From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Oct 23 10:48:27 2004 From: xj-digest xj-digest Saturday, October 23 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1936 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat Re: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat Re: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat xj: xfer case rebuild XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:25:32 -0400 From: "Paul Wright" Subject: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat I hear you on everything John! Couldn't agree w/ you more or the Liberty - toon vehicle, to the demise of the XJ, still my all time fav. I also wanted to look -at- the Toureg, but the price is the deciding factor. Did you try out the 6 cylinder? I just can't fathom spending that much on a car...... Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 3:04 AM Subject: xj: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat Got my invite in the mail to see the new Grand Cherokee, so I made a point of getting to the dealership to at least get the free gift... a nice compass/stopwatch... rather heavy, but still nice. I thought the new Grand Cherokee looked a bit like a Dodge to me in the ads, and a close up verified that... the roof has been lowered, which makes it look like the new dodge magnum... the door frames are thicker, further reduce visibility... the interior looks spartan and cheap... the two other major disappointments with it is the suspension... they went independent in the front... big old hunk of metal right in the way, just like the rigs I've seen high centered on the trails... They moved the spare tire under the back, like the old Grand Wagoneers. (I thought that was an undesirable thing... I remember selling Fords in the '70's and listening to the farmers and hunters complain about having the spare under there...) I didn't bother to test drive it... the one I was looking at had that anemic 3.7L V6. The one with the 5.7L v8 was out on a test drive... I'm sure it's fast, my '99 4.7L V8 was impressive. But I don't like what they've done to it... It's lost it's nice looks. The WJ is a very beautiful vehicle... The XJ is also a very nice looking rig despite it's boxiness. The KJ is just too goofy looking, like a toon town vehicle... The KJ has some Benz influence with the window switches in the center console. So, I went two dealerships to the left and checked out a Toureg. I'm impressed. I drove the V8 model. It's very much like the WJ with the 4.7L V8, very quick, smooth and fast. It's got very nice lines, a wonderful interior, a superb instrument cluster setup, nice seats, quieter than a WJ, rides nice and the brakes are phenomenal. It didn't have the same tight feel as the WJ, but still very nice, and better than a KJ. The suspension was not abrupt or harsh. The price tag is the only real problem... one that will be less of a concern in a year or two or three... ;) I really want to drive a Toureg with the TDI, but they don't get very many of them in. The dealership is allocated about 1 or 2! I'll keep my eyes open for one with the V10 TDI... I also heard some talk that the smaller TDI might bet installed in the Toureg. As long as it's a Diesel and a 4x4 count me in. The Toureg felt and looked more like a Range Rover than a VW, except of course that the controls were intuitive and made sense. :) I noticed the Passat TDI wagon, guess it comes with that all wheel drive setup... so I test drove it. It's a 2.0L TDI. It doesn't come off the line as quick as my '91 300d, but it pulls evenly until it gets in it's midrange and then it comes to life... but only briefly before it shifts and starts the steady pull again. It's not a bad car, decent ride and quality, but for $28,000 I'll keep my 198,000 mile 1991 300D that gets better mileage. (epa on the Passat was 27/38 or so) I think my '91 300d had very similar or even higher mileage rating, but I'm getting 30-31 mpg in town and have seen almost 40 on the highway. That and the Benz is a lot faster off the line and through the entire power band. The Passat also had a noticeable vibration at idle, reminded me of my '83 GMC Jimmy with the 6.2L Diesel. Driving home in my '91 300d was a real pleasure. :) It's paid for, almost everything is working and it really is a superbly engineered automobile. If the TDI Toureg got about the same mileage as it and the price (used) was within reason I could see giving up the Benz for a Toureg, but not for a new Grand Cherokee (even if it had a Diesel) or a Passat. Too bad we never got the Diesel powered WJ's here in the states. I enjoyed my '85 XJ with that 2.1L Turbo Diesel, and I'd still have it if it would have had an automatic transmission. Anyway, I believe that Jeep has really done another dumb thing. Of course there are people that will buy the new GC. People are buying the Liberty with it's anemic V6, sloppy handling, butt ugly looks and limited cargo space. But it's lost some of the Jeep heritage. Solid axles are just something I'm not ready to part with on a Jeep. :) I guess I have a hard time getting over the demise of the SJ and the XJ... and now the WJ... :( I've had 22 SJ's, 9 XJ's, and 2 WJ's, and of course at least one MJ, a Willys Wagon and a Jeepster. But never had a bobtail... Jeep goofed with the ZJ, I still think it looks like a Chrysler minivan... but then they came back with the WJ, which is a superb vehicle. But now, they've finished the WJ model and moved onto something that looks more Dodge than Jeep... Doesn't even have the -J model designator... what is this thing, a WK or something like that? I'll test drive it one of these days, but I'll be looking more seriously at nice used WJs and Touregs before I consider the new Grand Cherokee... My wife's '99 WJ Laredo looks real good to me after seeing the new GC. I guess building a Jeep makes more sense than buying one. :) Can hardly wait for my '83 J10 stepside to be finished... maybe next year... :) later, john meister '99 WJ Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0L '91 300d 2.5L TD '83 J10 Stepside (getting a '96 4.0L in place of the 4.2L) '83 GMC Jimmy 6.2L Diesel (would love to drop something unusual on this chassis... :) '78 J10 Golden Eagle '75 J10 hydraulic dump trailer '67 J100 Panel http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat I've heard this about VW's before... I've had about 6 VW's ranging from a '64 Karman Gia through an early '80s Rabbit... There was night and day difference between the Passat and the Toureg though... component quality, construction, etc. quite different... but since I'm not willing (yet) to drop that kind of coin on any vehicle, I'll be looking at one in two or three years or more. Someday I hope to buy a new vehicle, but I've been very fortunate to find almost exactly the vehicle I would have bought new, but used 4 years or so old. Good stewardship to do it this way... but perhaps someday the vehicle, budget and desire will all work out and I'll finally get my first new car. :) john On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->i hear ya, john and agree with everything about the new GC and libby. but, >-->however, be cautious of the VWs. i'm sure they are very impressive up >-->front.. how could they not be? but, the main reason i say this is because >-->my wife has a Passat wagon GLX with the VR-6 and it's nothing but a pile. >-->when it's running well, it's a great car. comfie, fairly powerful, and >-->sporty. but the main thing is durability and assembly enginering. when >-->these things start to go (at around 90k miles), look out. everything goes >-->and to work on them is a nightmare. don't get me wrong - it's not because >-->it's an import and not a jeep. i've worked on plenty of imports before >-->(even swapped motors in a honda) and in a lot of instances, i say the layout >-->and design of many components in VWs is just wrong. heater core being one >-->premium example and the very poor window operating mechanism. >-->anywho, just thought i'd chime in. >-->can't wait to get my j-truck project finished either! >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: >-->Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 3:04 AM >-->Subject: fsj: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat >-->> I guess building a Jeep makes more sense than buying one. :) Can >-->> hardly wait for my '83 J10 stepside to be finished... maybe next >-->> year... :) >-->> >-->> later, >-->> john meister >-->> '99 WJ Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0L >-->> '91 300d 2.5L TD >-->> '83 J10 Stepside (getting a '96 4.0L in place of the 4.2L) >-->> '83 GMC Jimmy 6.2L Diesel (would love to drop something unusual on this >-->chassis... :) >-->> '78 J10 Golden Eagle >-->> '75 J10 hydraulic dump trailer >-->> '67 J100 Panel >-->> http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:49:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Paul Wright wrote: >-->I hear you on everything John! Couldn't agree w/ you more or the Liberty - >-->toon vehicle, to the demise of the XJ, still my all time fav. I also wanted >-->to look -at- the Toureg, but the price is the deciding factor. Did you try out >-->the 6 cylinder? I just can't fathom spending that much on a car...... >--> >-->Paul not yet, but I will... I think our '99 WJ Laredo will serve us nicely for some time... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:58:18 -0400 From: "Paul Wright" Subject: Re: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat i hear you :) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: Re: xj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toureg, and a Passat On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Paul Wright wrote: >-->I hear you on everything John! Couldn't agree w/ you more or the >Liberty - >-->toon vehicle, to the demise of the XJ, still my all time fav. I also >wanted >-->to look -at- the Toureg, but the price is the deciding factor. Did you try >out >-->the 6 cylinder? I just can't fathom spending that much on a car...... >--> >-->Paul not yet, but I will... I think our '99 WJ Laredo will serve us nicely for some time... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:43:16 -0500 From: Doug Wright Subject: xj: xfer case rebuild I've currently got my transfer case opened up to do a SYE installation (basically just an output shaft swap), and I was wondering if there was anything I should check or replace while I have it apart. It's a NP231 out of an 88XJ 4.0L with an AX-15 transmission. I believe it is the original case, but it was opened up in '98 to swap the input gear. I've got the Haynes and FSM, but neither was any help in this area, other than showing the exploded view of the t-case. The insides look pretty clean, and there weren't any metal bits floating around in there, other than a few very fine pieces on the magnet. The chain looks good, but I'm not sure how to check it for wear or stretch (it may be the original chain). Thanks, Doug ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1936 *************************