From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jan 11 18:08:28 2003 From: xj-digest xj-digest Saturday, January 11 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1575 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: selectrac xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] cargo areas: XJ, WJ and SJ - ROUGH APX xj: Re: Selec-Trac xj: Re: Re: selectrac xj: Re: Re: selectrac xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac Re: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac Re: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac xj: cool WJ links Re: xj: cool WJ links Re: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac xj: longarm XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:04:50 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: selectrac xJ's haven't had axle disconnects since '87. my '87 has one, but my '88 didn't. the axle and driveshaft are always spinning... only the output of the xfr case disconnects. according to the owners manual it only costs .1 mpg... serious. ;) so, no, there's nothing wrong with your '99 xj, it's fine. axle and hubs won't disconnect unless something breaks. ;) john At 07:57 AM 1/11/2003 +0000, xj-digest wrote: >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:11:08 -0600 >From: "Joe" >Subject: xj: Selec-Trac > >My 1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, with Selec-Trac 4WD, features a full-time (any >surface) mode, and fails to disengage the front differential upon returning >to 2WD mode. The front hubs and axle seem to disengage only during a sharp >turn or two. Is this normal? I thought the front hubs and axle were designed >to disengage automatically. A shift out of part-time or low-range 4WD to 2WD >also does not disengage the hubs and differential. Will somebody please give >me some clues as to what's going on here, and what (if anything) should be >done to resolve this issue. (Backing up does NOT seem to disengage it, >either!) >Thanks! > >Joe - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:16:11 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] cargo areas: XJ, WJ and SJ - ROUGH APX At 01:39 AM 1/11/2003 -0600, Garrison St.Clair wrote: >John, > >The wheelbase on the ZJ and WJ is the same. The WJ is a bit more >aerodynamic and I think the rear slopes in and takes an inch or two out of >the interior. If you can measure, that would be great. The ZJ has a lot of other "issues". Three speed trans, chrysler push-rod v8s, mini-van styling... fuel tank problems... loosey-goosey suspension... I'd consider owning one, but only if I could get one real cheap. :) >I know very little about the SJ; I'll pick your brain on that another day. I love the SJ. Panascopic vision (great visibility), body on frame, leaf springs fore and aft and solid axles. lots of room, decent ride, very adaptable... However, the SJ has a few "issues" as well. Wiring, vacuum, boat anchor AMC v8's, quality control was optional on most units, duct and friction tape used in production, fuel economy comparable to the Queen Mary, and that lovely rear window that might or might not go down, or up... door locks that may or may not and a few other characteristics that make life interesting... oh yeah, it has a "personality" and likes to mark it's territory... (oil leaks of all sorts, thanx to said amc v8's and chrysler trannies that aren't the same as real chrysler trannies. ;) However, anyone that's tried one or owned one is pretty much hooked. For instance, I've owned 21 of 'em... of course several of those are parts rigs... and I've had 8 XJ's, two of those were parts rigs... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html >The retractable rear window is a big plus for me. I rarely run a/c. Rather >have fresh air, so being able to run with four doors and the lift window >down is a plus. If the concern is exhaust fumes, not a problem as I run an >exhaust stack to facilitate fording. you'd be happier with that flip up rear window on the WJ. >I'm mostly satisfied with my YJ. I wouldn't mind building a new version >suing the new TJ Rubicon as its got factory coil springs, disc brakes, D44 >front and rear with 4.10 and electrically selectable lockers that default to >limited-slip rather than open. > >OTOH, I do want to build a larger capacity expedition vehicle and that will >be the next project. Probably going to use a ZJ or WJ, but may yet consider >a late-series full-size Bronco or possibly an SJ based on some things I've >heard recently. stock SJ's have "issues", but once "upgraded" and modified they rock. I can hardly wait for my '83 J10 Stepside to be finished. :) >Also note that I won't be "building it" myself. I'll plan it out, source >the parts and accessories, and then run it though a reliable shop that will >knock out the job in under 90 days. If I have to fix it in the field I can, >but I don't have the slightest interest nor time - to have a long-term >project around. An SJ upgraded with either a WJ or XJ driveline will give you what you want... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:12:33 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: Selec-Trac AFAIK, they are connected all the time?? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: ; Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:11 PM Subject: xj: Selec-Trac > My 1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, with Selec-Trac 4WD, features a full-time (any > surface) mode, and fails to disengage the front differential upon returning > to 2WD mode. The front hubs and axle seem to disengage only during a sharp > turn or two. Is this normal? I thought the front hubs and axle were designed > to disengage automatically. A shift out of part-time or low-range 4WD to 2WD > also does not disengage the hubs and differential. Will somebody please give > me some clues as to what's going on here, and what (if anything) should be > done to resolve this issue. (Backing up does NOT seem to disengage it, > either!) > Thanks! > > Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:17:06 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: Re: selectrac My 88 does have one... Don - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 3:04 AM Subject: xj: Re: selectrac > xJ's haven't had axle disconnects since '87. > > my '87 has one, but my '88 didn't. the axle > and driveshaft are always spinning... only > the output of the xfr case disconnects. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 06:46:14 -0600 From: "Joe" Subject: xj: Re: Re: selectrac Interesting, John, but then the Xfer case does not disconnect either. IAW, I can feel and hear the connection of the front drive assembly when 4WD is engaged. The same slightly higher noise level and drag continues after it is shifted back into 2WD. This continues for a while; usually it goes on until I make a turn. So, if the xfer case is not disengaging when put into 2WD, what gives? And why is front end noise and "feel" still there after shifting into 2WD? Thanks! Joe - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 2:04 AM Subject: xj: Re: selectrac > > xJ's haven't had axle disconnects since '87. > > my '87 has one, but my '88 didn't. the axle > and driveshaft are always spinning... only > the output of the xfr case disconnects. > > according to the owners manual it only costs .1 mpg... serious. ;) > > so, no, there's nothing wrong with your '99 xj, it's fine. > axle and hubs won't disconnect unless something breaks. ;) > > john > > > At 07:57 AM 1/11/2003 +0000, xj-digest wrote: > > >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:11:08 -0600 > >From: "Joe" > >Subject: xj: Selec-Trac > > > >My 1999 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, with Selec-Trac 4WD, features a full-time (any > >surface) mode, and fails to disengage the front differential upon returning > >to 2WD mode. The front hubs and axle seem to disengage only during a sharp > >turn or two. Is this normal? I thought the front hubs and axle were designed > >to disengage automatically. A shift out of part-time or low-range 4WD to 2WD > >also does not disengage the hubs and differential. Will somebody please give > >me some clues as to what's going on here, and what (if anything) should be > >done to resolve this issue. (Backing up does NOT seem to disengage it, > >either!) > >Thanks! > > > >Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:10:27 -0700 From: "Aaron Storms" Subject: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac So do both of my 89's...Aaron - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hansen" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:17 AM Subject: xj: Re: Re: selectrac > My 88 does have one... > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john" > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 3:04 AM > Subject: xj: Re: selectrac > > > > xJ's haven't had axle disconnects since '87. > > > > my '87 has one, but my '88 didn't. the axle > > and driveshaft are always spinning... only > > the output of the xfr case disconnects. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:51:24 -0800 From: "Bill and Jen" Subject: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac There are a couple of things to consider here. First your year of xj does not have a front axle disconnect, nor does it have hubs of the unlocking variety. All of your front end parts turn all of the time no matter what. Your front drive line and t-case input shaft turns at half speed when in 2wd because of the open differential. When in 4wd they run at full speed because there is power being sent through them. Jeep t-cases are well known for being difficult to pop out of 4wd, they often stick in 4wd high mode until you drive it a little ways. Sometimes, stopping, putting it in rev and punching it works. In your case it's turning a corner(which causes the front and rear drivelines to run at different speeds)that is allowing the t-case to "synchronise" and pop into 2wd. Bill If it was safe, it wouldn't be fun! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:05:19 -0800 (PST) From: Billy Baynes Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac I am assuming you mis-spoke/typed here because this makes no sense. Billy - --- Bill and Jen wrote: > Your front drive line and t-case input shaft turns at half speed when > in > 2wd because of the open differential. When in 4wd they run at full speed > because there is power being sent through them. > > > Bill > > If it was safe, it wouldn't be fun! Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:08:56 -0800 From: "Bill and Jen" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac This is accurate, which part does not make sense? Bill If it was safe, it wouldn't be fun! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:18:37 -0800 From: john Subject: xj: cool WJ links Geoff, thanx for sharing the links... I haven't visited the wjjeep site recently and am amazed at all the resources! :) http://www.wjjeeps.com/ UA, isn't that United Arab Emirates? A 4 cylinder??? 2.5L 6 cylinder? Can you imagine having driven one like this and then getting into one with the 4.7L V8? :) They wouldn't be able to go back... I wonder what kind of fuel economy they get. And why would they care about fuel economy? ;) http://www.unitedmotors.com.ua/jeep_grandcherokee_e.html good info on the recalls too, my seatbelts are misbehaving, didn't realize there was a recall: http://www.wjjeeps.com/recall.htm This is nice to see... especially since so many folks confuse the ZJ-GC for the WJ. :) Totally different animal. http://www.wjjeeps.com/newoptions.htm Units built calendar year 1999: 343,536 - not a bad "intro". BTW, while the ZJ has the same wheelbase, the overall length of the WJ is greater! The WJ is 181.5 inches vs. the ZJ's 177.2, not sure how much of that translates to cargo area until it's measured. :) Jeep Dimensions rig - WB - length - Width ===================== J10 118.8 194.0 78.9 WJ 105.9 181.5 72.3 SJ 108.7 186.5 75.6 XJ 101.4 165.3 70.5 ZJ 105.9 177.2 70.9 TJ 93.4 152.8 68.2 YJ 93.4 152 66 CJ7 93.5 147.9 65.3 Found this on the wjjeep site too: Engines in 1999: # Engine, new 4.7L Power Tech V8 engine. SOHC, 16-valve, SMPI V-8 (235 horsepower, 295 lb.-ft. of torque) # Engine, 4.0-liter Power Tech OHV, 12-valve, SMPI I-6 engine upgraded (195 horsepower, 230 lb.-ft. of torque. New cylinder head, new exhaust manifolds, redesigned water pump and other improvements) Transmission:# new 45 RFE (Rear-wheel-drive Fully Electronic multispeed automatic transmission, provides a wide range of gear ratios for more precise shifts, alternate 2nd gear for smoother shifting and a reverse gear ratio that is equal to the 1st gear ration for easier trailer backing). And of course as the WJ continued improvements were made to the engine and trans... With this many units out there these drivelines are prime FSJ and XJ swap candidates. :) In a few years there'll be enough in the boneyards that the conversion setups will be affordable. You'll need the entire wiring harness and computers. I love the 4.7L V8 with Quadradrive... excellent freeway economy, gobs of power, very quick... this thing would be incredible in an XJ and probably do quite well in a Grand Wagoneer. If I could find a complete 4.7L V8/45RFE and QT II with all the computers and wiring at an affordable price I might go that route instead of the '96 4.0L HO in my '83 J10. I keep checking with the wrecking yard up in BC, but the stuff is still selling like platinum up there too. ;) That and even in the WJ the 4.0L gets 1 to 2mpg better then the V8, and the design objective with Superdawg is fuel economy for daily driving. :) My first preference in Jeep is the SJ model. But the old AMC v8s leaked and were terribly inefficient. The tailgates are a major pain in the drain. But body on frame with solid axles and plenty of room for mods and the best visibility available (aka Panascopic vision - thanks to Brook Stevens) it's a great base. I've gone down the J10 route to avoid the tailgate. I'm hoping that we'll be able to replicate the barn doors from the '67 J-100 and retrofit them on a newer Grand Wagoneer. At some point in time I could see building up an '86 or newer Grand Wagoneer with a 4.7L V8/45FRE or 545RFE/Quadtrac II, dana 44s (maybe with the gerotor technology moved over), barn doors, some nice leather heated seats from a WJ and a few other upgrades. Actually, any year Wagoneer would work..., just need a rust free and straight rig... oh well... first I have to get my J10 done. Maybe by summer... (was supposed to have been done on Labor Day 2001, then before Ouray 2002 (august)... In the meantime I'm having fun with the '87 XJ. john - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:54:48 -0600 From: Doug Wright Subject: Re: xj: cool WJ links >BTW, while the ZJ has the same wheelbase, the overall length of >the WJ is greater! The WJ is 181.5 inches vs. the ZJ's 177.2, not >sure how much of that translates to cargo area until it's measured. :) Doesn't that translate into decreased approach and departure angles :) The ZJ doesn't have as much unsightly overhang! However, I still think the XJ is more visually appealing and more evenly proportioned than either the ZJ or WJ. - -doug ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:29:04 -0800 (PST) From: Billy Baynes Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: Re: selectrac Everything you say is correct until "Your front drive line and t-case input shaft turns at half speed when in 2wd because of the open differential." It wouldn't matter what kind of diff you have, if there is no form of disconnect then both shafts will turn at the same speed unless one of the following is true. 1. different size tires 2. one or more wheels off of the ground 3. different gear ratios in use in the differentials. An open diff will allow the wheels on the same axle to turn at different speunimpededered by clutches or locking teeth but the drive shafts will still turn at relatively the same speed. Going around corners will cause them to travel at slightly different speeds since the front and back wheels are traveling different distances to complete the turn. "There are a couple of things to consider here. First your year of xj does not have a front axle disconnect, nor does it have hubs of the unlocking variety. All of your front end parts turn all of the time no matter what. Your front drive line and t-case input shaft turns at half speed when in 2wd because of the open differential. When in 4wd they run at full speed because there is power being sent through them." - --- Bill and Jen wrote: > This is accurate, which part does not make sense? > > Bill > > If it was safe, it wouldn't be fun! Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:28:02 -0600 From: Doug Wright Subject: xj: longarm Is anyone here running Rusty's longarm kit? How does it perform on and off road? Apparently, they are selling very well. I'm in the process of installing their 6" coils and 5" leaf springs (plus the extended shackles I already had). I've discovered that my rear brake line and rear shocks are too short. The shocks are stock length Rancho 9000s, and with the axle hanging in the air, they are too short to connect by 3-4". Any suggestions on shock length? I'm more in suspension performance when hitting stuff at speed rather than with being super flexy. I haven't figured out how to do the brake lines yet as I have a custom setup with a Ford 8.8" axle. - -doug ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1575 *************************