From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Dec 8 20:00:00 2004 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, December 9 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1978 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? xj: Late Night YJ pull out Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Re: xj: Late Night YJ pull outx xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Need Opinions XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:36:29 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? A: I concurr on using 3.73. I even have 33" tires on my Comanche with 3.08 that will gain top speed and power in 5th when I complete the swap (which was planned for today, but I awoke with the mother of all nosebleeds!) Raising the newer Jeeps is tougher unless you also swap out the speed sensors or match the tire height/gear ratio. Otherwise you have major driveability issues. I would sooner stick with the 4.0L 6, because if it's not quite powerful enough, you can always stroke it to 4.6L (or bigger) >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: >-->Cc: "xj-list" >-->Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:45 AM >-->Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? >--> >--> >-->> The WJ comes with 3.73's and overdrive. 3.73s are a pretty good >-->> gear set for all around flexibility, and almost essential without an >-->> overdrive. 4.10's are also a good set of gears and what I'm >installing >-->> in my '83 J10 stepside where I'm using a 4.0L with a full time >(quadratrac >-->> NP219) xfr case, along with the AW4 overdrive. >-->> >-->> I've had both WJ's with the 8 and the 6. I haven't had the six out >-->> enough to see the highway mileage difference, but the 2mpg difference >-->> is realistic with the 6 from what we've seen so far and what I've >-->> heard on this list. >-->> >-->> The v8 is a sweet engine, revs quickly and smoothly and with amsoil >-->> synthetics can get 20-21mpg on the freeway. >-->> >-->> I'm not sure what the OD of the stock tires is now, it's got to be >-->> close to 30.5 or even 31" from the looks of it... going to 32" isn't >-->> that severe, and the lift has little or no bearing in the economy or >-->> gearing issues. >-->> >-->> It's expensive going to a different gear set. If you're having to >-->> repair the rear end on a v8 WJ because they didn't set it up >correctly, >-->> that's a partial incentive, but not enough reason in my mind... >-->> >-->> If you're interested in economy go with the 6, 4" of lift and >-->> bigger tires. You may be surprised at the results. My '87 XJ >-->> with the 6, 31's and stock 3.55's would do 21 mpg easliy on the >-->> freeway and around 17 in town! Taller gears are not a bad thing >-->> unless you're trying to do rock crawling, burnouts or stop light >-->> drag the ricers. >-->> >-->> I've had both the 6 and the 8, I chose a 6 this time, and am >-->> putting one in my Full size Jeep. >-->> >-->> FOR THE RECORD, I do NOT like the 3.7L V6. I don't care much >-->> for any V6, but the 3.7 is anemic and a poor replacement for >-->> the venerable I-6 4.0L. I think the 4.0L is the best engine >-->> ever put in a Jeep. The powertech I-6 put in the WJ's has >-->> significant refinements that make it even more simple and more >-->> efficient. >-->> >-->> So, my vote is the 6, full time four wheel drive, stock 3.73's >-->> (although some of the 6's might have 4.10's... isn't that an >-->> option if I remember correctly?), the 4" of lift and the slightly >-->> bigger tires... It won't be a rocket ship, but it will sail >-->> past fuel stops with a smile. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, scott blue wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Hey John, or anybody with knowledge on the subject, I have a >question >-->for >-->> you. If you were going to buy a WJ to lift 4 inches and put 32 inch >tires >-->on >-->> it, would you buy the V8 or the 6? The shop I have been talking to >tells >-->me >-->> that no matter which one I buy, I should put 4:11 gears in it. I don't >-->think >-->> that is a good idea. If I wanted to go for 0 to 60 in about 100 yards, >it >-->> would be good. I want to keep stock gas mileage as close as possible. >I >-->would >-->> also like to keep stock power if I can. what would you suggest? I do >plan >-->on >-->> putting a catback and an Airaid intake on it, so I know these will >help >-->with >-->> power. I'm confused on the gearing. I would like the V8, because I >thought >-->I >-->> might get away without gearing it, and I have been told that the stock >gas >-->> mileage is close between the 6 and the 8, about 2 mile to the gallon >-->> difference. Then you also have to think about the full time 4 wheel >drive >-->> verses the 2WD in the 6. what are your thoughts on this? One guy told >me >-->he >-->> never met a guy >-->> >--> that said he wished he had the 6, after he bought the 8. can you >-->help? >-->> >-->Scott >-->> >--> >-->> >--> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:38:06 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? A: The all new WK (which stands for whimpy krap!) From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? John, What's the deal with the new Grand? Is there a new ?J designation? Is it as different as the ads purport??? "Beats an Audi..."?! - - -Don ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:40:59 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? A: The politicians have nothing to do with it. Germany (Mercedes' Daddy company) calls all the shots at Der Chrysler now. From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Don Hansen wrote: >-->"K"?????? Another break with tradition!!!! >--> >-->The one I saw looked like a lot of other utes. NOT inspiring! I agree >that >-->the old Grand is MUCH better looking. >--> >-->Bloody Krauts! it ain't the krauts... it's the bureaucrats in detroit... john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:51:16 -0800 From: "Carl Norman" Subject: xj: Late Night YJ pull out Mark might have told you about this john but I just had to brag on the list about my xj. I closed at work friday night(left work at 1am saturday monring). Took a look at my cellphone and had 5 messages from my friend frank. I called him back and he had tried to take a tank trap trail up in the sultan basin, to show off to his friend who had never been off roading. Keep in mind this is only the second time my friend has taken his YJ, with 4inches of lift 33s a warn8k winch(without remote), off road. Also the YJ has no flex what so ever. When I got up to the trail It was not a pretty sight. The yj was point down the cliff with the passanger side rear tire about 2 feet in the air. The 258 wouldn't start because of the angle she was at so I had no help pulling it out. we only had my jeep's length + 10feet to work with so I ended up wrapping my bump strap around my tow hitch and then wrapping my chain through the strap then on to his bumper. It took 21/2 hours to pull the thing out and my homemade brush gaurd held up well considering I knocked over 3 or 4 small trees while yanking him out. The stock gearing in his axles with the big tires made his manual useless in 4low I had to litterally push the yj while he let the clutch out just so he could drive up small hills. No damage to my xj but the yj got a mudflap ripped off and his weak rear tire carrier/bumper was bowed out about an inch from the force of the pulls. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:15:10 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? It's interesting that you should say this...I've been puzzeling this for the last several weeks... I have found myself cursing the slow-poke drivers here on the eastcoast more frequently since I upgraded from stock P245 tires to Lt30 X 9.5's. Suspecting that my speedometer may be off due to taller tires, I clocked my speed using my GPS receiver (Magellan SportTrak). At 55mph, my GPS said I was doing almost 60mph (close enough to make the difference moot) This is about a 10% difference in speed. Again, close enough to do the math. Now, check my reasoning here... If the speedometer is off by 10%, then the odometer is also off by 10%. So, if I get 220 miles on a tank of gas based on my odometer, I'm really getting 242 miles on a tank of gas...(I average 17-18 gallons per fillup) (BTW, I have the 4liter on an LTD Wagoneer...cherokee style, not fullsize) Would this be correct thinking? This would make me feel a little better that I'm not getting 13mpg, but 15mpg isn't that much better.. Ed web/gadget guru - --- john wrote: > If you're interested in economy go with the 6, 4" of > lift and > bigger tires. You may be surprised at the results. > My '87 XJ > with the 6, 31's and stock 3.55's would do 21 mpg > easliy on the > freeway and around 17 in town! Taller gears are not > a bad thing > unless you're trying to do rock crawling, burnouts > or stop light > drag the ricers. ===== "I'm not an expert, but I *did* stay at a Holiday Inn Express once..." --Holiday Inn Commercial Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:33:39 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? Jimbo, You just gotta lay off that cheap cocaine! - -D. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: Cc: "full size jeep list" Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:36 PM Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? > A: I concurr on using 3.73. I even have 33" tires on my Comanche with 3.08 > that will gain top speed and power in 5th when I complete the swap (which > was planned for today, but I awoke with the mother of all nosebleeds!) > Raising the newer Jeeps is tougher unless you also swap out the speed > sensors or match the tire height/gear ratio. Otherwise you have major > driveability issues. I would sooner stick with the 4.0L 6, because if it's > not quite powerful enough, you can always stroke it to 4.6L (or bigger) > > > >--> > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: "john" > >-->To: > >-->Cc: "xj-list" > >-->Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:45 AM > >-->Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? > >--> > >--> > >-->> The WJ comes with 3.73's and overdrive. 3.73s are a pretty good > >-->> gear set for all around flexibility, and almost essential without an > >-->> overdrive. 4.10's are also a good set of gears and what I'm > >installing > >-->> in my '83 J10 stepside where I'm using a 4.0L with a full time > >(quadratrac > >-->> NP219) xfr case, along with the AW4 overdrive. > >-->> > >-->> I've had both WJ's with the 8 and the 6. I haven't had the six out > >-->> enough to see the highway mileage difference, but the 2mpg difference > >-->> is realistic with the 6 from what we've seen so far and what I've > >-->> heard on this list. > >-->> > >-->> The v8 is a sweet engine, revs quickly and smoothly and with amsoil > >-->> synthetics can get 20-21mpg on the freeway. > >-->> > >-->> I'm not sure what the OD of the stock tires is now, it's got to be > >-->> close to 30.5 or even 31" from the looks of it... going to 32" isn't > >-->> that severe, and the lift has little or no bearing in the economy or > >-->> gearing issues. > >-->> > >-->> It's expensive going to a different gear set. If you're having to > >-->> repair the rear end on a v8 WJ because they didn't set it up > >correctly, > >-->> that's a partial incentive, but not enough reason in my mind... > >-->> > >-->> If you're interested in economy go with the 6, 4" of lift and > >-->> bigger tires. You may be surprised at the results. My '87 XJ > >-->> with the 6, 31's and stock 3.55's would do 21 mpg easliy on the > >-->> freeway and around 17 in town! Taller gears are not a bad thing > >-->> unless you're trying to do rock crawling, burnouts or stop light > >-->> drag the ricers. > >-->> > >-->> I've had both the 6 and the 8, I chose a 6 this time, and am > >-->> putting one in my Full size Jeep. > >-->> > >-->> FOR THE RECORD, I do NOT like the 3.7L V6. I don't care much > >-->> for any V6, but the 3.7 is anemic and a poor replacement for > >-->> the venerable I-6 4.0L. I think the 4.0L is the best engine > >-->> ever put in a Jeep. The powertech I-6 put in the WJ's has > >-->> significant refinements that make it even more simple and more > >-->> efficient. > >-->> > >-->> So, my vote is the 6, full time four wheel drive, stock 3.73's > >-->> (although some of the 6's might have 4.10's... isn't that an > >-->> option if I remember correctly?), the 4" of lift and the slightly > >-->> bigger tires... It won't be a rocket ship, but it will sail > >-->> past fuel stops with a smile. > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, scott blue wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->Hey John, or anybody with knowledge on the subject, I have a > >question > >-->for > >-->> you. If you were going to buy a WJ to lift 4 inches and put 32 inch > >tires > >-->on > >-->> it, would you buy the V8 or the 6? The shop I have been talking to > >tells > >-->me > >-->> that no matter which one I buy, I should put 4:11 gears in it. I don't > >-->think > >-->> that is a good idea. If I wanted to go for 0 to 60 in about 100 yards, > >it > >-->> would be good. I want to keep stock gas mileage as close as possible. > >I > >-->would > >-->> also like to keep stock power if I can. what would you suggest? I do > >plan > >-->on > >-->> putting a catback and an Airaid intake on it, so I know these will > >help > >-->with > >-->> power. I'm confused on the gearing. I would like the V8, because I > >thought > >-->I > >-->> might get away without gearing it, and I have been told that the stock > >gas > >-->> mileage is close between the 6 and the 8, about 2 mile to the gallon > >-->> difference. Then you also have to think about the full time 4 wheel > >drive > >-->> verses the 2WD in the 6. what are your thoughts on this? One guy told > >me > >-->he > >-->> never met a guy > >-->> >--> that said he wished he had the 6, after he bought the 8. can you > >-->help? > >-->> >-->Scott > >-->> >--> > >-->> >--> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:46:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: The politicians have nothing to do with it. Germany (Mercedes' Daddy >-->company) calls all the shots at Der Chrysler now. then why wouldn't they make the new WK like the Benz instead of the crappy Dodges? john >--> >--> >-->From: john >-->Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: [WJ-Grand] which one? >--> >-->On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Don Hansen wrote: >--> >-->>-->"K"?????? Another break with tradition!!!! >-->>--> >-->>-->The one I saw looked like a lot of other utes. NOT inspiring! I agree >-->>that >-->>-->the old Grand is MUCH better looking. >-->>--> >-->>-->Bloody Krauts! >--> >-->it ain't the krauts... it's the bureaucrats in detroit... >--> >-->john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:00:03 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Late Night YJ pull outx carl, with friends like frank you'll have plenty of stories for the list. :) I'm glad he's got your cell phone number and not mine. :) After all, we TRIED to get him to buy an XJ, or even an FSJ... but no, he had to go and buy a bobtail... :) john On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Carl Norman wrote: >-->Mark might have told you about this john but I just had to brag on the list >-->about my xj. >--> >-->I closed at work friday night(left work at 1am saturday monring). Took a >-->look at my cellphone and had 5 messages from my friend frank. I called him >-->back and he had tried to take a tank trap trail up in the sultan basin, to >-->show off to his friend who had never been off roading. Keep in mind this is >-->only the second time my friend has taken his YJ, with 4inches of lift 33s a >-->warn8k winch(without remote), off road. Also the YJ has no flex what so >-->ever. >--> >-->When I got up to the trail It was not a pretty sight. The yj was point down >-->the cliff with the passanger side rear tire about 2 feet in the air. The >-->258 wouldn't start because of the angle she was at so I had no help pulling >-->it out. we only had my jeep's length + 10feet to work with so I ended up >-->wrapping my bump strap around my tow hitch and then wrapping my chain >-->through the strap then on to his bumper. It took 21/2 hours to pull the >-->thing out and my homemade brush gaurd held up well considering I knocked >-->over 3 or 4 small trees while yanking him out. The stock gearing in his >-->axles with the big tires made his manual useless in 4low I had to litterally >-->push the yj while he let the clutch out just so he could drive up small >-->hills. No damage to my xj but the yj got a mudflap ripped off and his weak >-->rear tire carrier/bumper was bowed out about an inch from the force of the >-->pulls. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:55:07 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Need Opinions On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Travis Bell wrote: >-->I've been looking for a toy to tinker with and make me a rock >-->crawler. So, today I was driving out of town and noticed a 1990 >-->Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4WD for Sale for $1500.00. Has 158,000 miles >-->on it. Some minor paint damage. Rusty muffler and tailpipe. >-->Interior looked worn but clean. >--> >-->Does this sound like a deal? Sorry, no one was home so I could not >-->see under the hood or under carriage. >--> >-->Thanks, >--> >-->Travis an XJ is a superb rig... if you're going to do serious wheeling with it you'll need to do a few mods, but do them as needed... my buddy dan has a seriously setup XJ: http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/DanStarc-89XJ/ALL-pix.html http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/DanStarcMoab2004/ALL.html I don't think you need to go quite to this extent... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/Trail/laborday98/john1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/Trail/laborday98/ http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/ I'd also like to welcome you to join the XJ list... details below. later, john ====================================================================================== To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe [ fsj | xj | diesel-benz ] end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. 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