From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Dec 7 12:19:10 2004 From: xj-digest xj-digest Tuesday, December 7 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1977 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:44:30 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Don Hansen wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->What's the deal with the new Grand? Is there a new ?J designation? Is it >-->as different as the ads purport??? "Beats an Audi..."?! the new grand is a "WK" designator... it's a smooth accelerator, but I don't like it for a variety of reasons... it's too much like a chysler/dodge product with the revised roof line... lack of space and visibilty. the WJs, 1999-2004 are much better looking I think. The new WK does incorporate a couple of "FSJ" features... spare underneath and the fuel tank on driver's side center, in the "frame" rails. The front independent suspension reduces usable ground clearance and makes it nearly impossible to access under engine components. The rear suspension looks flimsey to me. Overall the Magnum 5.7L V8 did not impress me enough to buy one... the 4.7L V8 is sweet enough. I'd have to compare the numbers side by side but with the added complexity goes reduced reliability... I'd recommend sticking with the 4.7L V8. I would avoid the 3.7L V6... I don't care for that engine, it's anemic. They should have kept the 4.0L I-6. Sure, the Magnum powered WK will beat an Audi, but that can be done with a 3.8L Buick V6 built up and stuffed into an '81 Chevy Luv... BTDT. :) Since when did Jeeper's start worrying about beating Audi's??? Who cares? We don't buy Jeeps to race, we buy them to drive off road, haul stuff and to have surefootedness on road. The boys and girls in marketing have lost touch with the real Jeepers. Too much influence on the design of Jeep by all components of Daimler-Chrysler. NOT a good thing either. If I wanted a Dodge I'd buy a Dodge. If I wanted a Mercedes, I'd buy a Mercedes... oh wait, I did. ;) Jeep should be different... I believe that the WK is a decent vehicle, but it's received by me the same way the ZJ was received... with a yawn and no desire to own one... I'll keep the nicer looking WJ even though it's slower, noisier and supposedly rides harsher. :) john >--> >-->-Don >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: >-->Cc: "xj-list" >-->Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:45 AM >-->Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? >--> >--> >-->> The WJ comes with 3.73's and overdrive. 3.73s are a pretty good >-->> gear set for all around flexibility, and almost essential without an >-->> overdrive. 4.10's are also a good set of gears and what I'm installing >-->> in my '83 J10 stepside where I'm using a 4.0L with a full time (quadratrac >-->> NP219) xfr case, along with the AW4 overdrive. >-->> >-->> I've had both WJ's with the 8 and the 6. I haven't had the six out >-->> enough to see the highway mileage difference, but the 2mpg difference >-->> is realistic with the 6 from what we've seen so far and what I've >-->> heard on this list. >-->> >-->> The v8 is a sweet engine, revs quickly and smoothly and with amsoil >-->> synthetics can get 20-21mpg on the freeway. >-->> >-->> I'm not sure what the OD of the stock tires is now, it's got to be >-->> close to 30.5 or even 31" from the looks of it... going to 32" isn't >-->> that severe, and the lift has little or no bearing in the economy or >-->> gearing issues. >-->> >-->> It's expensive going to a different gear set. If you're having to >-->> repair the rear end on a v8 WJ because they didn't set it up correctly, >-->> that's a partial incentive, but not enough reason in my mind... >-->> >-->> If you're interested in economy go with the 6, 4" of lift and >-->> bigger tires. You may be surprised at the results. My '87 XJ >-->> with the 6, 31's and stock 3.55's would do 21 mpg easliy on the >-->> freeway and around 17 in town! Taller gears are not a bad thing >-->> unless you're trying to do rock crawling, burnouts or stop light >-->> drag the ricers. >-->> >-->> I've had both the 6 and the 8, I chose a 6 this time, and am >-->> putting one in my Full size Jeep. >-->> >-->> FOR THE RECORD, I do NOT like the 3.7L V6. I don't care much >-->> for any V6, but the 3.7 is anemic and a poor replacement for >-->> the venerable I-6 4.0L. I think the 4.0L is the best engine >-->> ever put in a Jeep. The powertech I-6 put in the WJ's has >-->> significant refinements that make it even more simple and more >-->> efficient. >-->> >-->> So, my vote is the 6, full time four wheel drive, stock 3.73's >-->> (although some of the 6's might have 4.10's... isn't that an >-->> option if I remember correctly?), the 4" of lift and the slightly >-->> bigger tires... It won't be a rocket ship, but it will sail >-->> past fuel stops with a smile. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, scott blue wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Hey John, or anybody with knowledge on the subject, I have a question >-->for >-->> you. If you were going to buy a WJ to lift 4 inches and put 32 inch tires >-->on >-->> it, would you buy the V8 or the 6? The shop I have been talking to tells >-->me >-->> that no matter which one I buy, I should put 4:11 gears in it. I don't >-->think >-->> that is a good idea. If I wanted to go for 0 to 60 in about 100 yards, it >-->> would be good. I want to keep stock gas mileage as close as possible. I >-->would >-->> also like to keep stock power if I can. what would you suggest? I do plan >-->on >-->> putting a catback and an Airaid intake on it, so I know these will help >-->with >-->> power. I'm confused on the gearing. I would like the V8, because I thought >-->I >-->> might get away without gearing it, and I have been told that the stock gas >-->> mileage is close between the 6 and the 8, about 2 mile to the gallon >-->> difference. Then you also have to think about the full time 4 wheel drive >-->> verses the 2WD in the 6. what are your thoughts on this? One guy told me >-->he >-->> never met a guy >-->> >--> that said he wished he had the 6, after he bought the 8. can you >-->help? >-->> >-->Scott >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >--> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:07:30 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? "K"?????? Another break with tradition!!!! The one I saw looked like a lot of other utes. NOT inspiring! I agree that the old Grand is MUCH better looking. Bloody Krauts! - -Don - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Cc: "full size jeep list" ; Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:44 PM Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Don Hansen wrote: > > >-->John, > >--> > >-->What's the deal with the new Grand? Is there a new ?J designation? Is it > >-->as different as the ads purport??? "Beats an Audi..."?! > > the new grand is a "WK" designator... it's a smooth accelerator, but > I don't like it for a variety of reasons... it's too much like a chysler/dodge > product with the revised roof line... lack of space and visibilty. > > the WJs, 1999-2004 are much better looking I think. > > The new WK does incorporate a couple of "FSJ" features... spare underneath > and the fuel tank on driver's side center, in the "frame" rails. > > The front independent suspension reduces usable ground clearance and > makes it nearly impossible to access under engine components. The rear > suspension looks flimsey to me. > > Overall the Magnum 5.7L V8 did not impress me enough to buy one... the > 4.7L V8 is sweet enough. I'd have to compare the numbers side by side > but with the added complexity goes reduced reliability... I'd recommend > sticking with the 4.7L V8. I would avoid the 3.7L V6... I don't care > for that engine, it's anemic. They should have kept the 4.0L I-6. > > Sure, the Magnum powered WK will beat an Audi, but that can be done > with a 3.8L Buick V6 built up and stuffed into an '81 Chevy Luv... BTDT. :) > > Since when did Jeeper's start worrying about beating Audi's??? Who cares? > We don't buy Jeeps to race, we buy them to drive off road, haul stuff and > to have surefootedness on road. > > The boys and girls in marketing have lost touch with the real Jeepers. > > Too much influence on the design of Jeep by all components of Daimler-Chrysler. > NOT a good thing either. If I wanted a Dodge I'd buy a Dodge. If I > wanted a Mercedes, I'd buy a Mercedes... oh wait, I did. ;) > > Jeep should be different... I believe that the WK is a decent vehicle, > but it's received by me the same way the ZJ was received... with a yawn > and no desire to own one... I'll keep the nicer looking WJ even though > it's slower, noisier and supposedly rides harsher. :) > > john > > > > > >--> > >-->-Don > >--> > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: "john" > >-->To: > >-->Cc: "xj-list" > >-->Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:45 AM > >-->Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? > >--> > >--> > >-->> The WJ comes with 3.73's and overdrive. 3.73s are a pretty good > >-->> gear set for all around flexibility, and almost essential without an > >-->> overdrive. 4.10's are also a good set of gears and what I'm installing > >-->> in my '83 J10 stepside where I'm using a 4.0L with a full time (quadratrac > >-->> NP219) xfr case, along with the AW4 overdrive. > >-->> > >-->> I've had both WJ's with the 8 and the 6. I haven't had the six out > >-->> enough to see the highway mileage difference, but the 2mpg difference > >-->> is realistic with the 6 from what we've seen so far and what I've > >-->> heard on this list. > >-->> > >-->> The v8 is a sweet engine, revs quickly and smoothly and with amsoil > >-->> synthetics can get 20-21mpg on the freeway. > >-->> > >-->> I'm not sure what the OD of the stock tires is now, it's got to be > >-->> close to 30.5 or even 31" from the looks of it... going to 32" isn't > >-->> that severe, and the lift has little or no bearing in the economy or > >-->> gearing issues. > >-->> > >-->> It's expensive going to a different gear set. If you're having to > >-->> repair the rear end on a v8 WJ because they didn't set it up correctly, > >-->> that's a partial incentive, but not enough reason in my mind... > >-->> > >-->> If you're interested in economy go with the 6, 4" of lift and > >-->> bigger tires. You may be surprised at the results. My '87 XJ > >-->> with the 6, 31's and stock 3.55's would do 21 mpg easliy on the > >-->> freeway and around 17 in town! Taller gears are not a bad thing > >-->> unless you're trying to do rock crawling, burnouts or stop light > >-->> drag the ricers. > >-->> > >-->> I've had both the 6 and the 8, I chose a 6 this time, and am > >-->> putting one in my Full size Jeep. > >-->> > >-->> FOR THE RECORD, I do NOT like the 3.7L V6. I don't care much > >-->> for any V6, but the 3.7 is anemic and a poor replacement for > >-->> the venerable I-6 4.0L. I think the 4.0L is the best engine > >-->> ever put in a Jeep. The powertech I-6 put in the WJ's has > >-->> significant refinements that make it even more simple and more > >-->> efficient. > >-->> > >-->> So, my vote is the 6, full time four wheel drive, stock 3.73's > >-->> (although some of the 6's might have 4.10's... isn't that an > >-->> option if I remember correctly?), the 4" of lift and the slightly > >-->> bigger tires... It won't be a rocket ship, but it will sail > >-->> past fuel stops with a smile. > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, scott blue wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->Hey John, or anybody with knowledge on the subject, I have a question > >-->for > >-->> you. If you were going to buy a WJ to lift 4 inches and put 32 inch tires > >-->on > >-->> it, would you buy the V8 or the 6? The shop I have been talking to tells > >-->me > >-->> that no matter which one I buy, I should put 4:11 gears in it. I don't > >-->think > >-->> that is a good idea. If I wanted to go for 0 to 60 in about 100 yards, it > >-->> would be good. I want to keep stock gas mileage as close as possible. I > >-->would > >-->> also like to keep stock power if I can. what would you suggest? I do plan > >-->on > >-->> putting a catback and an Airaid intake on it, so I know these will help > >-->with > >-->> power. I'm confused on the gearing. I would like the V8, because I thought > >-->I > >-->> might get away without gearing it, and I have been told that the stock gas > >-->> mileage is close between the 6 and the 8, about 2 mile to the gallon > >-->> difference. Then you also have to think about the full time 4 wheel drive > >-->> verses the 2WD in the 6. what are your thoughts on this? One guy told me > >-->he > >-->> never met a guy > >-->> >--> that said he wished he had the 6, after he bought the 8. can you > >-->help? > >-->> >-->Scott > >-->> >--> > >-->> >--> > >-->> >--> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > >-->> > >-->> ---- > >-->> > >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- > >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Don Hansen wrote: >-->"K"?????? Another break with tradition!!!! >--> >-->The one I saw looked like a lot of other utes. NOT inspiring! I agree that >-->the old Grand is MUCH better looking. >--> >-->Bloody Krauts! it ain't the krauts... it's the bureaucrats in detroit... john >--> >-->-Don >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: >-->Cc: "full size jeep list" ; >-->Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:44 PM >-->Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? >--> >--> >-->> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Don Hansen wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->John, >-->> >--> >-->> >-->What's the deal with the new Grand? Is there a new ?J designation? >-->Is it >-->> >-->as different as the ads purport??? "Beats an Audi..."?! >-->> >-->> the new grand is a "WK" designator... it's a smooth accelerator, but >-->> I don't like it for a variety of reasons... it's too much like a >-->chysler/dodge >-->> product with the revised roof line... lack of space and visibilty. >-->> >-->> the WJs, 1999-2004 are much better looking I think. >-->> >-->> The new WK does incorporate a couple of "FSJ" features... spare underneath >-->> and the fuel tank on driver's side center, in the "frame" rails. >-->> >-->> The front independent suspension reduces usable ground clearance and >-->> makes it nearly impossible to access under engine components. The rear >-->> suspension looks flimsey to me. >-->> >-->> Overall the Magnum 5.7L V8 did not impress me enough to buy one... the >-->> 4.7L V8 is sweet enough. I'd have to compare the numbers side by side >-->> but with the added complexity goes reduced reliability... I'd recommend >-->> sticking with the 4.7L V8. I would avoid the 3.7L V6... I don't care >-->> for that engine, it's anemic. They should have kept the 4.0L I-6. >-->> >-->> Sure, the Magnum powered WK will beat an Audi, but that can be done >-->> with a 3.8L Buick V6 built up and stuffed into an '81 Chevy Luv... BTDT. >-->:) >-->> >-->> Since when did Jeeper's start worrying about beating Audi's??? Who cares? >-->> We don't buy Jeeps to race, we buy them to drive off road, haul stuff and >-->> to have surefootedness on road. >-->> >-->> The boys and girls in marketing have lost touch with the real Jeepers. >-->> >-->> Too much influence on the design of Jeep by all components of >-->Daimler-Chrysler. >-->> NOT a good thing either. If I wanted a Dodge I'd buy a Dodge. If I >-->> wanted a Mercedes, I'd buy a Mercedes... oh wait, I did. ;) >-->> >-->> Jeep should be different... I believe that the WK is a decent vehicle, >-->> but it's received by me the same way the ZJ was received... with a yawn >-->> and no desire to own one... I'll keep the nicer looking WJ even though >-->> it's slower, noisier and supposedly rides harsher. :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->-Don >-->> >--> >-->> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->> >-->From: "john" >-->> >-->To: >-->> >-->Cc: "xj-list" >-->> >-->Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:45 AM >-->> >-->Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> The WJ comes with 3.73's and overdrive. 3.73s are a pretty good >-->> >-->> gear set for all around flexibility, and almost essential without an >-->> >-->> overdrive. 4.10's are also a good set of gears and what I'm >-->installing >-->> >-->> in my '83 J10 stepside where I'm using a 4.0L with a full time >-->(quadratrac >-->> >-->> NP219) xfr case, along with the AW4 overdrive. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> I've had both WJ's with the 8 and the 6. I haven't had the six out >-->> >-->> enough to see the highway mileage difference, but the 2mpg >-->difference >-->> >-->> is realistic with the 6 from what we've seen so far and what I've >-->> >-->> heard on this list. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> The v8 is a sweet engine, revs quickly and smoothly and with amsoil >-->> >-->> synthetics can get 20-21mpg on the freeway. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> I'm not sure what the OD of the stock tires is now, it's got to be >-->> >-->> close to 30.5 or even 31" from the looks of it... going to 32" isn't >-->> >-->> that severe, and the lift has little or no bearing in the economy or >-->> >-->> gearing issues. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> It's expensive going to a different gear set. If you're having to >-->> >-->> repair the rear end on a v8 WJ because they didn't set it up >-->correctly, >-->> >-->> that's a partial incentive, but not enough reason in my mind... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> If you're interested in economy go with the 6, 4" of lift and >-->> >-->> bigger tires. You may be surprised at the results. My '87 XJ >-->> >-->> with the 6, 31's and stock 3.55's would do 21 mpg easliy on the >-->> >-->> freeway and around 17 in town! Taller gears are not a bad thing >-->> >-->> unless you're trying to do rock crawling, burnouts or stop light >-->> >-->> drag the ricers. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> I've had both the 6 and the 8, I chose a 6 this time, and am >-->> >-->> putting one in my Full size Jeep. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> FOR THE RECORD, I do NOT like the 3.7L V6. I don't care much >-->> >-->> for any V6, but the 3.7 is anemic and a poor replacement for >-->> >-->> the venerable I-6 4.0L. I think the 4.0L is the best engine >-->> >-->> ever put in a Jeep. The powertech I-6 put in the WJ's has >-->> >-->> significant refinements that make it even more simple and more >-->> >-->> efficient. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> So, my vote is the 6, full time four wheel drive, stock 3.73's >-->> >-->> (although some of the 6's might have 4.10's... isn't that an >-->> >-->> option if I remember correctly?), the 4" of lift and the slightly >-->> >-->> bigger tires... It won't be a rocket ship, but it will sail >-->> >-->> past fuel stops with a smile. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, scott blue wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->Hey John, or anybody with knowledge on the subject, I have a >-->question >-->> >-->for >-->> >-->> you. If you were going to buy a WJ to lift 4 inches and put 32 inch >-->tires >-->> >-->on >-->> >-->> it, would you buy the V8 or the 6? The shop I have been talking to >-->tells >-->> >-->me >-->> >-->> that no matter which one I buy, I should put 4:11 gears in it. I >-->don't >-->> >-->think >-->> >-->> that is a good idea. If I wanted to go for 0 to 60 in about 100 >-->yards, it >-->> >-->> would be good. I want to keep stock gas mileage as close as >-->possible. I >-->> >-->would >-->> >-->> also like to keep stock power if I can. what would you suggest? I do >-->plan >-->> >-->on >-->> >-->> putting a catback and an Airaid intake on it, so I know these will >-->help >-->> >-->with >-->> >-->> power. I'm confused on the gearing. I would like the V8, because I >-->thought >-->> >-->I >-->> >-->> might get away without gearing it, and I have been told that the >-->stock gas >-->> >-->> mileage is close between the 6 and the 8, about 2 mile to the gallon >-->> >-->> difference. Then you also have to think about the full time 4 wheel >-->drive >-->> >-->> verses the 2WD in the 6. what are your thoughts on this? One guy >-->told me >-->> >-->he >-->> >-->> never met a guy >-->> >-->> >--> that said he wished he had the 6, after he bought the 8. can >-->you >-->> >-->help? >-->> >-->> >-->Scott >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >--> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->> >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> >-->>-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #1977 *************************