From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Feb 11 14:17:08 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Saturday, February 10 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1080 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff Re: xj: Another way to phrase my question.... Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff xj: Re: Help Please xj: quick off-topic note xj: Driveshaft Re: xj: Driveshaft xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts xj: Re: CJ-7 Diesel Engine swap xj: if you haven't seen this... ;) Re: xj: if you haven't seen this... ;) Re: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts RE: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts RE: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:00:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff Bill- two solutions to your problem... 1) Keep everything GM and have the hub and rotor re-drilled to 5x5.5 - I _KNOW_ this can be done because I've seen it several times. Unless you get a deal on the machine work though (like you have the tools & equipment, or you have a friend...) it probably isn't cost effective... but like I said, it can be done. 2) Use a Ford spindle, hub & rotor assy. Brake caliper bracket (which is also a dust shield) & calipers stay GM, as does the stub axle. Paul - --- samfans wrote: > Paul, Jeff, etc. > > Found out an interesting thing that wrinkles my plan, but not badly. > > I was going to go 6x5.5. But the rear axle becomes a real concern. No > way the ZJ disc brakes will convert to 6x5.5, and I'm not loosing them > or starting another rear axle. So custom 6x5.5 shafts are out. I have > my doubts about drilling the rotors to 5x5.5 also. So the easiest > solution out back is a custom adapter. Min width is 1", so that's not > too bad, and they mount between wheel and brakes, so no screwing with > the brakes is required. > > Thing is - thay can;t make an adapter to change 5x4.5 to 6x5.5, they > can;t change the number of studs. They can do 5x4.5 to 5x5.5. At $100 > a pair, billet aluminum, it seems like a plan to me. > > So that means I need to go 5x5.5 in front too. I have a line on and > still want the Chevy flat top knuckles, so it's a custom mix that's > required now. > > This leads me to my questions (going scrounging tomorrow). OK, I'll use > the Chev knuckles and stub shafts. But I need Ford hubs, spindles, and > rotors right? > > What about the caliper mounting bracket and dust shield - which do I > use? I'm still kinda confused as to what parts are all involved. > > Bill Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:05:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Another way to phrase my question.... If you're going to buy new rotors and they only cost $40CDN extra to get the hub, I'd go that way. You will need Ford spindles though (last time I priced new spindles, they were ~$80US/ea for the CJ/Scout - that may give you an idea of what to expect)... everything else can stay GM. Paul - --- samfans wrote: > I'm getting 76 Chevy knuckles out. > > i need to go 5x5.5. > > Which Ford parts do i need to scrounge from the yard that I won't get as > cheap regular replacement parts. > > For example - I plan to buy new rotors and Warn premium locking hubs. > But do i need to find ford "spindles", what about the "hub" bit that is > quoted with the rotor sometimes - worth scrounging or just buy new > (about $40 cdn ea. locally) > > Anything else ford i'll need while I'm there? > > Bill Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:23:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff samfans wrote: > How does the caliper mount on the Chevy? With a caliper bracket/dust shield that attaches with the same studs as the spindle. Similar to this: http://www.outdoorwire.com/content/4x4/jeep/tech/axle/xjupgrades/17.jpg (This is a Scout caliper bracket & dust shield which are two separate pieces, but attach to knuckle just like the GM stuff.) > I just picked up Chevy knuckles, and Ford stub shaft (only had 1 side), > spindles, rotors and hubs. > > The Ford knuckles appeared to have the caliper mount as part of the knuckle, > but I didn't get the Ford knuckles. Not on the Chevy - all i got was the > knuckles themselves. > > What shall I do? Get the GM caliper brackets Paul Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:55:58 -0400 From: samfans Subject: Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff Can the stub axle be Ford - they had no Chevy stub axles' just the knuckles themselves (less the caliper brackets) so i got the F-150 stub axles to go with the spindles, hubs, rotors - which all looked useable. Nutter's article seemed to suggest this would work. Also - since I'm now looking for Chevy caliper brackets / dust shields - Is it the same 73-76 year spread I need? Any chance anyone can scan an exploded pic of the chevy setup? Bill "Paul W." wrote: > Bill- two solutions to your problem... > 1) Keep everything GM and have the hub and rotor re-drilled to 5x5.5 - I _KNOW_ > this can be done because I've seen it several times. Unless you get a deal on > the machine work though (like you have the tools & equipment, or you have a > friend...) it probably isn't cost effective... but like I said, it can be done. > > 2) Use a Ford spindle, hub & rotor assy. Brake caliper bracket (which is also > a dust shield) & calipers stay GM, as does the stub axle. > > Paul > > --- samfans wrote: > > Paul, Jeff, etc. > > > > Found out an interesting thing that wrinkles my plan, but not badly. > > > > I was going to go 6x5.5. But the rear axle becomes a real concern. No > > way the ZJ disc brakes will convert to 6x5.5, and I'm not loosing them > > or starting another rear axle. So custom 6x5.5 shafts are out. I have > > my doubts about drilling the rotors to 5x5.5 also. So the easiest > > solution out back is a custom adapter. Min width is 1", so that's not > > too bad, and they mount between wheel and brakes, so no screwing with > > the brakes is required. > > > > Thing is - thay can;t make an adapter to change 5x4.5 to 6x5.5, they > > can;t change the number of studs. They can do 5x4.5 to 5x5.5. At $100 > > a pair, billet aluminum, it seems like a plan to me. > > > > So that means I need to go 5x5.5 in front too. I have a line on and > > still want the Chevy flat top knuckles, so it's a custom mix that's > > required now. > > > > This leads me to my questions (going scrounging tomorrow). OK, I'll use > > the Chev knuckles and stub shafts. But I need Ford hubs, spindles, and > > rotors right? > > > > What about the caliper mounting bracket and dust shield - which do I > > use? I'm still kinda confused as to what parts are all involved. > > > > Bill > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:11:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff samfans wrote: > Can the stub axle be Ford - they had no Chevy stub axles' just the knuckles > themselves (less the caliper brackets) so i got the F-150 stub axles to go > with the spindles, hubs, rotors - which all looked useable. > > Nutter's article seemed to suggest this would work. It shold work. If it doesn't, it'll give you the perfect excuse to buy upgraded alloy Chevy ones - which actually don't cost any more than buying a new OEM replacement. > Also - since I'm now looking for Chevy caliper brackets / dust shields - Is > it the same 73-76 year spread I need? Yes. > Any chance anyone can scan an exploded pic of the chevy setup? If I had a digital camera, I'd take some pics for you. I'll see if I can find something online in a little while - gotta go get ready for work right now. If I don't find something, I can probably go out and take some video and convert it to jpg with my Snappy, but that won't be until at least Sunday. Paul Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:04:44 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: Help Please I started the xj list as a support group, interest group, resource group to deal with xj enthusiasts. info on subscribing in my sig file below. john At 09:35 AM 2/9/01 -0500, Ronald E. Morrell wrote: >John found you website looking last May I bought a 1990 Jeep Wagoneer and I >am looking for information about it and sources for parts. Do you know if >there is any kind of organization for the Wagoneer/Cherokee/Comanche. >Thanks for any help, >Ron Morrell > >Ronald E. Morrell >Protestant Chaplain >Colby College >4273 Mayflower Hill >Waterville, Maine 04901-8842 >Campus 3565 >207-872-3565 Office >207-968-2366 Home Office > > ------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com - http://www.wagoneers.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... http://www.wagoneers.com/john/book-info.html ------------------------------------------------- http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ http://www.digest.net/jeep/ ------------------------------------------------- jesus, don't leave life without him... ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:07:53 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: quick off-topic note The virus from "haha" has been translated into spanish too... one just bounced off the diesel-benz list. beware. don't open any of the .scr, .exe files with sexy or "enano porno" or whatever, midgets.scr, or virgin.scr or any of the multitude of variants out there... later, john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX/ PC viruses??? see http://vil.mcafee.com/villib/alpha.asp free virus protection that works: http://antivirus.cai.com/ virus myths and hoaxes: http://www.vmyths.com/ and also: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html see snopes also: http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/virus/virus.htm UNIX rules the internet and engineering computing - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:12:23 -0500 From: Brennan Shepard Subject: xj: Driveshaft In my search for a front driveshaft, I've come down to two options. One, is I can get a yoke and a shaft from Olympic, but it has to be shortened. They will do this for $150 for the shaft, yoke, and labor. This would be a DC style shaft out of a newer model XJ. Option Two is have a local guy build me a custom shaft. He says it will be a slip-splined shaft with a single u-joint on either end and he will build it with a flat flange to bolt to my flat output yoke. He can do this for me for $190. I'd rather go with a new shaft for the money, but is it worth it to get a single joint shaft? He says he's never had a problem running these on cherokees, and that he makes alot of them for the Jeep dealer to fix vibes in the front end. What do you guys think? New Shaft with single joints, or used shaft with DC joint? Thanks in advance... Brennan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:16:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Driveshaft Brennen, some questions for you first.... Where is your pinion related to the front output shaft on your t-case? Are they in parallel planes? (That's what you need (within 3*) for the single joint shaft to have a long and happy life.) Or is the pinion pointed straight at the output shaft? (That's what the DC shaft likes) Or are you somewhere in between? (In which case you _should_ make a correction to one or the other of the above options.) Which one is better? Depends on the situation. If you are looking for the ultimate in strength, the shaft with a single joint at each end is stronger... as long as you can operate it within it's design limits. Paul Brennan Shepard wrote: > In my search for a front driveshaft, I've come down to two options. One, is I > can get a yoke and a shaft from Olympic, but it has to be shortened. They > will do this for $150 for the shaft, yoke, and labor. This would be a DC style > shaft out of a newer model XJ. Option Two is have a local guy build me a > custom shaft. He says it will be a slip-splined shaft with a single u-joint > on either end and he will build it with a flat flange to bolt to my flat > output yoke. He can do this for me for $190. I'd rather go with a new shaft > for the money, but is it worth it to get a single joint shaft? He says he's > never had a problem running these on cherokees, and that he makes alot of them > for the Jeep dealer to fix vibes in the front end. What do you guys think? > New Shaft with single joints, or used shaft with DC joint? Thanks in > advance... > > Brennan Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:16:56 -0500 From: "Darren K. Page" Subject: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts Hello All, I am trying to source some used XJ Dana 44 axleshafts. I already have the diff., but I bought it without the axleshafts. Now I am trying to find some, and I only managed to find one scrapyard who has only one in stock. If anyone here has some that they want to get rid of, or you have an idea were I can find some, please let me know. FYI: scrapyard $125 Cdn. Drivetrain Direct $125 US (New, No Bearings (+$40)) Chrysler ~$900 Cdn (~$450 Cdn Dealer Cost, No Bearings) I am trying to keep costs low (I would also like a Detroit...), which is why I am looking for used shafts. I am also looking for a 4.09 ring & pinion for the same axle. Thanks. Darren K. Page Montreal, Qc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:33:41 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: CJ-7 Diesel Engine swap At 09:36 PM 2/9/01 -0500, Katherine Wright wrote: >Hello. >I was wanting to know if any one in your club may know of any diesel >engine swap for a CJ-7 with a manual Trans. >Thanks for your help. >Steve kwright-at-msmisp.com I've heard of one CJ5 that had an Olds 5.7L installed in it, if I remember correctly the thing had a T-90 3 speed, but I could be wrong, the kid was trying to sell it for his brother and even though I tried to meet up with him for over a week we never did. :( As far as converting one, if you could find one that came with the Buick V-6 or the Buick 350, late 60's for instance, then the Olds Diesel might just bolt right up. Otherwise you could take an Olds Diesel, or a Chevy 6.2/6.5L and use their tranny and either adapt a TH350/400 to the existing xfr case, or swap the entire driveline out of a Chevy pickup that had the Diesel & 4x4. Or you could use a variety of auto type Diesels, like a Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel, and there are a variety of japanese Diesels that might work, but since I avoid japanese vehicles as a matter of principle (I was "downsized" in the mid-80's from intel after the japanese were dumping DRAM's on the market, forcing intel to drop out of the market and subsequently closing the R&D wafer fab I worked at... :( So, I have been conducting a personal boycott of japanese motor vehicles. Sure, it's a weak excuse but it does help me make up my mind when choosing vehicles. ;) other options might include the driveline out of a ford pickup. then engine bay in a CJ7 is pretty similar to a full size jeep and therefore pretty easy to adapt just about anything you want in there. :) I have heard of one Grand Wagoneer with a Cummins 5.9L TD, however that would be a very tight fit and would be one noisy setup. :) There is a 3.9L Cummins that is a 4 cylinder that is also very heavy, but great for low end grunt. If I had a CJ5 I might consider the Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel setup. I had a 73 Jeepster for a while, isn't that similar to a CJ6? Anyway, didn't like the ride or feel. I'm hooked on Full Size Jeeps and XJ's. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:06:27 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: if you haven't seen this... ;) http://www.405themovie.com/ someone asked me a question about this, and I had to watch it again. no, the dc10's front landing gear would not collapse, and yes the Grand Cherokee would. ;) But that's ok, this is still a masterpiece. If you haven't seen it yet, you need to. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:49:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: if you haven't seen this... ;) I think I've seen this before too - but I can't spend the time/hassle downloading the latest viewer to watch it again... but let me say this, If a 747 can land on it's nose gear doors when the gear fails to come down and still not damage the gear doors enough to keep them from closing once the plane is jacked off it's nose gear doors that should tell you something about how much of the plane's weight is carried by the nose gear and how much is carried by the mains... so it is possible to REST the nose of a 'Heavy' on a car or light truck without smashing it... (And the nose gear doors on a 747 are a lot lighter than a Grand Cherokee, though they would be stronger in the 'down' position than a Grand's roof.) Paul (Seen the real footage of a United 747 land in San Fran on it's nose gear doors when the nose gear didn't come down.) - --- john wrote: > http://www.405themovie.com/ > > someone asked me a question about this, and I had to watch it again. > no, the dc10's front landing gear would not collapse, and yes the > Grand Cherokee would. ;) > > But that's ok, this is still a masterpiece. > If you haven't seen it yet, you need to. :) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:53:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts Check with Superior Gear... I heard they have a Super 44 Kit out that is similar to their Super 35 kit... only has bigger axles. If I remember right, it come with 35 spline shafts and a matching Detroit. Also check with Moser & Dutchman - they build HD alloy axles and they typically run ~US$300/pair. Paul "Darren K. Page" wrote: > Hello All, > > I am trying to source some used XJ Dana 44 axleshafts. I already have the > diff., but I bought it without the axleshafts. Now I am trying to find some, > and I only managed to find one scrapyard who has only one in stock. If > anyone here has some that they want to get rid of, or you have an idea were > I can find some, please let me know. > > FYI: scrapyard $125 Cdn. > Drivetrain Direct $125 US (New, No Bearings (+$40)) > Chrysler ~$900 Cdn (~$450 Cdn Dealer Cost, No Bearings) > > I am trying to keep costs low (I would also like a Detroit...), which is why > I am looking for used shafts. I am also looking for a 4.09 ring & pinion for > the same axle. > > Thanks. > > Darren K. Page > Montreal, Qc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:24:01 -0500 From: "Darren K. Page" Subject: RE: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts Paul, The price quoted by Drivetrain Direct is for Superior Gear axles. When I called they also mentioned the Super 44 kit, but at the same time said that it would not be released until after July. The guy that I spoke with said that the Super 44 is the same as a stock 44 but with no taper. I wish that I could wait that long, I have had the 44 in my garage since last summer. The Superior website (http://www.superioraxle.com/New%20Products.htm) mentions TJ Dana 44's for the Super 44 kit, but no mention of XJ, and the guy from Drivetrain Direct could not confirm that it would work. What are the differences between the two models? are they more or less similar? Should I bite the bullet and wait the Super 44? If I can't find used shafts, I was just going to get the Superior axles from Drivetrain Direct anyway. Darren K. Page Montreal, Qc - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Paul W. Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 1:54 AM To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts Check with Superior Gear... I heard they have a Super 44 Kit out that is similar to their Super 35 kit... only has bigger axles. If I remember right, it come with 35 spline shafts and a matching Detroit. Also check with Moser & Dutchman - they build HD alloy axles and they typically run ~US$300/pair. Paul "Darren K. Page" wrote: > Hello All, > > I am trying to source some used XJ Dana 44 axleshafts. I already have the > diff., but I bought it without the axleshafts. Now I am trying to find some, > and I only managed to find one scrapyard who has only one in stock. If > anyone here has some that they want to get rid of, or you have an idea were > I can find some, please let me know. > > FYI: scrapyard $125 Cdn. > Drivetrain Direct $125 US (New, No Bearings (+$40)) > Chrysler ~$900 Cdn (~$450 Cdn Dealer Cost, No Bearings) > > I am trying to keep costs low (I would also like a Detroit...), which is why > I am looking for used shafts. I am also looking for a 4.09 ring & pinion for > the same axle. > > Thanks. > > Darren K. Page > Montreal, Qc Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: RE: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts I don't know what the difference is, but from what I've heard from Warn, the TJ D44 is different from the XJ D44 - and the XJ D44 comes in at least two versions (one of the contributing factors to Warn discontinuing the XJ D44 floater kit). If all the Super 44 kit is is a standard D44 30 spline with no taper, you can get axles like that from lots of sources... the kicker is you need to know how long the axles need to be so you need to know which pair of axles your housing takes. I would suggest finding the Dana/Spicer Bill of Materials (BOM) number and checking with someone like Randy's Ring & Pinion, Reider Racing or Drivetrain Direct to see which OEM axles you would need and hopefully, they can give you the lengths. The BOM is stamped in one of the axle tubes and it is not usually stamped real deep, so it may take some scrubbing with a wire brush to find it. Paul - --- "Darren K. Page" wrote: > Paul, > > The price quoted by Drivetrain Direct is for Superior Gear axles. When I > called they also mentioned the Super 44 kit, but at the same time said that > it would not be released until after July. The guy that I spoke with said > that the Super 44 is the same as a stock 44 but with no taper. I wish that I > could wait that long, I have had the 44 in my garage since last summer. > > The Superior website (http://www.superioraxle.com/New%20Products.htm) > mentions TJ Dana 44's for the Super 44 kit, but no mention of XJ, and the > guy from Drivetrain Direct could not confirm that it would work. What are > the differences between the two models? are they more or less similar? > > Should I bite the bullet and wait the Super 44? If I can't find used shafts, > I was just going to get the Superior axles from Drivetrain Direct anyway. > > Darren K. Page > Montreal, Qc > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Paul > W. > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 1:54 AM > To: xj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: xj: Looking for XJ Dana 44 axleshafts > > > Check with Superior Gear... I heard they have a Super 44 Kit out that is > similar to their Super 35 kit... only has bigger axles. If I remember > right, > it come with 35 spline shafts and a matching Detroit. > > Also check with Moser & Dutchman - they build HD alloy axles and they > typically > run ~US$300/pair. > > > Paul > > > "Darren K. Page" wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > I am trying to source some used XJ Dana 44 axleshafts. I already have the > > diff., but I bought it without the axleshafts. Now I am trying to find > some, > > and I only managed to find one scrapyard who has only one in stock. If > > anyone here has some that they want to get rid of, or you have an idea > were > > I can find some, please let me know. > > > > FYI: scrapyard $125 Cdn. > > Drivetrain Direct $125 US (New, No Bearings (+$40)) > > Chrysler ~$900 Cdn (~$450 Cdn Dealer Cost, No Bearings) > > > > I am trying to keep costs low (I would also like a Detroit...), which is > why > > I am looking for used shafts. I am also looking for a 4.09 ring & pinion > for > > the same axle. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Darren K. Page > > Montreal, Qc > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1080 *************************