From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Apr 17 00:22:42 2005 From: xj-digest xj-digest Sunday, April 17 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2053 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: Moonshining Techniques Help Americans Fight High Gas Prices xj: Re: fsj: Re: XJ tranny info xj: biodiesel vs. svo/wvo snohomish monster carport status xj: Re: XJ tranny info xj: Re: XJ tranny info xj: RE: Re: XJ tranny info xj: Re: Re: XJ tranny info xj: Re: Fw: gas prices XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:41:04 -0400 (EDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: Moonshining Techniques Help Americans Fight High Gas Prices On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Jim Blair wrote: :) john >--> http://www.flashnews.com/news/wfn1050414J12180.html Moonshining Techniques Help Americans Fight High Gas Prices LAKE ORION, Mich. (Wireless Flash) . Americans who want to fight back against high gas prices are taking a tip from moonshiners. That.s according to an unemployed Michigan ditch-digger who is using his time off to build personal home distilleries that let folks turn corn, potatoes or other starchy materials into ethanol . an alcohol that can be used to power cars. It.s basically the same process used to make moonshine, except you mix a little bit of gasoline in the final product so it will burn properly in an auto engine. Inventor Paul Cavalloro.s Micro Fuel Plant can produce four gallons of fuel per day from 20 gallons of liquified apples, corn or other raw materials. He says you can run the plant in your kitchen from a gas stove and the resulting fuel would cost you only $1.40 per gallon . plus it burns cleaner and more efficiently than gas. Cavalloro says he.s had 36 orders for the stills since he started selling them for $250 a pop a few days ago, mostly to people in high gas price hubs like California. ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:43:04 -0400 (EDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: fsj: Re: XJ tranny info the NP229 in the early XJ's may be 21 spline, not the 23 spline used in the SJs... I could be wrong, I know that the xfr cases like the NP207 and 231 used in the xj's up to '87 were 21 spline. john On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: The bellhousing won't fit and the V6 trans isn't strong enough for a V8. >-->The auto is a 904 (V8s barely get by with a 999) with Chev 60 degree pattern >-->(not same as V8 Chev or AMC. We just had this discussion on John's list) and >-->the std trans '84 to '86 would have been either light duty T5 or AX-5 (some >-->even got the pukeout 5 speed in '86 and I hear rumours of basic models with >-->an SR4!) >--> The tcase is the same, but the front yoke is different (easy swap from >-->the old one) A better deal would be to get a 2.8L (or similar) from an S10 >-->that has EFI and put it in the XJ. Front axle is indeed the D30, but those >-->CV joint axle shafts are weak. Rear most likely is D35 but some came with >-->D44 (which the XJ and MJ guys are searching for to upgrade their rigs up to >-->'91) >--> I have an Eagle 998 trans core if you want to do a rebuild (torque >-->converter kept engaging off idle so the valve body is likely clogged open) >-->which is more fuel efficient that the 727, plus it's lockup. (1st and 2nd >-->gear are lower than 727 for better takeoff power) Best part is that it is a >-->direct swap for the AMC 727. >--> >--> >--> From: Ray >-->Subject: XJ tranny info >--> >-->I have an '84 Jeep Cherokee XJ with one of those crappy 2.8 liter >-->carbureted V6 engines. I just crawled under it today and found out a >-->few things. >--> >-->The front diff says 30-7AF in big letters and 380 in small letters under >-->it. I'm assuming it's a Dana 30. It has CV joints at the wheels, and >-->on the t-case end of the front drive shaft. >--> >-->The T-case says 229 AM. Yippee! It's an NP-229 -- same thing as in my >-->'89 GW. Now I have a spare :-) >--> >-->The tranny has no data plate, so I don't know what it is. Since it >-->bolts right up to an NP-229, I'm thinking about using it as a >-->replacement for that inefficient TF 727 that seems to be going out on my >-->GW. I don't know what kind of tranny it is, though. >--> >-->Let's see... >--> >-->The starter is on the driver's side. >--> >-->The coolant lines run up the driver's side. >--> >-->There is some kind of a bracket bolted to the passenger side using one >-->of the bolts that attaches it to the engine. >--> >-->It has an aluminum case (with a piece broken out at the front so I can >-->see the gear teeth on the flywheel. bummer.) >--> >-->The oil pan is kind of rectangular, but the corner at the rear on the >-->passenger side is angled off. >--> >--> >-->Any clues? Where would they put the data plate if such a thing exists, >-->anyhow? >--> >--> >-->Ray Drouillard >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:06:16 -0400 (EDT) From: john Subject: xj: biodiesel vs. svo/wvo snohomish monster carport status On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Matt wrote: >-->My vote goes to Still and Bio Diesel. Once your done get working on >-->your diesel swap into that J-Truck :) >-->Have fun >-->Matt >-->> or do I setup a still and start brewing biodiesel??? tried to talk my wife into brewing it... she didn't say no yet... ;) So, I'm thinking SVO/WVO on the J10, easy enough to filter and heat with a pickup... planning on dumping the oil into a tank in the bed that will run a pump and filter the oil and then once filtered transfer it to the aux tank. :) easier than playing with chemicals. I'll just pull up to the resturaunt, pour the bucket of veggie oil into a special baffle/filter and into the tank... >-->> >-->> the '86 cherokee chief with the 2.5L / AT, - clogged cat, exhaust manifold >-->> issue, loose steering column, electrical problems, bad trans? start working on it this weekend... will use it until SuperDawg is done then sell it... cleaned up really nice... who knows I may keep it... if SuperDawg gets 20mpg and runs on WVO I'll probably sell my '91 300D if the wife won't drive it. >-->> the '92 cherokee sport with the 4.0L - bad egr, bad lockup/computer torque? >-->> (shudders at 40+...) (now off idle) found some loose vacuum lines last night... thinking it may in fact be the ignition coil as it's stuttering off idle now! if it were the lockup it wouldn't manifest itself in park. The egr could be an issue, but we'll see... >-->> the '79 300SD? - install the trunk/taillight... and sell or should >-->> I just sell the hulk and use the 3.0L TD???? :) trunk lid installed, minor tweaking left to fit the taillight... will have it for sale on craigslist hopefully by Saturday night! drove it down from the "upper lot" last night. Thanx OKIE-Benz Auto Parts in Claremore, OK for the fast shipment of affordable parts! :) >-->> of course the '83 jimmy 6.2L Diesel needs some AT attention >-->> and/or modification to run some of this veggie oil... pulling engine/trans/xfr case, hydraboost, leather seats, stereo, fuel tank, hitches and finding the remains a new home... cheap... any one interested in a good project 4x4 rig? RUST FREE body, solid frame, axles, tires... good glass... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:09:02 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Re: XJ tranny info A: The NP229J and NP229AM only came with 23 spline. Jeep 9XX and 727 trans all came with 23 spline except early '80 which had 21 spline and NP207. (they discovered quickly the Tcase wasn't strong enough) XJs also used NP228 in '86. the NP229 in the early XJ's may be 21 spline, not the 23 spline used in the SJs... I could be wrong, I know that the xfr cases like the NP207 and 231 used in the xj's up to '87 were 21 spline. john On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: The bellhousing won't fit and the V6 trans isn't strong enough for a >V8. >-->The auto is a 904 (V8s barely get by with a 999) with Chev 60 degree >pattern >-->(not same as V8 Chev or AMC. We just had this discussion on John's list) >and >-->the std trans '84 to '86 would have been either light duty T5 or AX-5 >(some >-->even got the pukeout 5 speed in '86 and I hear rumours of basic models >with >-->an SR4!) >--> The tcase is the same, but the front yoke is different (easy swap >from >-->the old one) A better deal would be to get a 2.8L (or similar) from an >S10 >-->that has EFI and put it in the XJ. Front axle is indeed the D30, but >those >-->CV joint axle shafts are weak. Rear most likely is D35 but some came >with >-->D44 (which the XJ and MJ guys are searching for to upgrade their rigs up >to >-->'91) >--> I have an Eagle 998 trans core if you want to do a rebuild (torque >-->converter kept engaging off idle so the valve body is likely clogged >open) >-->which is more fuel efficient that the 727, plus it's lockup. (1st and >2nd >-->gear are lower than 727 for better takeoff power) Best part is that it >is a >-->direct swap for the AMC 727. >--> >--> >--> From: Ray >-->Subject: XJ tranny info >--> >-->I have an '84 Jeep Cherokee XJ with one of those crappy 2.8 liter >-->carbureted V6 engines. I just crawled under it today and found out a >-->few things. >--> >-->The front diff says 30-7AF in big letters and 380 in small letters under >-->it. I'm assuming it's a Dana 30. It has CV joints at the wheels, and >-->on the t-case end of the front drive shaft. >--> >-->The T-case says 229 AM. Yippee! It's an NP-229 -- same thing as in my >-->'89 GW. Now I have a spare :-) >--> >-->The tranny has no data plate, so I don't know what it is. Since it >-->bolts right up to an NP-229, I'm thinking about using it as a >-->replacement for that inefficient TF 727 that seems to be going out on my >-->GW. I don't know what kind of tranny it is, though. >--> >-->Let's see... >--> >-->The starter is on the driver's side. >--> >-->The coolant lines run up the driver's side. >--> >-->There is some kind of a bracket bolted to the passenger side using one >-->of the bolts that attaches it to the engine. >--> >-->It has an aluminum case (with a piece broken out at the front so I can >-->see the gear teeth on the flywheel. bummer.) >--> >-->The oil pan is kind of rectangular, but the corner at the rear on the >-->passenger side is angled off. >--> >--> >-->Any clues? Where would they put the data plate if such a thing exists, >-->anyhow? >--> >--> >-->Ray Drouillard >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:36:24 -0400 (EDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: XJ tranny info I'll check my xfr case in my '86 xj... would be nice if that was a 228! john On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: The NP229J and NP229AM only came with 23 spline. Jeep 9XX and 727 trans >-->all came with 23 spline except early '80 which had 21 spline and NP207. >-->(they discovered quickly the Tcase wasn't strong enough) XJs also used NP228 >-->in '86. >--> >--> >--> >-->the NP229 in the early XJ's may be 21 spline, >-->not the 23 spline used in the SJs... I could be wrong, >-->I know that the xfr cases like the NP207 and 231 used >-->in the xj's up to '87 were 21 spline. >--> >-->john >--> >--> >-->On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >--> >-->>-->A: The bellhousing won't fit and the V6 trans isn't strong enough for a >-->>V8. >-->>-->The auto is a 904 (V8s barely get by with a 999) with Chev 60 degree >-->>pattern >-->>-->(not same as V8 Chev or AMC. We just had this discussion on John's list) >-->>and >-->>-->the std trans '84 to '86 would have been either light duty T5 or AX-5 >-->>(some >-->>-->even got the pukeout 5 speed in '86 and I hear rumours of basic models >-->>with >-->>-->an SR4!) >-->>--> The tcase is the same, but the front yoke is different (easy swap >-->>from >-->>-->the old one) A better deal would be to get a 2.8L (or similar) from an >-->>S10 >-->>-->that has EFI and put it in the XJ. Front axle is indeed the D30, but >-->>those >-->>-->CV joint axle shafts are weak. Rear most likely is D35 but some came >-->>with >-->>-->D44 (which the XJ and MJ guys are searching for to upgrade their rigs up >-->>to >-->>-->'91) >-->>--> I have an Eagle 998 trans core if you want to do a rebuild (torque >-->>-->converter kept engaging off idle so the valve body is likely clogged >-->>open) >-->>-->which is more fuel efficient that the 727, plus it's lockup. (1st and >-->>2nd >-->>-->gear are lower than 727 for better takeoff power) Best part is that it >-->>is a >-->>-->direct swap for the AMC 727. >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> From: Ray >-->>-->Subject: XJ tranny info >-->>--> >-->>-->I have an '84 Jeep Cherokee XJ with one of those crappy 2.8 liter >-->>-->carbureted V6 engines. I just crawled under it today and found out a >-->>-->few things. >-->>--> >-->>-->The front diff says 30-7AF in big letters and 380 in small letters under >-->>-->it. I'm assuming it's a Dana 30. It has CV joints at the wheels, and >-->>-->on the t-case end of the front drive shaft. >-->>--> >-->>-->The T-case says 229 AM. Yippee! It's an NP-229 -- same thing as in my >-->>-->'89 GW. Now I have a spare :-) >-->>--> >-->>-->The tranny has no data plate, so I don't know what it is. Since it >-->>-->bolts right up to an NP-229, I'm thinking about using it as a >-->>-->replacement for that inefficient TF 727 that seems to be going out on my >-->>-->GW. I don't know what kind of tranny it is, though. >-->>--> >-->>-->Let's see... >-->>--> >-->>-->The starter is on the driver's side. >-->>--> >-->>-->The coolant lines run up the driver's side. >-->>--> >-->>-->There is some kind of a bracket bolted to the passenger side using one >-->>-->of the bolts that attaches it to the engine. >-->>--> >-->>-->It has an aluminum case (with a piece broken out at the front so I can >-->>-->see the gear teeth on the flywheel. bummer.) >-->>--> >-->>-->The oil pan is kind of rectangular, but the corner at the rear on the >-->>-->passenger side is angled off. >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->Any clues? Where would they put the data plate if such a thing exists, >-->>-->anyhow? >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->Ray Drouillard >-->>--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:58:26 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: RE: Re: XJ tranny info A: The 4.0L motor came with AW4 auto which was 21 spline '87 to 08/90 then went to 23 spline with the HO motor. Same with the std trans (BA 10/5 and AX-15) behind the 4.0L. The 4 cyls used some T5s in the early years and AX-5 std trans with 21 spline till the end. The main thing is that the Jeep 904, 998, 999 and 727 are all 23 spline except a few early 1980 998s (only saw one in an Eagle) which were 21 spline (those actually came from a deal that IH backed out of when they quit making the small trucks with AMC 258). From: "Berkeley Johnston" Subject: RE: Re: XJ tranny info My '90 XJ had a 21-spline NP231. Someone insisted it would be 23-spline, but no. There seems to be a cut off after '90, perhaps '91 when the XJ switched to the 4.0 HO engine, but you'd need to pull the t-case and count to be sure. Berkeley '88 GW, '90 XJ - -----Original Message----- From: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com [mailto:FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:09 AM To: john Cc: xj-list; full size jeep list; 2; 1 Subject: [FSJ-List] Re: XJ tranny info A: The NP229J and NP229AM only came with 23 spline. Jeep 9XX and 727 trans all came with 23 spline except early '80 which had 21 spline and NP207. (they discovered quickly the Tcase wasn't strong enough) XJs also used NP228 in '86. the NP229 in the early XJ's may be 21 spline, not the 23 spline used in the SJs... I could be wrong, I know that the xfr cases like the NP207 and 231 used in the xj's up to '87 were 21 spline. john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:04:49 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Re: Re: XJ tranny info A: If you test fit and didn't actually run the D300, one of a few things. 1980 D300 could be 21 spline, or you can slide a 21 spline shaft into a 23 spline input gear or it was a 3 speed auto which is 23 spline. 23 spline didn't come along till 08/90 for the HO in 4.0Ls. It was actually made for it because Jeep engineers didn't think 21 spline would be strong enough for the extra HP. The other issue is AW4 output shaft sticks out too far for the FSJ NP series of tcases and requires a 7/8" spacer. Don't know about the D300. From: Subject: Re: Re: XJ tranny info It depends on the engine. 4 cyl. XJs used the 21 spline up into the 90s (and may have all the way through...not sure) while the 4.0s used 23 spline for, I believe, '88 and later. I know my '88 XJ with AW-4 (all original, not replacements), had 23 splines because I test-fitted a Dana 300 behind it once. Then again, like anything else, Jeep uses whatever they grab out of the part's bin that day...so anything could have happened. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 00:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: Fw: gas prices On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Dan Jacobs wrote: http://www.paukstis.us/photosshared/humor/gas.htm :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2053 *************************