From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 27 09:46:33 2004 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, February 27 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1788 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: RE: Cherokee xj: RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model xj: rear speakers - carputer!!!! xj: RE: RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model xj: Re: [db] RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:24:40 -0500 From: Jesse Barbieri Subject: xj: Re: RE: Cherokee The panel just slides right up after you have all the "christmas trees" unhooked. There may be screws on the bottom corners, but they do not come stock. If they are there, someone put them there. From the factory, there are no screws on the back cover. Jesse By the way, they are 5 1/4" speakers. Be careful with the screws, the whole thing is fiberglass. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Boney Varghese" Cc: "xj-list" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: xj: RE: Cherokee > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Boney Varghese wrote: > > >-->I wanted to get new speakers installed in the rrear... I cant seem to > >-->get the panel opened up! I man ged to get the 'christmas trees' > >-->unhooked toward the Bottom but i cant figure out whats holding the top > >-->of the panel near the sky light in place > > there are a couple of screws somewhere, then the entire panel > lifts up toward the window... :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:49:06 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Greg Hancock wrote: >-->John, >-->I noticed your mention below of a turbo diesel Jeep XJ >-->and wanted to ask you for more information on this >-->interesting beast. I have a '96 XJ and would love to >-->convert it to diesel when the engine croaks... what >-->engine did you use and how difficult was the swap? Did >-->you do it yourself, or did you hire it out? What do >-->you get for fuel economy? It was factory... 85-87 2.1L All-aluminum Renault Turbo Diesel... it produced 85 bhp and 115ft lbs of torque... it actually put out 2 more hp then the carb'd version of the 2.5l! It got 26/32 with the 5speed. It did 0 to 60 in about 19 seconds or so... was pretty useless as a tow vehicle. :) 1st gear was too tall to get rolling with a load... I'd have to use low range to get rolling then pop into into 2wd high while rolling forward. :) Parts were expensive and rare... unless of course you had a french connection. ;) It was typical french bleeding edge design... timing belt that had to be changed, alternator compliments of paris-rhone that failed often. used a bosch injection pump and an air-garret turbo. The 5spd tranny was a pathetic excuse for a gear box, I think it was french as well. :) All in all I loved it and if it would have had an automatic I would have kept it. But that clutch setup in the XJ's did a number of my fifth lumbar and I had to part with it... :( >-->I hope you don't mind the questions, but I've always >-->wondered if such an engine swap was possible and, if >-->so, how hard it would be. they actually make the Jeep Cherokees with Diesels all over the world, except for here in the good ole U S of A... I suppose with have GM and the greenies to thank for it... I am considering using a Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel into an '87... but I'm not sure what will give out first... the '87 4.0L with 238,600 miles or the chassis itself... both are doing quite well. :) Jeep claims that in 2004 the Liberty will have a Turbo Diesel option... I've yet to see it advertised though. :( Knowing how much pain and suffering, and time, is involved in doing a conversion, I think I'd get over my aversion to the toon-town looks and the non-solid axles of the KJ to get one with a Diesel. :) BTW, I'm using a '96 4.0L out of an XJ in my '83 J10 stepside... it's been in work for a long, long time now... :( ttyl, john >-->Cheers, >--> >-->Greg Hancock >-->Seattle >--> >-->---------------------------------------- >--> >-->Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:21:32 -0800 >-->From: john >-->Subject: Diesel vs Gas MB E model >--> >-->>I'm sure this must be a old topic, but perhaps one >-->worth revisiting. I = >-->>posted this to alt.auto.mercedes and thought it would >-->be appropriate to = >-->>get opinions from all you diesel owners.=20 >-->> >-->>I currently own a 98 C280, which my wife drives. I >-->will be looking at >-->>something larger in the MB line for myself. >-->> >-->>I've been considering a E type diesel Vs gas. The >-->acceleration issue of = >-->>the >-->>diesel isn't a major problem for me, and the thought >-->of 250,000 plus = >-->>miles >-->>on the engine sounds attractive. But reviews of added >-->engine = >-->>maintenance, annoying vibration at idle, and >-->excessive noise at cruise = >-->>discourage me (along with hanging out at truck stops >-->:-) ). >-->> >-->>Any thoughts from the group? >-->> >-->>Scott Mack >-->Scott, >--> >-->First thing, please do not email HTML versions to the >-->list, they >-->bounce and I have to fix it... :) I'm forwarding your >-->note to the list. >--> >-->Second, EXCELLENT topic. >--> >-->Third, I've had 4 Mercedes, 3 Diesel, 1 gas. The gas >-->rig didn't hold >-->up as well, was exceedingly thirsty and costly to >-->repair. Didn't have >-->as much resale and isn't running right now because the >-->owner broke the >-->exhaust manifolds on the 4.5L V8 gas engine, $650 a >-->side to replace!!! >--> >-->The Mercedes Diesels are not that noisy, especially in >-->the cabin. I've >-->had many Diesels, American and European. The Mercedes >-->Diesels are the >-->finest, easiest to find parts for and very easy to >-->work on. >--> >-->As far as fuel, most Texaco, Shells and so on have >-->Diesel, even in the new >-->stores with the fast food outlets. I've also got a >-->commercial card lock >-->that I've used to fuel up with those truckers up and >-->down the west coast. >--> >-->Never, ever in over 15 years of driving a Dieselmobile >-->have I had problems >-->finding fuel. >--> >-->When I was filmed by a promotional video group by Jeep >-->this summer I tried >-->to get the Diesel message to Chrysler that we want the >-->Big Jeep (SJ's - the >-->Grand Wagoneers) brought back with Diesels. :) It >-->didn't make it into the >-->video they showed at the Jeep Camp though... :) >--> >-->The latest issue of STAR (MB club of America Magazine) >-->talks about a cabby >-->back east using the E300 Turbo Diesel and loving it. >--> IT's a beautiful >-->car, wish I could afford a new benz, because it'd be a >-->toss up between that >-->and the ML series... I hope they do make the ML270TD >-->available stateside. >--> >-->Diesel rules, gas stinks... :) >--> >-->(I had an 85 xj cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel, >-->on 4x4 runs >-->I used the handle "diesel john".) >--> >-->later, >-->john >--> >-->- ---------------------------------------------- >-->john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com >--> >--> Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... >--> ------------ >--> http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html >--> Jesus - don't leave life without him... >-->- ---------------------------------------------------- >--> >-->__________________________________ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:54:22 +0400 From: Boney Varghese Subject: xj: rear speakers - carputer!!!! YEAH.. FOUND THE SCREWS... I guess the previous owner must have put the there... Big disappointment though... I wanted to install the 5x9' three ways.... Strategic . Innovative . Technical Boney Varghese Sales Manager Al Yousuf LLC P.O.Box 25 Dubai, U.A.E incubus-at-emirates.net.ae tel: mobile: +9714 339 0000 +971 50 545 0436 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jesse Barbieri Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 04:25 To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: xj: Re: RE: Cherokee The panel just slides right up after you have all the "christmas trees" unhooked. There may be screws on the bottom corners, but they do not come stock. If they are there, someone put them there. From the factory, there are no screws on the back cover. Jesse By the way, they are 5 1/4" speakers. Be careful with the screws, the whole thing is fiberglass. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Boney Varghese" Cc: "xj-list" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: xj: RE: Cherokee > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Boney Varghese wrote: > > >-->I wanted to get new speakers installed in the rrear... I cant seem to > >-->get the panel opened up! I man ged to get the 'christmas trees' > >-->unhooked toward the Bottom but i cant figure out whats holding the top > >-->of the panel near the sky light in place > > there are a couple of screws somewhere, then the entire panel > lifts up toward the window... :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:07:03 -0000 From: "Vincent Bentley" Subject: xj: RE: RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model If anyone is interested in converting their XJ to diesel, I am willing to source complete original equipment 2.5TD VM engines with 5-speed manual transmissions and propshafts from the United Kingdom. These will either be used parts straight from an insurance recycler or reconditioned from the UK's top VM specialist. Diesel XJ's have been available in the UK since 1995. Please bear in mind that diesel XJ's had to have a 1" lift as standard because the sump is deeper. You will need a minimum of 1" suspension lift and a late model NP231/NV231 transfercase. I think this is 1995 onwards but not sure. In the UK we've only had the one spline size on the 231. The offer is not as a business, but person to person. I've been trying to locate a 1997+ Ford Explorer 8.8" axle with disc brakes and ABS for over a year in the UK with little success. I will need a friend to spend some time looking for a good axle in the USA for me in return. - --- Vincent Bentley w: http://www.jeepclub.co.uk t: +44(0)7900 437975 e: vince-at-jeepclub.co.uk - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: 27 February 2004 06:49 To: Greg Hancock Cc: xj-list; diesel-benz list Subject: xj: RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Greg Hancock wrote: >-->John, >-->I noticed your mention below of a turbo diesel Jeep XJ >-->and wanted to ask you for more information on this interesting >-->beast. I have a '96 XJ and would love to convert it to diesel when >-->the engine croaks... what engine did you use and how difficult was >-->the swap? Did you do it yourself, or did you hire it out? What do >-->you get for fuel economy? It was factory... 85-87 2.1L All-aluminum Renault Turbo Diesel... it produced 85 bhp and 115ft lbs of torque... it actually put out 2 more hp then the carb'd version of the 2.5l! It got 26/32 with the 5speed. It did 0 to 60 in about 19 seconds or so... was pretty useless as a tow vehicle. :) 1st gear was too tall to get rolling with a load... I'd have to use low range to get rolling then pop into into 2wd high while rolling forward. :) Parts were expensive and rare... unless of course you had a french connection. ;) It was typical french bleeding edge design... timing belt that had to be changed, alternator compliments of paris-rhone that failed often. used a bosch injection pump and an air-garret turbo. The 5spd tranny was a pathetic excuse for a gear box, I think it was french as well. :) All in all I loved it and if it would have had an automatic I would have kept it. But that clutch setup in the XJ's did a number of my fifth lumbar and I had to part with it... :( >-->I hope you don't mind the questions, but I've always wondered if >-->such an engine swap was possible and, if so, how hard it would be. they actually make the Jeep Cherokees with Diesels all over the world, except for here in the good ole U S of A... I suppose with have GM and the greenies to thank for it... I am considering using a Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel into an '87... but I'm not sure what will give out first... the '87 4.0L with 238,600 miles or the chassis itself... both are doing quite well. :) Jeep claims that in 2004 the Liberty will have a Turbo Diesel option... I've yet to see it advertised though. :( Knowing how much pain and suffering, and time, is involved in doing a conversion, I think I'd get over my aversion to the toon-town looks and the non-solid axles of the KJ to get one with a Diesel. :) BTW, I'm using a '96 4.0L out of an XJ in my '83 J10 stepside... it's been in work for a long, long time now... :( ttyl, john >-->Cheers, >--> >-->Greg Hancock >-->Seattle >--> >-->---------------------------------------- >--> >-->Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:21:32 -0800 >-->From: john >-->Subject: Diesel vs Gas MB E model >--> >-->>I'm sure this must be a old topic, but perhaps one >-->worth revisiting. I = >-->>posted this to alt.auto.mercedes and thought it would >-->be appropriate to = >-->>get opinions from all you diesel owners.=20 >-->> >-->>I currently own a 98 C280, which my wife drives. I >-->will be looking at >-->>something larger in the MB line for myself. >-->> >-->>I've been considering a E type diesel Vs gas. The >-->acceleration issue of = >-->>the >-->>diesel isn't a major problem for me, and the thought >-->of 250,000 plus = >-->>miles >-->>on the engine sounds attractive. But reviews of added >-->engine = >-->>maintenance, annoying vibration at idle, and >-->excessive noise at cruise = >-->>discourage me (along with hanging out at truck stops >-->:-) ). >-->> >-->>Any thoughts from the group? >-->> >-->>Scott Mack >-->Scott, >--> >-->First thing, please do not email HTML versions to the >-->list, they >-->bounce and I have to fix it... :) I'm forwarding your >-->note to the list. >--> >-->Second, EXCELLENT topic. >--> >-->Third, I've had 4 Mercedes, 3 Diesel, 1 gas. The gas >-->rig didn't hold >-->up as well, was exceedingly thirsty and costly to >-->repair. Didn't have >-->as much resale and isn't running right now because the owner broke >-->the exhaust manifolds on the 4.5L V8 gas engine, $650 a >-->side to replace!!! >--> >-->The Mercedes Diesels are not that noisy, especially in >-->the cabin. I've >-->had many Diesels, American and European. The Mercedes Diesels are >-->the finest, easiest to find parts for and very easy to >-->work on. >--> >-->As far as fuel, most Texaco, Shells and so on have >-->Diesel, even in the new >-->stores with the fast food outlets. I've also got a commercial card >-->lock that I've used to fuel up with those truckers up and >-->down the west coast. >--> >-->Never, ever in over 15 years of driving a Dieselmobile >-->have I had problems >-->finding fuel. >--> >-->When I was filmed by a promotional video group by Jeep >-->this summer I tried >-->to get the Diesel message to Chrysler that we want the >-->Big Jeep (SJ's - the >-->Grand Wagoneers) brought back with Diesels. :) It >-->didn't make it into the >-->video they showed at the Jeep Camp though... :) >--> >-->The latest issue of STAR (MB club of America Magazine) talks about a >-->cabby back east using the E300 Turbo Diesel and loving it. >--> IT's a beautiful >-->car, wish I could afford a new benz, because it'd be a >-->toss up between that >-->and the ML series... I hope they do make the ML270TD >-->available stateside. >--> >-->Diesel rules, gas stinks... :) >--> >-->(I had an 85 xj cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel, >-->on 4x4 runs >-->I used the handle "diesel john".) >--> >-->later, >-->john >--> >-->- ---------------------------------------------- >-->john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com >--> >--> Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... >--> ------------ >--> http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html >--> Jesus - don't leave life without him... >-->- ---------------------------------------------------- >--> >-->__________________________________ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:54:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] RE: Diesel vs Gas MB E model On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Vernon Tuck wrote: >-->Wasn't there a Jeep which came with a Peugeot diesel engine, produced at >-->some time and in some part of the world?? yes, I think so... the CJ series... they also used the Perkins Diesel. current/recent models in Europe have used the VM Diesel (Italian) john >--> >-->What's interesting about Peugeot is, to my understanding, they were the >-->first auto manufacturer to put a diesel engine into a car. >--> >-->On that basis alone I bought an engine out of a late 70s 504 station wagon >-->in the hopes that I could some day transplant it into a Jeep. >--> >-->Another one of my hare brained ideas... >--> >-->VT >--> >-->On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Greg Hancock wrote: >--> >-->>-->John, >-->>-->I noticed your mention below of a turbo diesel Jeep XJ >-->>-->and wanted to ask you for more information on this >-->>-->interesting beast. I have a '96 XJ and would love to >-->>-->convert it to diesel when the engine croaks... what >-->>-->engine did you use and how difficult was the swap? Did >-->>-->you do it yourself, or did you hire it out? What do >-->>-->you get for fuel economy? >--> >-->It was factory... 85-87 2.1L All-aluminum Renault Turbo Diesel... >-->it produced 85 bhp and 115ft lbs of torque... it actually put >-->out 2 more hp then the carb'd version of the 2.5l! >--> >-->It got 26/32 with the 5speed. It did 0 to 60 in about 19 seconds >-->or so... was pretty useless as a tow vehicle. :) 1st gear >-->was too tall to get rolling with a load... I'd have to use >-->low range to get rolling then pop into into 2wd high while >-->rolling forward. :) >--> >-->Parts were expensive and rare... unless of course you >-->had a french connection. ;) It was typical french bleeding >-->edge design... timing belt that had to be changed, alternator >-->compliments of paris-rhone that failed often. used a bosch >-->injection pump and an air-garret turbo. The 5spd tranny >-->was a pathetic excuse for a gear box, I think it was french >-->as well. :) >--> >-->All in all I loved it and if it would have had an automatic >-->I would have kept it. But that clutch setup in the XJ's did >-->a number of my fifth lumbar and I had to part with it... :( >--> >--> >-->>-->I hope you don't mind the questions, but I've always >-->>-->wondered if such an engine swap was possible and, if >-->>-->so, how hard it would be. >--> >-->they actually make the Jeep Cherokees with Diesels all over >-->the world, except for here in the good ole U S of A... >--> >-->I suppose with have GM and the greenies to thank for it... >--> >-->I am considering using a Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel into >-->an '87... but I'm not sure what will give out first... the >-->'87 4.0L with 238,600 miles or the chassis itself... both >-->are doing quite well. :) >--> >-->Jeep claims that in 2004 the Liberty will have a Turbo Diesel >-->option... I've yet to see it advertised though. :( >--> >-->Knowing how much pain and suffering, and time, is involved >-->in doing a conversion, I think I'd get over my aversion >-->to the toon-town looks and the non-solid axles of the KJ >-->to get one with a Diesel. :) >--> >-->BTW, I'm using a '96 4.0L out of an XJ in my '83 J10 stepside... >-->it's been in work for a long, long time now... :( >--> >-->ttyl, >-->john >--> >-->>-->Cheers, >-->>--> >-->>-->Greg Hancock >-->>-->Seattle >-->>--> >-->>-->---------------------------------------- >-->>--> >-->>-->Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:21:32 -0800 >-->>-->From: john >-->>-->Subject: Diesel vs Gas MB E model >-->>--> >-->>-->>I'm sure this must be a old topic, but perhaps one >-->>-->worth revisiting. I = >-->>-->>posted this to alt.auto.mercedes and thought it would >-->>-->be appropriate to = >-->>-->>get opinions from all you diesel owners.=20 >-->>-->> >-->>-->>I currently own a 98 C280, which my wife drives. I >-->>-->will be looking at >-->>-->>something larger in the MB line for myself. >-->>-->> >-->>-->>I've been considering a E type diesel Vs gas. The >-->>-->acceleration issue of = >-->>-->>the >-->>-->>diesel isn't a major problem for me, and the thought >-->>-->of 250,000 plus = >-->>-->>miles >-->>-->>on the engine sounds attractive. But reviews of added >-->>-->engine = >-->>-->>maintenance, annoying vibration at idle, and >-->>-->excessive noise at cruise = >-->>-->>discourage me (along with hanging out at truck stops >-->>-->:-) ). >-->>-->> >-->>-->>Any thoughts from the group? >-->>-->> >-->>-->>Scott Mack >-->>-->Scott, >-->>--> >-->>-->First thing, please do not email HTML versions to the >-->>-->list, they >-->>-->bounce and I have to fix it... :) I'm forwarding your >-->>-->note to the list. >-->>--> >-->>-->Second, EXCELLENT topic. >-->>--> >-->>-->Third, I've had 4 Mercedes, 3 Diesel, 1 gas. The gas >-->>-->rig didn't hold >-->>-->up as well, was exceedingly thirsty and costly to >-->>-->repair. Didn't have >-->>-->as much resale and isn't running right now because the >-->>-->owner broke the >-->>-->exhaust manifolds on the 4.5L V8 gas engine, $650 a >-->>-->side to replace!!! >-->>--> >-->>-->The Mercedes Diesels are not that noisy, especially in >-->>-->the cabin. I've >-->>-->had many Diesels, American and European. The Mercedes >-->>-->Diesels are the >-->>-->finest, easiest to find parts for and very easy to >-->>-->work on. >-->>--> >-->>-->As far as fuel, most Texaco, Shells and so on have >-->>-->Diesel, even in the new >-->>-->stores with the fast food outlets. I've also got a >-->>-->commercial card lock >-->>-->that I've used to fuel up with those truckers up and >-->>-->down the west coast. >-->>--> >-->>-->Never, ever in over 15 years of driving a Dieselmobile >-->>-->have I had problems >-->>-->finding fuel. >-->>--> >-->>-->When I was filmed by a promotional video group by Jeep >-->>-->this summer I tried >-->>-->to get the Diesel message to Chrysler that we want the >-->>-->Big Jeep (SJ's - the >-->>-->Grand Wagoneers) brought back with Diesels. :) It >-->>-->didn't make it into the >-->>-->video they showed at the Jeep Camp though... :) >-->>--> >-->>-->The latest issue of STAR (MB club of America Magazine) >-->>-->talks about a cabby >-->>-->back east using the E300 Turbo Diesel and loving it. >-->>--> IT's a beautiful >-->>-->car, wish I could afford a new benz, because it'd be a >-->>-->toss up between that >-->>-->and the ML series... I hope they do make the ML270TD >-->>-->available stateside. >-->>--> >-->>-->Diesel rules, gas stinks... :) >-->>--> >-->>-->(I had an 85 xj cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel, >-->>-->on 4x4 runs >-->>-->I used the handle "diesel john".) >-->>--> >-->>-->later, >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>-->- ---------------------------------------------- >-->>-->john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com >-->>--> >-->>--> Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... >-->>--> ------------ >-->>--> http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html >-->>--> Jesus - don't leave life without him... >-->>-->- ---------------------------------------------------- >-->>--> >-->>-->__________________________________ >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1788 *************************