Thursday and Friday, > and just be aware that they could be slushy -- especially at night when, of > course, it is cooler. And, as usual, those of you in higher elevations, > the North Sound, or near the Hood Canal have a higher chance of > seeing snow/wet snow. But to stress again: this is not a large arctic > outbreak. We're in a borderline-snow situation, so we're not anticipating > any large-scale travel problems or school closures. So don't panic :) panic? panic? bring it on!!! :) See, I almost dropped the insurance on my J10 today... I faked the weather out... gonna wait until Sunday.. ;) btw, doc, if you're listening: snow, it's kind of yellow and tastes great... ;) I could see about fed-ex'ing some to you if you'd like... rofl... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:36:06 EST From: GadgetDan-at-aol.com Subject: Re: xj: high then low oil pressure Bob Mock writes: > after it's been running for a long time at idle it appears to be slightly below > 20psi. It does go up when on the throttle but it doesn't stay steady. > I had installed a pump from napa on the old motor and it would NEVER > waiver off 40psi...so maybe I'm in for that in the spring. > > Any ideas? Was the Napa pump a high volume pump? It could simply be that the new pump is completely normal. Both pumps would top out at about the same pressure because the bypass valve is still the same. - -- (digest mode, CC: me please) Dan Pierce --- GadgetDan-at-aol.com --- Bailey, MI 1986 Concours "Hardcours" --- 1989 Jeep Cherokee Limited IBA#7057 http://www.ironbutt.com/ --- NRA http://www.nra.org/ http://members.aol.com/gadgetdan/GadgetDansGarage.htm Never quit, even when you are ahead. Join the NRA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:59:24 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: fsj: fuel costs At 06:32 PM 2/7/01 +0100, Sune Cullberg wrote: >Gas 9.52 swedish krona / liter....0,98 $ x 3,785 = 3,71$/us gallon >diesel 8.75-9.45 " / liter.....0,90-0,97$ x 3,785 = 3,40-3,70$ /us gallon > >Electricity incl tax and tax on tax >0.57 krona / kWh.... 0,0588$ > >Sune, >Goteborg,Sweden electric here went up a bit to about 0,065$ (that's $0.065 / kwh for americans...;) Didn't realize the electric costs were so low in Europe! >At 20:10 2001-02-03 -0800, you wrote: >>it looks like prices are coming down, but not all over... >>Everett, WA area: >>regular: 1.44 - 1.59 + >>Diesel: 1.61 - 1.79 >>also, what's the price you pay for Electricity in your area? >>how much per kilowatt hour? - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:00:23 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: high then low oil pressure no the napa pump was just a standard replacement pump. But there was talk a while back about the factory pump not being cast iron like some of the aftermarket pumps. I don't know if this would make any difference. Also I heard a trick one time from a drag racing friend that said I could take apart the pump and 'stretch' the spring a little and that would increase the oil pressure. is this true? Bob >Was the Napa pump a high volume pump? It could simply be that the new pump >is completely normal. Both pumps would top out at about the same pressure >because the bypass valve is still the same. > >-- (digest mode, CC: me please) >Dan Pierce --- GadgetDan-at-aol.com --- Bailey, MI >1986 Concours "Hardcours" --- 1989 Jeep Cherokee Limited >IBA#7057 http://www.ironbutt.com/ --- NRA http://www.nra.org/ >http://members.aol.com/gadgetdan/GadgetDansGarage.htm > >Never quit, even when you are ahead. Join the NRA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:04:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: high then low oil pressure Bob Mock wrote: > Also I heard a trick one time from a drag racing friend that said I could > take apart the pump and 'stretch' the spring a little and that would > increase the oil pressure. is this true? It might work, but I wouldn't expect any great increses becuase I don't think stretching it would make a big difference in the spring rate. When I was running the stock 225 V6 in my CJ, low oil pressure at low RPM was a common malady (like ~0-5psi at idle to 35-40psi at 2500+RPM). The fix was to install a high volume oil pump and a higher pressure spring. The kits for the 225 came with the Hi-Vol pump and three different oil pressure springs, a 40psi, 60psi and a 70psi. They were color coded, but if you looked closely at them, you could tell them apart from the size of the wire, AND their free length. A friend had bought one of these kits for his Jeep and gave me the 70 psi spring to try in mine so we could see if the spring alone would cure the low RPM/low oil pressure problem. It didn't work... still had really low oil pressure at low speed... but it would go up to 70psi -at- ~3000 RPM Based on this experience, I'd recommend an aftermarket high volume oil pump (like a Melling). I think ~40-60psi max pressure is plenty for most of us. Paul Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:53:56 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: high then low oil pressure That's what I pretty much figured. I bought a pump at Napa (Melling) but I don't know if it was high volume or not. It was just the standard pump napa sold, but it never dipped below 40. I guess I'm leary of getting a high-volume pump as there is always that sort of 'pump the well dry myth' of the high volume pump pumping too much through the motor and when on incline there might not be any left in the sump. But I don't konw that this would ever really happen. I need to grab hold of a mechanical guage and really check it first before I tear the pan off. Lord knows i've done it enough to be a pro at it though. Bob >It might work, but I wouldn't expect any great increses becuase I don't think >stretching it would make a big difference in the spring rate. When I was >running the stock 225 V6 in my CJ, low oil pressure at low RPM was a common >malady (like ~0-5psi at idle to 35-40psi at 2500+RPM). The fix was to install >a high volume oil pump and a higher pressure spring. The kits for the 225 >came >with the Hi-Vol pump and three different oil pressure springs, a 40psi, 60psi >and a 70psi. They were color coded, but if you looked closely at them, you >could tell them apart from the size of the wire, AND their free length. A >friend had bought one of these kits for his Jeep and gave me the 70 psi spring >to try in mine so we could see if the spring alone would cure the low RPM/low >oil pressure problem. It didn't work... still had really low oil pressure at >low speed... but it would go up to 70psi -at- ~3000 RPM > >Based on this experience, I'd recommend an aftermarket high volume oil pump >(like a Melling). I think ~40-60psi max pressure is plenty for most of us. > >Paul >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:07:25 -0600 From: "Randolph A Bennell" Subject: xj: reply to Paul re gas in oil etc "Running rich can wash the cylinder walls of oil, but how is the fuel supposed to get out of the cylinder and into the cam/lifter gallery that is beside the cylinders? I seriously doubt that it could run at a mixture rich enough to dilute the oil. Gasoline will not stay in motor oil very long. It will evaporate when the engine is warm... It's an old cold weather trick Alaskan bush pilots use to start their airplanes in the winter if they forget to take their oil to bed with them... thin the oil with gas so it will flow enough that the starter can turn the motor over and once the engine is warm, the gas disappears. Paul" You are most likely correct. I am uncertain as to whether this could be a problem or not. I was just thinking out loud. The owner was commenting that he thought it was running very rich and wondering if that was part of his problem. I still wonder how the oil is and whether the heat in the motor would be sufficient to burn off any gasoline that ended up in the crankcase. I have seen oil come out of a crankcase like water and smell strongly of gasoline. In those couple of instances, that I have personally seen, there was no immediately discernible engine damage but so far as I know the engine had not been run for any length of time in that condition. The owner in this case hasn't indicated any problems with the rest of the engine components. If the oil was diluted enough to cause trouble, then one would expect the damage to be more widespread. Randy in Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:12:45 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: Can anyone help me source parts? Paul, A couple more questions: 1) When the parts shops quote prices for rotors they always seem to quote 2 prices, with hub and without. Do they mean the actual manual locking hub, or the spindle or what?? 2) Uh, damnit - can;t remember. Brain really turning to mush. Bill "Paul W." wrote: > Here's a note front channel... > > So did you find some Scout or CJ Dana 30 knuckle yokes? > (Come to think of it, you could probably use Early Bronco D30 yokes, too.) > > And you did notice in my write-up > that this swap on a > XJ or later D30 will require new inner axles, right? > > ...or are you swapping in a D44 front end? > > > I don't have any spare GM stuff that I want to part with (OK, call me greedy > ;), but you can buy the RH knuckle already modified thru Parts Mike > His $220 price for a pair of > steering arms aren't what I'd consider cheap, but they are top notch quality. > > You can get plain stocker stuff thru my favorite local 4x4 yard, Olympic 4x4 > Supply Though I would think you should be able > to find them a LOT closer... and maybe even cheaper, especially if you can find > someone parting out a truck. (Keep an eye out for rusting hulks beside barns > and houses out in the country.) > > Paul > (Cut a Chevy D44 out of the blackberries on an old country guy's place and only > paid $35... but I didn't spot it from the road, got a phone tip.) > > --- samfans wrote: > > Guys, > > > > I don't want to be a pain in the but, but I'm having troube sourcing the > > parts I need for my axle knuckle swap. There's nothing available > > locally. > > > > If anyone has easy access to good yards or other easy access to parts, > > and perhaps could help me out, a nice little finders fee could be yours > > (along with undying gratitude and REALLY GOOD Jeep karma)! > > > > Drop me a note backchannel if you can help. > > > > I'm mailny interested in finding: > > > > 73-76 GM 4x4 1.2 ton > > steering knuckles, front axle stub shafts, and spindles....hubs too if > > they're in good shape - but I was thinking I'd do new Warn premiums > > > > Or > > > > 74-76 SJ > > steering knuckles, front axle stub shafts, and spindles....hubs too if > > they're in good shape - but I was thinking I'd do new Warn premiums > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 16:37:53 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: [Fwd: Not Cruzin' Any More] More Information take each connector apart and reseat them... maybe use some contact cleaner on them... sounds like a bad connection. john At 07:35 PM 2/7/01 -0500, B. C. wrote: >Greetings To The XJ World! > >Well nobody has responded back on this one yet; and we have not >generated a digest today; so I figured that I would give you more >information that I have observed about this problem. I will bullet the >information into the original text below. So just read it here from the >top for the full latest story. > >Greetings To The XJ World! > >Well I drove the USS Cherokee to the office this morning, and used the >cruise control for the entire trip with no problem. Then when I went >out this afternoon to do site survey's; and the cruise control would not >work; it failed to work the rest of the day. > >Here is the interesting part. If you engage the set button the system >snaps the excelerator petal away from your foot, as it always has done, >to signify its taking control; but then after 4 seconds the system is >nolonger holding any sort of speed. It has by this point totally >disengaged. Sometimes you can press resume and it will accelerate >nicely; but once you hit set, it will not hold speed more then 4 >seconds. > >NEW MATERIAL: There is now a clicking sound coming from behind the dash >on the drivers side of the truck. It sounds like a relay switching off >and on. It happens like the ticking of a clock once the truck is >accelerated above 30MPH. It happens if the main cruise control switch >is set either on or off. You can not duplicate this clicking by simply >revving the engine at a standing stop; the truck has to be moving. No >other accessories are on at the time of the clicking. If you set the >cruise control when you hear the next click, the system disengages. > >So what are the thoughts here people??? Now we are talking about an 88 >with the 4.0 motor and a 4 speed automatic for those who can not keep >up with who is driving >what these days. > >-- >Until The Next Dimension, >Admiral "Coluch." >Starfleet Headquarters >Ohio Post >END TRANSMISSION.................................... - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 20:47:58 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: Can anyone help me source parts? samfans wrote: > > > 2) Uh, damnit - can;t remember. Brain really turning to mush. I 'member now. About the balljoints - If I use a CJ D30 knuckle "yoke" and a '76 GM Steering knuckle, do i use balljoints for the CJ or Chevy? Thaks Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:35:21 -0500 From: "B. C." Subject: xj: [Fwd: Not Cruzin' Any More] More Information Greetings To The XJ World! Well nobody has responded back on this one yet; and we have not generated a digest today; so I figured that I would give you more information that I have observed about this problem. I will bullet the information into the original text below. So just read it here from the top for the full latest story. Greetings To The XJ World! Well I drove the USS Cherokee to the office this morning, and used the cruise control for the entire trip with no problem. Then when I went out this afternoon to do site survey's; and the cruise control would not work; it failed to work the rest of the day. Here is the interesting part. If you engage the set button the system snaps the excelerator petal away from your foot, as it always has done, to signify its taking control; but then after 4 seconds the system is nolonger holding any sort of speed. It has by this point totally disengaged. Sometimes you can press resume and it will accelerate nicely; but once you hit set, it will not hold speed more then 4 seconds. NEW MATERIAL: There is now a clicking sound coming from behind the dash on the drivers side of the truck. It sounds like a relay switching off and on. It happens like the ticking of a clock once the truck is accelerated above 30MPH. It happens if the main cruise control switch is set either on or off. You can not duplicate this clicking by simply revving the engine at a standing stop; the truck has to be moving. No other accessories are on at the time of the clicking. If you set the cruise control when you hear the next click, the system disengages. So what are the thoughts here people??? Now we are talking about an 88 with the 4.0 motor and a 4 speed automatic for those who can not keep up with who is driving what these days. - -- Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post END TRANSMISSION.................................... ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1078 *************************