From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Nov 13 16:05:51 2002 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, November 14 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1545 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re:242 vs. 242HD was 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) xj: Question about dashboard behavior xj: Re: Question about dashboard behavior xj: Re: Re:242 vs. 242HD was 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) xj: Re: Re: Re:242 vs. 242HD was 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) xj: Re:242 vs. 242HD XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:18:05 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re:242 vs. 242HD was 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) Zack, Great info! FWIW, One of my friends (on the XJ list) has set up his NP242 with a SYE and the 4:1 kit, same basic mods as advertised for the NP231. Is there a website at NV that has all this info? Really appreciate your input in this area. I also found out that an NP219 23 spline output will NOT mate up directly to the Aisin Warner 4speed auto (30-80LE). We had to make an adapter to mate them up. Ordinarily the AW4 would mate to an NP242, but I chose to use the NP219 because I didn't need a SYE and I was led to believe the NP219 is stronger then the NP242, but your discourse on the xfr case numbers seems to disagree with that... or maybe I was reading it wrong. Would the 242 be stronger then the 219? It seems that the case is bigger on the 219. Hey, if you want to send one of those xfr cases collecting dust out here I'd be glad to help free up the warehouse space... :) Thanx again for the education, it's nice to hear from an authority on this subject. :) john meister snohomish, washington At 10:17 AM 11/12/2002 +0000, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:29:09 -0500 > From: "Zack Heisey" >Subject: 242 vs. 242HD was 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) > >Jim, > I hate to disagree with you here in front of everyone, but your not >exactly right. All Jeep 242s have 5 positions. Dodge used some 4 position >242s, but not Jeep. The difference between the 242 and the 242HD is the HD >has an extensioned rear output, and the standard is extentionless. To my >knowledge, NVG has never made an fixed rear output 242. Even the heaviest >242 made, for the Hummer, (that has a wider chain) is still slip rear >output. Also, the dodge version of the 242, and later the 244 have a wider >chain, but you can swap a wider chain into anything. I dunno about the >locking up the 249 thing. It's just using later production parts from the >249OD. Actually, let me add one thing, there were a couple of fixed rear >output 4 position, 242HDs made. I made them last year and sent them to >Jeep. They said they cost too much and didn't want them. They are >currently collecting dust in the warehouse. > >Zack Heisey >zmjeeps-at-desupernet.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:48:06 -0500 From: Michael Kirby Subject: xj: Question about dashboard behavior Greetings-- though I've been subscribed to this list for awhile, this is my first time sending a message. I have a 1998 Cherokee that has started exhibiting a weird problem with the dashboard gauge cluster. Occasionally (more and more often these days) all the gauges will "die" while the vehicle is being driven. When this happens the dash stays lit, but all the gauges drop to 0 and only the red "airbag" indicator stays lit. Some percussive maintenance usually gets the dash to "wake up" (i.e., a nice firm slap on the top of the dash). It appears that what is happening is a connector somewhere has gotten loose, and is getting looser as time goes on-- the problem is exhibiting itself more and more often, sometimes several times while on the 30 mile drive home from work. What I'm wondering is this-- a) from my description, does someone know exactly which connector is coming loose? b) is this something that is a pain in the butt to fix? Do I have to pull the whole dash assembly out to get to the connector? Thanks in advance for any help y'all can give! Regards, Mike Kirby, XJ owner since 2000 PS- Anyone on this list live in the Downeast Maine region? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:02:11 -0500 From: "Paul Wright" Subject: xj: Re: Question about dashboard behavior Hi Mike, Yes, I've seen this on our 98 Jeep Wrangler, it is due to ".....by minor oxidation of the BUS circuit terminals at the instrument cluster. Electrical terminals will show signs of oxidation which will appear only as slightly darkened lines or marks on the male terminals. These often appear as grey or black marks rather than the appearance of corrosion usually associated with higher current circuits...." And yes, you need to remove the instrument cluster if you are going to attempt to clean the terminals. If you are still under warranty, there is a TSB for this, and it is covered. I tried getting the dealerships near us to fix this, but we were out of warranty and it is not a safety recall in their determination.. hth FYI -- the TSB is NO: 08-20-98 Rev. A and covers both the 98 Wrangler and Cherokee. Paul Repair Procedure if so inclined: This bulletin involves cleaning the IP cluster connector terminals and applying dielectric grease, p/n 05013781AA, to the instrument panel harness female terminals. 1. Disconnect the battery negative cable. 2. Remove the instrument cluster using the procedures outlined in the appropriate service manual. 3. **Inspect the male terminals, pins 1 & 2 (See Figure 1), in the cluster. (See Figure 2) Any discoloration must be removed from the terminals. The discoloration may appear as a dark line or mark. Use a small flat blade screw driver to carefully scrape any oxidation from the terminals. Gently scrape both sides of the terminals until all of the oxidation is removed. Use of a magnifying glass may be helpful. Do not use sand paper or any sharp tool such as a razor knife which could damage the protective plating on the terminals. Gentle pressure with a screw driver is all that is necessary. Use care not to bend the terminals.** **CAUTION: USE ONLY APPROVED ELECTRICAL CONTACT CLEANER, P/N 04856975 TO CLEAN THE CLUSTER TERMINALS. USE OF ANY OTHER SOLVENT OR CLEANER CAN CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE CLUSTER OR TERMINAL INSULATORS.** 4. Hold the cluster with the connector facing down and sparingly apply Electrical Contact Cleaner to the male terminals of the connectors. Be sure to avoid any excess cleaner entering the cluster. Apply contact cleaner sparingly to the female terminals on the harness end. **CAUTION: USE ONLY DIELECTRIC GREASE, P/N 05013781AA. OTHER TYPES OF GREASE CAN ACT AS AN INSULATOR AND RENDER THE REPAIR INEFFECTIVE.** 5. **Apply dielectric grease, P/N 05013781AA, to the female terminals. Work the grease into the cavities on all of the female terminals. Wipe off any excess grease from the insulators. ** 6. Install the cluster. Set the clock in the radio if required. 7. **Erase any fault codes from the ACEM using The DRBIII(R).** - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kirby" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:48 PM Subject: xj: Question about dashboard behavior > Greetings-- though I've been subscribed to this list for awhile, this is my > first time sending a message. > > I have a 1998 Cherokee that has started exhibiting a weird problem with the > dashboard gauge cluster. Occasionally (more and more often these days) all > the gauges will "die" while the vehicle is being driven. When this happens > the dash stays lit, but all the gauges drop to 0 and only the red "airbag" > indicator stays lit. > > Some percussive maintenance usually gets the dash to "wake up" (i.e., a > nice firm slap on the top of the dash). > > It appears that what is happening is a connector somewhere has gotten > loose, and is getting looser as time goes on-- the problem is exhibiting > itself more and more often, sometimes several times while on the 30 mile > drive home from work. > > What I'm wondering is this-- > > a) from my description, does someone know exactly which connector is coming > loose? > > b) is this something that is a pain in the butt to fix? Do I have to pull > the whole dash assembly out to get to the connector? > > Thanks in advance for any help y'all can give! > > Regards, > > Mike Kirby, XJ owner since 2000 > > PS- Anyone on this list live in the Downeast Maine region? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:35:22 -0800 From: "Bill and Jen" Subject: xj: Re: Re:242 vs. 242HD was 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) John, While it is not commonly known, the 4:1 can easily be installed in a 242. I know of a least a half dozen including mine. It does require custom machine work, a fat wallet, and no warranty what so ever. Coupled with an SYE the cost rapidly approaches that of an Atlas 3.8:1 t-case, so it's cost effectiveness is questionable. I chose to go this way because the 242 has proven to be 100% reliable(even with my 37's) so far, but mainly for it's high speed desert running prowness in awd mode(ask Phil how well it drives at high speed with the Bilstein 9100"s and long arms!) and drivability on icy roads. If I ever do blow it up, it'll be good excuse for an Atlas. Bill If it was safe, it wouldn't be fun! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:38:55 -0800 From: "Phil" Subject: xj: Re: Re: Re:242 vs. 242HD was 241 vs 242 - Tcase 101 (long) 8" diameter "logs" lying across the trail? What're those? :o) I am here to testify that Bill's setup rocks. (pun intended) Lotsa cool whine coming from the t-case and lots of fun. I give it my highest rating. lol Phil - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill and Jen" > John, > While it is not commonly known, the 4:1 can easily be installed in a > 242. I know of a least a half dozen including mine. It does require custom > machine work, a fat wallet, and no warranty what so ever. Coupled with an > SYE the cost rapidly approaches that of an Atlas 3.8:1 t-case, so it's cost > effectiveness is questionable. I chose to go this way because the 242 has > proven to be 100% reliable(even with my 37's) so far, but mainly for it's > high speed desert running prowness in awd mode(ask Phil how well it drives > at high speed with the Bilstein 9100"s and long arms!) and drivability on > icy roads. If I ever do blow it up, it'll be good excuse for an Atlas. > > Bill > > If it was safe, it wouldn't be fun! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:55:04 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re:242 vs. 242HD On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Heisey, Zachary wrote: >-->See my comments below: >-->FWIW, One of my friends (on the XJ list) has set up >-->his NP242 with a SYE and the 4:1 kit, same basic mods as >-->advertised for the NP231. >--> >-->>There is a kit available that you send your mainshaft in and they cut it >-->and either turn threads on the end or drill and tap the end. Either way, >-->they leak and its not the right way to do it. sounds like what he did, not sure if he's still using that case or not, his truck is so radical it's hardly proper to call it an XJ any more. :) here's an older picture, he's done more mods (and rolled it again at Moab) http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/GoneTurtle/ You ought to see his oil system, he can run upside down with it... he's out of control... ;) >-->Is there a website at NV that has all this info? Really >-->appreciate your input in this area. >--> >-->> http://www.nvg.com then go to products, transfer cases. cool, will do, thanx! >-->I also found out that an NP219 23 spline output will NOT >-->mate up directly to the Aisin Warner 4speed auto (30-80LE). >-->We had to make an adapter to mate them up. Ordinarily the >-->AW4 would mate to an NP242, but I chose to use the NP219 because >-->I didn't need a SYE and I was led to believe the NP219 is >-->stronger then the NP242, but your discourse on the xfr case >-->numbers seems to disagree with that... or maybe I was reading >-->it wrong. Would the 242 be stronger then the 219? It seems >-->that the case is bigger on the 219. >--> >-->> Why wouldn't it work? Was it too short or ??? I would say that a 242 is >-->strong than a 219. Also, you get a real geared diff in the 242. What happend is the shaft mated up ok, but the back of the output housing on the AW4 didn't meet up to the NP219 case. Took a piece of aluminum and had it machined to work as a spacer. Next time I'm down there I'll take a picture of it, or find the picture and post it on my server. I'm buried in the adapter, $65 for the metal and another $250 for the machine work... could have bought an NP242 to mate to the AW4 for less... oh well... The AW4 would have resulted in my desire to have a SYE! The 219 is viscous coupled then? Why is it that the 229's spit those things out like bad candy while I've rarely heard of someone having trouble with the 219? I could kick myself, I recycled one of my old 242's, it had been in the little wagoneer, 210,000 miles with the last 30,000 miles or so run dry... it had this oil leak, I bought the seal, but then it stopped leaking... got busy, forgot, then I was wondering what that funny noise was... rofl... oops. I could have rechained/bearing'd it and been good to go. I like the 242, but for the J10 Stepside the 219 will be fine. We have lots of wet roads and the back end is too light, even with a little 4.0L setup it'll be an issue starting out... it was with the 4.2L... >-->Hey, if you want to send one of those xfr cases collecting >-->dust out here I'd be glad to help free up the warehouse space... :) >-->> Ah, no. yeah, I know, get in line... ;) I glanced at the digest and noticed a number of other takers... :) >-->Thanx again for the education, it's nice to hear from an >-->authority on this subject. :) >--> >-->> You'd think but I already have people arguing with me about some of these >-->things. Sheesh. Amazing... But if you think about it, there are a lot of people who should be experts that are totally clueless, like Dealerships and Mechanics... You'd guess that people just expect someone not to have all the facts! Maybe it's just an emotional reaction to having their myth or bubble burst. :) But that's ok, I have people argue with me about stuff too... mostly my offspring... ;) Putting the TH400/QT into my son's '77 Chero he was chattering away about how this wasn't going to work, how we needed to do this or that, or maybe call a tow truck and have a shop do it... on and on... then when I finally got a bolt started he said, how'd that happen? ;) rofl... Just got a call from him about his '62 Galaxie, we're working out some fuel problems... he's starting to listen though, so there is hope. :) now, if I can work with him to get rid of some of our extra vehicles my wife might be happy... :) I ended up with a '79 Golden Eagle, and my '75 J10 trailer coming home on the same weekend... oops... Still haven't gotten rid of the '54 Chevy box... and of course my son now has three vehicles... I need a barn, or at least a garage... :) Hey, maybe my neighbor will let me use his barn to store some of my vehicles... oh wait, he pulled his '63 Caddy out of the barn so he could put llamas in there... ;) Good hearing from you again Zach, btw, I may be back out in PA in April again to teach a UNIX class, up near Mt. Pocono, you any where near there? Or are you in Ohio, I can't remember... there's another old timer out there too working for Lucent... brad??? yeah, that's it, right? rofl... what day is it again? ;) john meister >-->Zachary M. Heisey >-->New Venture Gear >-->Product Engineer >-->Phone: 315.432.4147 >-->Fax: 315.432.4965 >-->email: heiseyz-at-nvg.com ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1545 *************************