From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Feb 12 09:31:25 2001 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, February 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1083 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: rust free '83 Cherokee for sale xj: other spring options Re: xj: the 80 and the 83 cherokee... xj: doug's dilema Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff xj: Re: Replacing engine mounts question. xj: nigel's motor mounts xj: puyallup 4x4 swap meet (WA) March 11??? xj: Re: Puyallup 4x4 swap meet (WA) March 11 Re: xj: puyallup 4x4 swap meet (WA) March 11??? Re: xj: Puyallup WA 4x4 swap meet March 11 (Sun) Re: xj: Re: rebuilt but won't start Re: xj: other spring options Re: xj: Re: rebuilt but won't start xj: Leaf SPrings Sagging - SUCCESS! XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:17:38 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: rust free '83 Cherokee for sale what a weekend... first the mythical M715 hunt, snowy passes with crashes, working on a sunny sunday rebooting systems, looking at an '83 Cherokee and buying an 80 cherokee without even looking at it... ;) here's the 83 cherokee that rick is selling for $5,000 asking price, it's loaded, it needs some carb work that I he'll handle, it's super clean: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/83-Cherokee all pix: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/83-Cherokee/ALL-pix.html rick's number is 253.537.7807 he's down by puyallup. that's south of Seattle... don't ask me to spell the pronunciation, but I reserve the right to laugh at the way you pronounce it. ;) here's a crude picture of the 80 cherokee I'm buying, haven't seen it yet, but that's ok... ;) http://wagoneers.com/80-cherokee-spokane.jpg anyone need a ride to seattle from spokane? maybe you can drive it here for me. ;) - ---- john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:28:41 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: other spring options >From: "Paul W." >Subject: Re: xj: Leaf springs sagging >If you don't want a lift, you can >1) Re-arch your springs (reshape) - normally, this lasts 1-3 years. >2) Put in a long add-a-leaf - If your springs are weak, it'll boost 'em up >and >may or may not do any lifting >3) Buy a pair of low-mile, springs off of another XJ >4) Buy a pair of replacement stock leaf packs >Paul 5) have Benz Springs in Seattle (or any other spring shop) make you a set I have an estimate for FOUR sets of leaf springs for my j10 with 2" lift for $650. same price with no lift. john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:55:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: the 80 and the 83 cherokee... I thought you were going to get a wide track Cherokee this time... I'll give you 6 months to a year and this one will be for sale, too. The Puyallup one looks like an overall better deal to me, even if it is more dinero. (Unless you were looking for a cheap SJ Chero to turn into a M-715 style... wouldn't that be cool? fold down windshield, sheet metal flares and a wagon style green canvas top... Paul john wrote: > I'm still at work... rebooting systems after a network problem, > but here's a crude picture of the 80 cherokee I'm buying, haven't seen it > yet, but that's ok... ;) http://wagoneers.com/80-cherokee-spokane.jpg > anyone need a ride to seattle from spokane? maybe you can drive it here for > me. ;) Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:50:12 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: doug's dilema doug, double check all the connectors and sensors. you will not get spark if they're not all there. my mechanic went through this with an xj motor, I ran him through all the sensors and stuff... turns out the distributor was in wrong or not connected. I can't tell you how many times I've put a distributor in 180 degrees out of phase. :) I totally amazed myself when I swapped the distributor in SuperDawg... I couldn't believe I actually did it twice without getting it out of phase... :) But even if you get it out of phase, it should still pop. simple test for spark, take the coil lead off and stick a socket extension in the end of the wire that usually goes to the distributor, then lay it NEAR a ground. If you have a remote starter it'll be easy to hold the wire and move it about while cranking with the other hand... or get someone to help crank... and then watch for the little arc... If you can't see it because you're some place with sunshine, then latch on to it and crank... :) no, just kidding, you'll be able to see it even in bright sunlight, or hear it. Even with pressure in the fuel rail it may not provide fuel if the sensors tell it not to squirt... Alan Chung did a write up of all the sensors... I think it's on http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech If any of those connectors are loose, which could have happened when you pulled the valve cover and head... that's what happened to me when I replaced the valve cover on SuperDAwg... sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble with your xj. The stroked option sounded pretty cool, the option of putting a 4.0L head on my 4.2L sounded pretty cool... but all of 'em put you in a situation where you've messed with the original design and now if you don't fix it you're gonna be up the creek trying to find someone else you can trust to fix it... :( I think I solved my engine woes with SuperDawg. :) I'm going to sell him, most likely, and drive the '80 Cherokee with a 6 cylinder. If the engine is tight I'll get another clifford valve cover and add the Howell TBI setup to it. I really wanted to do the 4.0L/AW4 conversion, but you've seen my "shop", and you have a rough idea of the weather here... so just replacing the entire jeep is a better option. :) Especially since I've got a buyer that is going to drop a V8 in the J10 anyway and doesn't care about the engine, so long as it runs well enough to get it on a boat and to his place in Europe. :) but at this point, so long as the 300SD sells, I don't have to sell superdawg, just drop the insurance. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:09:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: More axle / hub stuff Bill Ansell wrote: > Paul, > Thanks for help so far. If I can't source the chev caliper brackets locally > / cheaply, can I add Scout front D44 caliper brackets into the mix - a buddy > has a set? The problem with using Scout caliper brackets is they have 8 holes to match the 8 studs on a Scout knuckle. But you _could_ redrill 4 holes to run them on any 6-stud knuckle. > If so, can I still use the GM calipers (which i'll be buying new)? No, but you can use Scout, Ford or 77-78 CJ calipers on the Scout caliper bracket... these rigs all use the Bendix caliper. The Scout caliper has a bigger hose fitting than the other two, but otherwise these are all the same caliper. > Is it worth trying to source / buy new dust shields or should I just > delete them if they're hard to find? If you want to run the superior Delco style caliper like GM & SJ's use, you need the dust shield, because it is also the caliper bracket. Yes, they are thick and not the cheesy lightweight tin plates like your XJ's front brakes have. ;) If you don't want the shield feature, you can trim them down... or you might try looking at 80's era GM's, I _think_ they went to a two piece design then to save weight. > This is going to be one crazy mix !! Sounds like it, but it is actually a quite common mix amoung hybrid 4x4 drivers. :) > Thanks, > > Bill You're welcome... you can buy me a beer next time you come out west to visit your parents. ;^D Paul Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +1000 From: Nigel.Chan-at-alcatel.com.au Subject: xj: Re: Replacing engine mounts question. Aaron, Thanks for the info. Cheers, Nigel - -- Nigel Chan | 95 XJ Cherokee, 4.0L HO, AW4, NP242, nigel.chan-at-ieee.org | OME 2", ARB Bullbar, Safari Snorkel, nigel.chan-at-alcatel.com.au | Kaymar Rearstep Towbar & Wheel Carrier, Sydney, Australia | Whiteline Adj Trackbar, 31x10.5 BFG AT's. > >Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:08:50 -0700 >From: "Aaron Storms" >Subject: xj: Re: Replacing engine mounts question. > >Nigel, don't know about the difference between left and right ($80 US for >the set), but I replaced mine with the MORE bulletproof poly mounts to help >keep my fan out of my radiator and it works fine, but tends to transmit a >bit more vibration than the factory rubber motor mounts. I used a floor jack >under the oil pan with a 2x4 on top to take the weight and pressure off of >the mounts, then loosened/rotated the oil filter housing and removed the >factory airbox to allow for more wrenching room. The entire process only >took about two hours with me moving carefully and cleaning as I went. Each >bolt was easy to remove and the mounts just pull straight up if you do one >side at a time. Remember which way you took out the horizontal mount bolts >and just reverse the process to install. Have fun, Aaron > >Aaron Storms >Black Hawk, CO >aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com > >- ----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 7:46 PM >Subject: xj: Replacing engine mounts question. > > >> Hi all, >> >> I just replaced the rear transmission mount on my Cherokee and it fixed my >> original problem of rattling when reversing. The mount looked crushed >compared >> to the new one. Now I have a new problem, when accelerating hard in drive >I can >> feel the whole transmission move around, I could feel this happening with >the >> old trans mount but now it is more noticable. I guess I should also change >my >> engine mounts, they probably have had it too. >> >> Does anyone know if the left and right engine mounts are the same part or >are >> they different. I called the dealer and the left mount is more expensive >than >> the right mount. >> >> Also, what is the easiest way to change out the engine mounts? I have a >trolley >> jack, chassis stands, bottle jack and the mandatory socket set. >> >> Cheers, >> Nigel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:04:21 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: nigel's motor mounts nigel, I think I did the 2x4 on a jack trick to take the weight off the motor. It was over three years ago that I replaced the ones on the little wag. Seems to me that they're even marked left & right. I should have a set laying around here somewhere... it'd be easier to pull the engine than for me to find them though... ;) Anyway, on the driver's side I pulled the air box out completely and was able to reach in and swap 'em quickly. I seem to remember having some sort of challenge with the long bolt... you'll find out. ;) on the passenger's side I had to remove the oil filter assembly on my '88 to get the mount out. 2 hours was about right. I wouldn't recommend poly anything, especially on a uni-frame setup like these. I'm not sure I'd go for a poly mount on a transmission on an SJ either. Polyurethane squeaks and passes all kinds of vibrations right through. BTW, if you don't have the SAE style standpipe on yours you might consider doing it when you're in there... I learned that removing road side trees while following paul weitlauf usually damages motor mounts... of course with 180,000 miles on the rig when I hit that tree it probably already had bad motor mounts... ;) Which reminds me... I think the double-cardan joints on the front driveshaft of the little wagoneer may need to be replaced again... felt some vibrations driving home in full time yesterday... seems to vibe around 60-65mph... it would kind of vibe occassionally at 70+. Speed limit was 70mph... I kept it a little bit under the limit because I didn't want to freak out my wife too much, she was busy in the back seat counting accidents... ;) Mostly pickup trucks, not sure why... the little nissan or toyota I can understand, too much lift, too big of tires, but the supercab ford perplexed me... unless the guy was driving in 2wd. My J10 is rock solid in 4 wheel drive, in 2wd it'll do all the dumb things most pickups do... :) It looks like that ford went over the guard rail... and landed on the bed just behind the cab... didn't stop to ask questions... that was pass #2 out of 5 and dark was setting in... and I'd forgotten my chains at home. Not that I needed them... but the Washington state law says that 4x4's with M/S rated tires don't need to WEAR the chains, but they have to have them with you. Go figure. I really didn't want to buy chains or risk getting turned back at the summit if the storm had materialized that was supposed to hit. later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:17:54 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: puyallup 4x4 swap meet (WA) March 11??? The Puyallup 4x4 swap meet is March 11, right? Sunday... Anyway, does anyone know what a booth or space costs? I've got so many parts starting to accumulate that It might be a good thing to pack 'em up in my trailer and haul 'em down there. :) I don't have the space to spread 'em out to take pictures... shipping some of this stuff would be ridiculous. :) Who all is going? I'll be showing up around 1pm right after church on Sunday... Hey, wait, isn't it on Saturday too? If it is let me know, that way I can get there earlier on Saturday... :) What are the hours? Paul? ;) Allan? :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:12:51 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: Puyallup 4x4 swap meet (WA) March 11 At 09:55 PM 2/11/01 -0800, Paul W. wrote: >Here's the scoop from Tri-Power on the Puyallup 4x4 Swap Meet: >(don't you get the Tri-Power John? As a PNW4WDA memberm you should be!) you mean I'm supposed to READ them? ;) I've got piles of stuff to read... I'm way behind... thanx again paul. :) >MARCH 11, 2001 >Spanaway Moonshiners' 19th Annual Swap Meet >4x4, Off-Road & High Performance >Buy - Sell - Trade Used 4x4's, new & used parts >Puyallup Fairgrounds 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM >General Admission $5 per person >For Vendor Information See: >http://www.moonshinersjeepclub.com >Or Contact Dan Marek (Any relation, Phil???) at: >E-mail: dmarek6453-at-aol.com >Phone: (253) 537-3172 > >Booths are $20 and will get you in Sat afternoon for set-up and a couple of >free passes for Sunday (and get you in early on Sun, too). The best stuff >usually sells Sat nite. > >Paul - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 101 21:08:23 -1000 (HST) From: Alan Chung Subject: Re: xj: puyallup 4x4 swap meet (WA) March 11??? Hey Paul and John Hey I wouldnt mind checking it out again if I have time. Sunday huh? That would be cool. BTW...forgot about tri-power, I think they have the wrong address for me. Paul, can you give them the right address with my membership? I paid it btw over christmas. ttyl Mahalo Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:58:32 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W." Subject: Re: xj: Puyallup WA 4x4 swap meet March 11 (Sun) Yes... at least look at the events calendar for anything of interest - OH! and the classifieds. And if you don't plan on going until 1PM on Sunday, forget about a booth, you'll have to be there all day manning it, or your space will be lost. The Sat nite wheelin & dealin is strictly between the vendors in there setting up, the general public is not allowed in until Sun morn -at- 9. Paul Of course, I'll be going It's a major social event for the '01 wheelin' season ;) - --- john wrote: > At 09:55 PM 2/11/01 -0800, Paul W. wrote: > >Here's the scoop from Tri-Power on the Puyallup 4x4 Swap Meet: > >(don't you get the Tri-Power John? As a PNW4WDA memberm you should be!) > > you mean I'm supposed to READ them? ;) > I've got piles of stuff to read... I'm way behind... > > thanx again paul. :) > > > >MARCH 11, 2001 > >Spanaway Moonshiners' 19th Annual Swap Meet > >4x4, Off-Road & High Performance > >Buy - Sell - Trade Used 4x4's, new & used parts > >Puyallup Fairgrounds 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM > >General Admission $5 per person > >For Vendor Information See: > >http://www.moonshinersjeepclub.com > >Or Contact Dan Marek (Any relation, Phil???) at: > >E-mail: dmarek6453-at-aol.com > >Phone: (253) 537-3172 > > > >Booths are $20 and will get you in Sat afternoon for set-up and a couple of > >free passes for Sunday (and get you in early on Sun, too). The best stuff > >usually sells Sat nite. > > > >Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:19:40 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: Re: rebuilt but won't start Could it be? Yes, yes,.....its...Mr VT! Hiya Bill! Phil(Wishin he could get the Skyjacker 8" kit) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bill & Jennie" Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: Subject: xj: Re: rebuilt but won't start Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:13:03 -0800 Doug, By far the most common reassembly mistake is timing. Double check to make sure #1 is -at- tdc compression. Also double check firing order. Easy spark test, put an old spark plug or screwdriver in plug or coil wire, hold near a good ground while cranking, look for spark. Make sure you are well isolated or you may get zapped yourself {at least you'll know you got spark:>)}. Bill _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:24:07 -0800 From: "Phil M." Subject: Re: xj: other spring options C'mon John, for that price he might as well get the OME kit. LOL I'm surprised that YOU of all people didn't give that plug. :o) Phil(Knows that the price given was an example) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: john Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: (Recipient list suppressed) Subject: xj: other spring options Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:28:41 -0800 >From: "Paul W." >Subject: Re: xj: Leaf springs sagging >If you don't want a lift, you can >1) Re-arch your springs (reshape) - normally, this lasts 1-3 years. >2) Put in a long add-a-leaf - If your springs are weak, it'll boost 'em up >and >may or may not do any lifting >3) Buy a pair of low-mile, springs off of another XJ >4) Buy a pair of replacement stock leaf packs >Paul 5) have Benz Springs in Seattle (or any other spring shop) make you a set I have an estimate for FOUR sets of leaf springs for my j10 with 2" lift for $650. same price with no lift. john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:17:15 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: Re: rebuilt but won't start Make sure -at-TDC the rotor is actually just before the #1. when my motor was rebuilt the shop put it pointing directly at #1 and it didn't run worth S--- backfired and everything. The guage really doesn't move while you're cranking the motor. I actually smashed the handle off a long flat blade screw driver and then stuck it in my drill. Poked it down through the distributor hole and spun the oil pump. Bob >If it was safe, it wouldn't be fun! >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Doug Wright" >To: >Cc: >Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 2:28 PM >Subject: xj: rebuilt but won't start > > > > I reassembled the motor with the new cam and lifters, but now that I have >it > > back together, it won't run. I'm lost as to why. I'm pretty sure I > > reconnected everything and I was careful putting it back together. > > Following the instructions in the Haynes manual, I turned over the engine > > with no plugs to build up the oil pressure, but the gauge didn't move. I > > then put the plugs back in and tried to crank it but it just turns over >and > > won't catch. There is pressure in the fuel rail, but I'm not sure how to > > tell if it's getting a spark or not. I'm pretty sure the distributor is > > pointing at the #1 cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke. Also, >does > > it matter if I have the valve cover on? It's been off this whole time. >Any > > ideas as to what my problem might be? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Doug > > > > doug-at-hammerdesigns.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:48:49 -0500 From: "Andrew Bienhaus" Subject: xj: Leaf SPrings Sagging - SUCCESS! : If you don't want a lift, you can : 1) Re-arch your springs (reshape) - normally, this lasts 1-3 years. : 2) Put in a long add-a-leaf - If your springs are weak, it'll : boost 'em up and : may or may not do any lifting : 3) Buy a pair of low-mile, springs off of another XJ : 4) Buy a pair of replacement stock leaf packs Well, as mentioned over the last few weeks, I went ahead with the "add-a-leaf" to the rear end of my sagging 91 XJ, last Thursday. It was about a two hour project, and in the end was $140 Can$Cash, everything included. They removed the exisiting leaves, checked them for cracks or breaks, and then fabricated a new additional thicker leaf for near the top, and reassembled. WOW! What a difference. Holy cow. The rear is actually a little higher than the front now, but not much. The stiffness is beautiful. Instead of handing like a plate of spaghetti, it actually has some rear end control! For those who don't want to lift the crap out of their vehicles, but who would like to remove the mush from the rear end, I highly recommend this. I went with a buddy who has an 89 XJ, with a worse rear end, to find that he had a broken leaf on each side... so for him, after they rebuilt it, he was giggling like a schoolgirl. :-) Anyhow, Pyett Spring & Alignment, in Caistor Centre (outside Hamilton), Southern Ontario. These guys are good... been in business for some 50+ years. :-) All the best, Andrew ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1083 *************************