From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Nov 20 00:57:40 2003 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, November 20 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1733 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... xj: great article... Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:23:52 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... When my daughter's 89 XJ with 185000 on it started leaking fuel at the injectors, I ended up replacing all the injectors...Tried the o-ring route first... - -Don Hansen Braintree, MA. fixxa-at-beld.net 1995 XT Sport "Henry" 1998 GMC Jimmy SLT 1988 Grand Wagoneer "Edna" 1987 Jeep J-20 Pickup "Miss Agnes" (Retired) 1989 MJ Comanche Pickup (2WD) "Martha" 1988 XJ (Retired, but coming back!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john meister" To: "xj" ; "Alan Chung" Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... > one of the pastors from church just brought his '89 xj wagoneer over... > it's suffering from neglect: cooling > system/overheating, fuel leaks, brakes, hard starting... etc. I've > been very blessed in that my '87 with 246k+ hasn't > had any troubles so I've forgotten most of the 4.0L drills... > > Ok, > > fuel smell is probably bad O-rings, maybe a bad injector - will do a > visual on that > hard starting - I'm thinking CPS - but I'm open to ideas > I think I'm going to replace the dist cap & plugs, suspect it hasn't > been tuned either lately > (the church has been suffering with the economy, pastors haven't > been paid etc...) > brake fluid loss, either rear wheel cylinders or master cylinder > cooling system, water pump erosion? > > So, I guess the parts list to start out with should be: > - plugs & cap > - o-rings for injector rail > - water pump/tstat > - master cylinder > - cps??? > > I just degreased the engine with simple green... it's pouring rain > outside... carport is wet... so > hopefully I'll hear back from y'all on what else might be needed... > hopefully alan chung will respond, > after all he's the guru of things sensor on xj's. ;) > > later, > john > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:30:02 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... thanx... we'll see if it comes to that... the rain is decreasing, will head out and mess with it later... ;) john Don Hansen wrote: >When my daughter's 89 XJ with 185000 on it started leaking fuel at the >injectors, I ended up replacing all the injectors...Tried the o-ring route >first... > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:35:31 -0800 From: john meister Subject: xj: great article... got this from a friend... http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/2003/11/diesel_futures/print.phtml - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:23:08 -0600 From: "Mike Petersen" Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Something else to check is the fuel pressure regulator, just pull the vacume hose and see if RPM increases slightly. Also turn engine off and pull vacume hose and check for fuel leakage. Mike Petersen - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john meister" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:30 PM Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... thanx... we'll see if it comes to that... the rain is decreasing, will head out and mess with it later... ;) john Don Hansen wrote: >When my daughter's 89 XJ with 185000 on it started leaking fuel at the >injectors, I ended up replacing all the injectors...Tried the o-ring route >first... > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:46:04 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... how about a 2,500 rpm cold idle... whazzup with that? CPS? #2 injector leaking, not sure if it's the o-ring or the injector itself... When I disconnect the MAP it dies immediately... I think that's ok, right? john Mike Petersen wrote: >Something else to check is the fuel pressure regulator, just pull the vacume >hose and see if RPM increases slightly. Also turn engine off and pull vacume >hose and check for fuel leakage. > >Mike Petersen >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john meister" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:30 PM >Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... > > >thanx... we'll see if it comes to that... the rain is decreasing, will >head out >and mess with it later... ;) > >john > >Don Hansen wrote: > > > >>When my daughter's 89 XJ with 185000 on it started leaking fuel at the >>injectors, I ended up replacing all the injectors...Tried the o-ring route >>first... >> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:45:54 -0600 From: "Mike Petersen" Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... How about the idle air controler, most times they just need cleaned. They have a high idle when started and then the IAC brings it down to about 700 RPM. If that is not happening could just be carbon in the throttle body / IAC passage. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john meister" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:46 PM Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... how about a 2,500 rpm cold idle... whazzup with that? CPS? #2 injector leaking, not sure if it's the o-ring or the injector itself... When I disconnect the MAP it dies immediately... I think that's ok, right? john Mike Petersen wrote: >Something else to check is the fuel pressure regulator, just pull the vacume >hose and see if RPM increases slightly. Also turn engine off and pull vacume >hose and check for fuel leakage. > >Mike Petersen >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john meister" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:30 PM >Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... > > >thanx... we'll see if it comes to that... the rain is decreasing, will >head out >and mess with it later... ;) > >john > >Don Hansen wrote: > > > >>When my daughter's 89 XJ with 185000 on it started leaking fuel at the >>injectors, I ended up replacing all the injectors...Tried the o-ring route >>first... >> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:59:01 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... where's that jewel located? I'm going to tear into this thing tomorrow... john Mike Petersen wrote: >How about the idle air controler, most times they just need cleaned. They >have a high idle when started and then the IAC brings it down to about 700 >RPM. If that is not happening could just be carbon in the throttle body / >IAC passage. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john meister" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:46 PM >Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... > > >how about a 2,500 rpm cold idle... whazzup with that? CPS? > >#2 injector leaking, not sure if it's the o-ring or the injector itself... > >When I disconnect the MAP it dies immediately... I think that's ok, right? > >john > >Mike Petersen wrote: > > > >>Something else to check is the fuel pressure regulator, just pull the >> >> >vacume > > >>hose and see if RPM increases slightly. Also turn engine off and pull >> >> >vacume > > >>hose and check for fuel leakage. >> >>Mike Petersen >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "john meister" >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:30 PM >>Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... >> >> >>thanx... we'll see if it comes to that... the rain is decreasing, will >>head out >>and mess with it later... ;) >> >>john >> >>Don Hansen wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>When my daughter's 89 XJ with 185000 on it started leaking fuel at the >>>injectors, I ended up replacing all the injectors...Tried the o-ring route >>>first... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:03:24 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Subject: Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Hey John Yup, got your email...soory I havent had time to head out to your place...maybe with the holiday season rolling around, Ill be able to make sometime. Umm...so this XJ has been neglected eh? For hard starting, leaking injectors can cause this as well as a bad regulator. As someone else suggested, Id start with the O-rings. Also next time you try starting it, turn the key on and let it sit for 5 seconds...then crank. For some reason, on my XJ, the fuel pump seems to be lazy or I have a leaking down fuel pressure reg or the fule pump itself. If I start it quickly without pausing, Ill get a high idle. If I waitfor a few seconds, then start, it doesnt happen. I just let it go by as a quirk. Otherwise, it performs fine. The engine should die if you disconnect the MAP sensor. You can probabaly clean out the CPS and then see if it helps...probabaly unlikely. Cap/rotor/wires would definetaly help as well as some plugs too esp if they havent been changed in a while. You could also clean up the wires at the starter if it seems to be cranking slowly. Always helps to have a strong connection there. Ive driven my XJ the past couple days...Seems like everything works okay. Need to clean out the Neutral safety switch as sometimes I have to take it out of park to start...its kind of been neglected as well, but fluids are all clean and such. I only drive it once a month or so now...maybe 10-20 miles at most a month! A far cry from 1200 miles a month or so. The daily driver gets better gas mileage, is more confortable, and much faster. Hey John, any other questions? I didnt read the rest of the messages throughly, but they seem to be on the right track. Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:25:02 -0600 From: Doug Wright Subject: Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... So what IS the daily driver, Alan? :) - -doug >Hey John > > Yup, got your email...soory I havent had time to head out to your >place...maybe with the holiday season rolling around, Ill be able to >make sometime. > Umm...so this XJ has been neglected eh? For hard starting, leaking >injectors can cause this as well as a bad regulator. As someone else >suggested, Id start with the O-rings. Also next time you try starting >it, turn the key on and let it sit for 5 seconds...then crank. For some >reason, on my XJ, the fuel pump seems to be lazy or I have a leaking >down fuel pressure reg or the fule pump itself. If I start it quickly >without pausing, Ill get a high idle. If I waitfor a few seconds, then >start, it doesnt happen. I just let it go by as a quirk. Otherwise, it >performs fine. > The engine should die if you disconnect the MAP sensor. You can >probabaly clean out the CPS and then see if it helps...probabaly >unlikely. Cap/rotor/wires would definetaly help as well as some plugs >too esp if they havent been changed in a while. You could also clean up >the wires at the starter if it seems to be cranking slowly. Always >helps to have a strong connection there. > Ive driven my XJ the past couple days...Seems like everything works >okay. Need to clean out the Neutral safety switch as sometimes I have >to take it out of park to start...its kind of been neglected as well, >but fluids are all clean and such. I only drive it once a month or so >now...maybe 10-20 miles at most a month! A far cry from 1200 miles a >month or so. The daily driver gets better gas mileage, is more >confortable, and much faster. > Hey John, any other questions? I didnt read the rest of the messages >throughly, but they seem to be on the right track. > >Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:00:12 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Subject: Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... Hey All Okay, okay, the daily driver is a 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP...black of course. It had 42.5K miles on it when I bought it this past January. And yes, its got a supercharged 3800 V6. My next mods to it which are a cold air intake and smaller supercharger pulley should get it into the 260-265 hp neighborhood. Ive only got small mods on it like a TB spacer, one colder plugs, and 180 thermostat. Other than that Im not gonna get wild on it. It has been reliable thus far. Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 98 GP GTP __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:18:44 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: xj: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... sounds like Alan has the need for speed... only problem is living in Seattle where in the are you able to use it? :) Commute time from Everett to Seattle yesterday was 110 minutes... folks, that's for a 25 mile drive... on an 8 lane freeway... ;) john Alan wrote: >Hey All > > Okay, okay, the daily driver is a >1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP...black of course. >It had 42.5K miles on it when I bought it this past January. >And yes, its got a supercharged 3800 V6. My next mods to it which >are a cold air intake and smaller supercharger pulley should get it >into >the 260-265 hp neighborhood. Ive only got small mods on it like a TB >spacer, one colder plugs, and 180 thermostat. Other than that Im not >gonna get wild on it. It has been reliable thus far. > >Mahalo Alan Chung 90 Cherokee Limited 4.6 > 98 GP GTP > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:53:36 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: xj: Re: refresher on 4.0L sensors and such... replaced the o-rings, one injector, cleaned the TPS and idle controller motor... found the vacuum line to the map was broken at the base of the throttle body... plugs look ok (the three I checked) only 6 months old, installed new cap and rotor. Started right up, idled correctly, but upon throttle it kind of has a miss... a shudder... occassionally it'll shudder a bit at idle, not consistently.... when I activate the throttle it feels like it's hitting back... there is a slight chance I got a wire crossed... (not very likely... ;) I'm thinking that the vacuum lines should be replaced... but the miss isn't related to that as far as I can tell... thoughts? thanx, john - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1733 *************************