From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Mar 2 10:14:01 2002 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, March 1 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1378 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: Liberty review xj: brake rotors xj: brake rotors Re: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable xj: Re: Liberty review RE: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable RE: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:39:49 -0600 From: "Mike Petersen" Subject: xj: Re: Liberty review We only have about 1200 miles so far, but no problems as of yet. I am not too impressed with the gas mileage -- 14 mpg so far but it should improve when the computer decides that the engine is broken in and optimizes fuel flow, but we will see. No off road yet but we are supposed to get 10 to 12 inches of the white stuff tonight so time to go out driving around laughing at the people with 2WD cars. Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Storms" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: xj: Liberty review Thanks for the review Mike - confirms other reports I've heard. Any quality issues? I assume you haven't done any mild trails yet or anything to test the 4x4 prowess? I agree about preferring a new xj over the Liberty, but guess marketing needs something new to sell. Aaron - ---------- >From: "Mike Petersen" >To: >Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep >Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2002, 11:08 AM > >My personal perceptions are that it's considerably higher than my XJ thus it >feels stranger on the corners. As with anything new, it will just take >getting used to. > >The up side is my wife likes it because of it's height--- She's 5'2". I on >the other hand have to make sure that I put the seat all the way back and >recline the backrest one notch to keep from banging my head on the top of >the door frame or my knee on the steering wheel -- I'm 6'3". > >If I would have had the choice I would have bought a brand new XJ over the >Liberty body style, but then I hate to change things that work -- like it >seems every time I find a pair of shoes that I like and are comfortable they >change the style and quit making them. I guess the older that I get the more >resistant to change I become. > >Mike Petersen >91 XJ >02 Liberty > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Aaron Storms" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:52 AM >Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep > > >Mike, how do you like your wife's Liberty now that you've had it for a few >weeks? Pros/Cons? Aaron > >---------- >>From: "Mike Petersen" >>To: >>Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep >>Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2002, 10:43 AM >> > >>If your ABS Computer is under the rear seat as mine is, just unplug one of >>the rear sensor cables. This will fault out the computer and at about 8 mph >>will turn on the ABS light on the dash and put it in emergency failure >mode. >>The same as standard brakes. >> >>This works on mine, be very careful when you try it. Depending on the >>particular ABS System used it could be different. I have the Bendix 9. >> >>Mike Petersen >>91 XJ >>02 Liberty >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Aaron Storms" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:58 AM >>Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep >> >> >>Interesting insight to the Icelandic automotive culture Mike - at $4 per >>gallon, can see why building a smaller frugal rig might be the way to go. I > >>don't know about disabling the ABS part-time, though many of my friends >here >>have removed it entirely somehow. Yeah, we've all heard about the Liberty >>being called the Cherokee in other countries - seems like blasphemy to me >>though I've heard the Liberty does better than it looks with the exception >>of not enough room for taller drivers. >> >>It's -4 this morning and we have about 5" of new snow, but our ice is under >>the snow. I was driving my big OD xj home late last night in the storm and >>it seemed to run out of gas or the fuel pump quit about halfway up the >>remote canyon to my cabin! Cell phones don't work there and my wife >wouldn't >>come looking for me for another hour or so, but I was able to hitch a ride >>up the mountain. I finally figured out that when wheeling last Sat, I had >>smashed my gas tank down to about half it's normal capacity, so I might >have >>run out of gas where the pump was sucking from even though the gauge showed >>half full! Guess a fuel cell is on my wish list next...:) >>See ya, Aaron >>Black Hawk, CO >> >>---------- >>>From: "Kubler, Michael R. LT" >>>To: "XJ (E-mail)" >>>Subject: xj: Iceland jeep >>>Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2002, 5:10 AM >>> >> >>>>>the giant lift and tires like some of the Icelander rigs I've seen? > >>> >>> >>>Nope - my rig is still stock (it's an 01) - looking at a mild lift and >>>bigger tires. Most of the big rigs are tricked out be "Arctic Trucks" and >>>they are monsters. They use big Japanese rigs typically diesels. Mostly >>>used to run up the glaciers and such. Not they typical Icelander's >>personal >>>rig. There are a bunch of XJ's that are daily drivers as well as some of >>>the general SUV craze. Mostly they drive little cars, many with AWD, as >>gas >>>is $4/gallon. >>> >>>>still >>>snowing on top of the three inches or so of fresh snow. Have fun, Aaron> >>> >>>Actually winter just started. Till February we had only two "real" snows. >>>It snowed all Feb and we're getting more today. Thing here is it doesn't >>>get real deep as every few days we have 40-50 mph winds that blow it all >>>into the ocean. We've had 4-6 inches on the ground with a nice layer of >>ice >>>for about 4 weeks now though. I just bought some older wheels (with the >>>black plastic center) and some GY workhorse tires w/ studs - bought them >>>cheap from a guy moving to FL. Haven't had time to get them on - the >studs >>>would help with the ice that's for sure. >>> >>>My XJ does pretty well - I've got the "full time available" transfer case >>>and limited slip. I run in full time most the time lately and then drop >>>into part time for deep or really slick areas or going down the back >roads. >>>Back roads here might be considered trails elsewhere. True off road isn't >>>feasible much near the base as it is all lava rock, tracked vehicles would >>>have problems over most of it. There are sand trails nearby though. I >was >>>skeptical about the ABS but it has been pretty nice with the ice too - >does >>>anyone know how to safely and temporarily disable it when desired? >>> >>>BTW I was watching a European car show on TV - did you guys know that the >>>Liberty is being called the Cherokee in Europe? >>>Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:16:19 -0800 (PST) From: mark jones Subject: xj: brake rotors Can anyone recomend some good rotors for an '88. After my wheels were stolen, my XJ was sitting on it's brakes for a couple of days and there is no telling how rough th etow truck driver was on it. I was looking at power slot but I don't think they make them for pre 90. TIA Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:16:17 -0800 (PST) From: mark jones Subject: xj: brake rotors Can anyone recomend some good rotors for an '88. After my wheels were stolen, my XJ was sitting on it's brakes for a couple of days and there is no telling how rough th etow truck driver was on it. I was looking at power slot but I don't think they make them for pre 90. TIA Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:05:26 -0500 From: Bob Mock Subject: Re: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable I had this problem twice. both times i cleaned the battery posts and the insides of the cable clamps REAL well. worked like a champ. Turns out although i couldn't see any corrosion there was enough not to let the juice pass. it would jump just like yours but woulnd't fire on it's own. Bob At 08:17 AM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote: >I have a new problem that is causing me grief. I turn the key and I get a >single click out of the starter. Yet the starter and battery are new. If I >jump the motor it starts right up. Also the alternator has what sounds like >a bad bearing but seems to charge. One other new thing is that the interior >lights kinda flicker like there isn't a good power connection. So I'm >thinking that I have a bad ground wire or connection and when I jump it, >there is a new ground path from the jumpers. But I've never heard of a >ground wire going bad and the connections all look good. Or is there some >problem the alternator can have that would affect starting? Anyone have >thoughts on the issue? > >Thanks, >Whit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:46:28 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: Liberty review Seems like the only thing the KJ has going for it are its unusual looks. And, when you get used to the looks, as I now have, it ain't too exciting anymore... On the other hand, I still get excited when I see another XJ, Wagoneer (SJ) or J-truck! - -Don Hansen Braintree, MA. fixxa-at-beld.net 1992 XJ Laredo "Helga" 1988 Grand Wagoneer "Edna" 1987 J-20 "Miss Agnes" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Storms" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: xj: Liberty review > Thanks for the review Mike - confirms other reports I've heard. Any quality > issues? I assume you haven't done any mild trails yet or anything to test > the 4x4 prowess? I agree about preferring a new xj over the Liberty, but > guess marketing needs something new to sell. Aaron > > ---------- > >From: "Mike Petersen" > >To: > >Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep > >Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2002, 11:08 AM > > > > >My personal perceptions are that it's considerably higher than my XJ thus it > >feels stranger on the corners. As with anything new, it will just take > >getting used to. > > > >The up side is my wife likes it because of it's height--- She's 5'2". I on > >the other hand have to make sure that I put the seat all the way back and > >recline the backrest one notch to keep from banging my head on the top of > >the door frame or my knee on the steering wheel -- I'm 6'3". > > > >If I would have had the choice I would have bought a brand new XJ over the > >Liberty body style, but then I hate to change things that work -- like it > >seems every time I find a pair of shoes that I like and are comfortable they > >change the style and quit making them. I guess the older that I get the more > >resistant to change I become. > > > >Mike Petersen > >91 XJ > >02 Liberty > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Aaron Storms" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:52 AM > >Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep > > > > > >Mike, how do you like your wife's Liberty now that you've had it for a few > >weeks? Pros/Cons? Aaron > > > >---------- > >>From: "Mike Petersen" > >>To: > >>Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep > >>Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2002, 10:43 AM > >> > > > >>If your ABS Computer is under the rear seat as mine is, just unplug one of > >>the rear sensor cables. This will fault out the computer and at about 8 mph > >>will turn on the ABS light on the dash and put it in emergency failure > >mode. > >>The same as standard brakes. > >> > >>This works on mine, be very careful when you try it. Depending on the > >>particular ABS System used it could be different. I have the Bendix 9. > >> > >>Mike Petersen > >>91 XJ > >>02 Liberty > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Aaron Storms" > >>To: > >>Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:58 AM > >>Subject: Re: xj: Iceland jeep > >> > >> > >>Interesting insight to the Icelandic automotive culture Mike - at $4 per > >>gallon, can see why building a smaller frugal rig might be the way to go. I > > > >>don't know about disabling the ABS part-time, though many of my friends > >here > >>have removed it entirely somehow. Yeah, we've all heard about the Liberty > >>being called the Cherokee in other countries - seems like blasphemy to me > >>though I've heard the Liberty does better than it looks with the exception > >>of not enough room for taller drivers. > >> > >>It's -4 this morning and we have about 5" of new snow, but our ice is under > >>the snow. I was driving my big OD xj home late last night in the storm and > >>it seemed to run out of gas or the fuel pump quit about halfway up the > >>remote canyon to my cabin! Cell phones don't work there and my wife > >wouldn't > >>come looking for me for another hour or so, but I was able to hitch a ride > >>up the mountain. I finally figured out that when wheeling last Sat, I had > >>smashed my gas tank down to about half it's normal capacity, so I might > >have > >>run out of gas where the pump was sucking from even though the gauge showed > >>half full! Guess a fuel cell is on my wish list next...:) > >>See ya, Aaron > >>Black Hawk, CO > >> > >>---------- > >>>From: "Kubler, Michael R. LT" > >>>To: "XJ (E-mail)" > >>>Subject: xj: Iceland jeep > >>>Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2002, 5:10 AM > >>> > >> > >>> >>>the giant lift and tires like some of the Icelander rigs I've seen? > > >>> > >>> > >>>Nope - my rig is still stock (it's an 01) - looking at a mild lift and > >>>bigger tires. Most of the big rigs are tricked out be "Arctic Trucks" and > >>>they are monsters. They use big Japanese rigs typically diesels. Mostly > >>>used to run up the glaciers and such. Not they typical Icelander's > >>personal > >>>rig. There are a bunch of XJ's that are daily drivers as well as some of > >>>the general SUV craze. Mostly they drive little cars, many with AWD, as > >>gas > >>>is $4/gallon. > >>> > >>> >>still > >>>snowing on top of the three inches or so of fresh snow. Have fun, Aaron> > >>> > >>>Actually winter just started. Till February we had only two "real" snows. > >>>It snowed all Feb and we're getting more today. Thing here is it doesn't > >>>get real deep as every few days we have 40-50 mph winds that blow it all > >>>into the ocean. We've had 4-6 inches on the ground with a nice layer of > >>ice > >>>for about 4 weeks now though. I just bought some older wheels (with the > >>>black plastic center) and some GY workhorse tires w/ studs - bought them > >>>cheap from a guy moving to FL. Haven't had time to get them on - the > >studs > >>>would help with the ice that's for sure. > >>> > >>>My XJ does pretty well - I've got the "full time available" transfer case > >>>and limited slip. I run in full time most the time lately and then drop > >>>into part time for deep or really slick areas or going down the back > >roads. > >>>Back roads here might be considered trails elsewhere. True off road isn't > >>>feasible much near the base as it is all lava rock, tracked vehicles would > >>>have problems over most of it. There are sand trails nearby though. I > >was > >>>skeptical about the ABS but it has been pretty nice with the ice too - > >does > >>>anyone know how to safely and temporarily disable it when desired? > >>> > >>>BTW I was watching a European car show on TV - did you guys know that the > >>>Liberty is being called the Cherokee in Europe? > >>>Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:03:32 -0500 From: "Darren K. Page" Subject: RE: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable Whit, I have also had that same problem twice now. Both times after a rainfall. Same problem, exact same solution as Bob. I even went out and bought one of those battery terminal brushes that have a male type and a female type brush. It works great for cleaning the posts and cables of the corrosion that you can't see. I keep it in the console now, just in case... It must be an XJ thing... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren K. Page Montreal, Qc dkpage at videotron.ca 1990 Jeep Cherokee Sport Member of "Off-Roaders Anonymous" http://www.ora4x4.org - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Bob Mock Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:05 PM To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable I had this problem twice. both times i cleaned the battery posts and the insides of the cable clamps REAL well. worked like a champ. Turns out although i couldn't see any corrosion there was enough not to let the juice pass. it would jump just like yours but woulnd't fire on it's own. Bob At 08:17 AM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote: >I have a new problem that is causing me grief. I turn the key and I get a >single click out of the starter. Yet the starter and battery are new. If I >jump the motor it starts right up. Also the alternator has what sounds like >a bad bearing but seems to charge. One other new thing is that the interior >lights kinda flicker like there isn't a good power connection. So I'm >thinking that I have a bad ground wire or connection and when I jump it, >there is a new ground path from the jumpers. But I've never heard of a >ground wire going bad and the connections all look good. Or is there some >problem the alternator can have that would affect starting? Anyone have >thoughts on the issue? > >Thanks, >Whit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:22:46 -0800 From: "Whit Hickman" Subject: RE: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable Thanks but this does not seem to be the problem. With the motor transplant, I have a maze of wires so it is always a nightmare when electrical things go wrong. I checked all the battery and starter wiring and tested the alternator. I'm thinking it's maybe ignition or VATS related. Or maybe my new starter has a bad solenoid. At least I found out my alternator is good, the steering pump ran out of fluid and it sounded like a bad bearing in the alternator. Must have a leak somewhere. But thanks for the input. Whit > > > Whit, > > I have also had that same problem twice now. Both times after a rainfall. > > Same problem, exact same solution as Bob. I even went out and > bought one of > those battery terminal brushes that have a male type and a female type > brush. It works great for cleaning the posts and cables of the corrosion > that you can't see. I keep it in the console now, just in case... > > It must be an XJ thing... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Darren K. Page > Montreal, Qc > dkpage at videotron.ca > > 1990 Jeep Cherokee Sport > > Member of "Off-Roaders Anonymous" > http://www.ora4x4.org > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Bob > Mock > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:05 PM > To: xj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: xj: Alternator or Ground Cable > > > I had this problem twice. both times i cleaned the battery posts and the > insides of the cable clamps REAL well. worked like a champ. Turns out > although i couldn't see any corrosion there was enough not to let the > juice pass. it would jump just like yours but woulnd't fire on it's own. > > Bob > > > At 08:17 AM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I have a new problem that is causing me grief. I turn the key > and I get a > >single click out of the starter. Yet the starter and battery > are new. If > I > >jump the motor it starts right up. Also the alternator has what sounds > like > >a bad bearing but seems to charge. One other new thing is that the > interior > >lights kinda flicker like there isn't a good power connection. So I'm > >thinking that I have a bad ground wire or connection and when I jump it, > >there is a new ground path from the jumpers. But I've never heard of a > >ground wire going bad and the connections all look good. Or is > there some > >problem the alternator can have that would affect starting? Anyone have > >thoughts on the issue? > > > >Thanks, > >Whit ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1378 *************************