From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jun 1 02:08:35 2005 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, June 1 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2104 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: solid motor mounts xj: Re: Re: [db] don't look if you are a bit squeamish ;-) Re: xj: 4L removal Re: RE: xj: Re: Wagoneer Video... Re: xj: Re: solid motor mounts xj: dang hard to find parts! Re: xj: dang hard to find parts! Re: xj: dang hard to find parts! xj: Re: dang hard to find parts! xj: administrivia: notes on using this list XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 14:49:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Storms Subject: Re: xj: solid motor mounts I bought my poly mounts from MORE - pretty darn solid! Aaron - -----Original Message----- From: barbierij-at-optonline.net Sent: May 31, 2005 11:32 AM To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: xj: solid motor mounts I am going outside on this beautiful day to spend another 5 hours underneath my cherokee. Hopefully less. I finally found the socket at Auto Zone about 30 miles away. I can't believe how incompetent some of these guys are. Well, most not some. Does anybody know where I can get a pair of solid motor mounts for my XJ? Gilpin County News PO Box 93 Black Hawk, CO 80422 303.582.0133 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:03:07 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Re: Re: [db] don't look if you are a bit squeamish ;-) A: I know what you mean! If I hadn't tripped across a deal on another 2.5L, I may have put the AMC 360 I have under the hood of the '84 XJ I picked up! I copied and adjusted that pic to try to see what Tcase (Probably NP203 or 206, but it could be a NP208C) On Mon, 30 May 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6154&item=4552440151&rd=1 >--> >-->bruuutal! >--> It looks pretty good to me... at least in concept... ;) (remember this sort of thing ALMOST happened here to a certain '77 300CD and an '83 GMC Jimmy with a 6.2L Diesel... instead the 6.2L idea ended up in my '83 J10. But wait, I still have the '83 Jimmy... ;) My '83 K15 is way wider than my 124 Benz, and it sure shows, look at how far the wheels stick out. You can't tell if they modified the front suspension or just welded a bunch of stuff to hold the benz up. However, I suppose this is a good use for a GAS Mercedes anyway. :) However, there are a number of weak spots in this design, besides the Chevy part: 1) 305 - some journalist refer to it as 3 oh why? 2) Turbo 350 - rather lightweight version of the TH400 3) Holley CARB??? yuck. 4) no title for the Benz, that could be an issue, must have come from NJ late at night maybe? ;) The driveline in this conversion is, shall we say, pathetic. There isn't a single component, except maybe the transfer case, which isn't mentioned, that is worthy of any 4x4. My '83 Jimmy popped a hub in the back yard moving my J10 trailer around. GM stuff is not exactly durable. The 3/4T GMC truck that got tagged by that TJ in a 20mph zone sure showed that to me. Anyway, if my '91 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel ever gets wrecked or vandalized or otherwise totalled and the motor is still good I would like to put it into an XJ. :) But if the motor were to go away in the 124 I don't think I'd put the body onto a 4x4... seats aren't comfortable enough and Rube Goldberg was part of the design team for the climate control, door locks, windows, etc. etc. ;) One of the reasons I usually don't read the want ads or wander around unsupervised in wrecking yards is that I get too many ideas, and there is so little time, so little space. :) Someone needs to come to my house and rescue the '79 300SD, the '86 Cherokee Chief and the '92 Cherokee Sport and maybe the '83 GMC Jimmy before something strange and unusual happens there... :) 6.2L into the '79 300SD, the 3.0L into the '92 XJ... then the 4.0L into the '83 Jimmy???? no, just can't make it work... ;) FWIW, Here's some of the details from the overpriced ebay ad: (thankfully. ;) if this was priced around $1,500 or so and on the west coast this thing might find it's way on top of the aforementioned '83 GMC Jimmy 6.2L Diesel chassis... ;) later, john 1977 Chevrolet : Blazer Chevrolet Item number: 4552440151 Vehicle Description Here's your chance to own a one of a kind "Monster Mercedes" that I bet not everyone has.I have for auction a 87 Mercedes 260E on a 77 Chevy blazer drive train.The body is in good shape with a few small ding's.The interior is in good shape tan in color,The seats are manual adjustment,electric windows ,sunroof, power locks . The rear seat is from a 400E so it is bucket type seats with a wood roll top arm rest .I have the air bag disconnected but it can be plugged back if you prefer.The engine is a 305, 8 cylinder with a Holley 650 carb .vac .mod. manual choke,Dynomax headers custom dual 2 1/2 "exaust with Thrush mufflers and chrome tips.All of the suspention is stock 77 chevy.It has new 31x10.5 Liberator AT radial tires with less than 50 miles on them.I have a title for the blazer but not the Mercedes.Due to the fact that it is a custom built vehicle the actual mileage may be more or less than stated.There is no warranty on this vehicle.but I would drive it any where with confidence.The four wheel drive works fine,the transmission is a turbo 350. automatic.I had it tagged on street rod tags,drove it it a few times a month ,I have turned many heads with this truck,lots of smiles and thumbs up from other drivers.People stop in my drive way to ask questions.Every one wants to know ,how the? what the? I have never seen anything that looks like that in my life! Here's your chance to own a one of a kind vehicle whether you think its a truck or a car ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:08:30 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: 4L removal A: I suggest you use and impact screwdriver to get them started. I just stripped the head on the one for my starter (and I have LOTS of experience getting bolts out!) and it's a good thing the motor is already out because I had to strip the flywheel and all off to get at the bolt. I ended up using visegrips and twisting the starter at the same time. Finally it let go of the starter housing (aluminum and steel corrosion combined is a bitch!) From: Scrambler1987-at-aol.com Subject: xj: 4L removal What you need is a E12 Torx Socket. The bolt you are fighting is a 3/8" external torx, 6pt head. Be careful or you will strip the head and have one HECK of a time getting it out!!! Then you will have to pull the engine with the transmission so you can drill out the buggered bolt.......The best thing is to get the correct socket and then replace the torx head bolt with a grade 8 cap screw bolt, 3/8 by 1 3/4 long. Good luck! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:18:09 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: RE: xj: Re: Wagoneer Video... A: You can go 2" with spacers on the ZJ, and 3" with springs (and nothing else) but higher than that requires long or adjustable arms, etc. I am looking at buying a pair of 4.0L powered ZJs ('93 and '96). The '93 was hit and is basically parts now. The '96 has a toasted 42RE trans. I would be pulling that trans and putting the AW4 from the '93 in. (that will give me the core I need to rebuild for my J4000 since the 727 swap has been put on hold because the guy that wanted the QT was a no show yesterday and today) I'm off to Sea-Tac trans to get my pilot bearing for the '84 Cherokee so I can finish the motor swap before the rains come back! From: john Subject: Re: RE: xj: Re: Wagoneer Video... on the oil pressure thing, check the inside of the oil filter, my '92 4.0L just did the same thing... collapsed cheap filter... pretty obvious. lifting the zj can be done with spacers pretty easily... after seeing the WK the ZJ is actually looking better to me. I've never been a fan of the ZJ's, but seeing where the jeep line is going I'm reconsidering... ;) I do like the WJ's though, they really have a nice look to them... of course the XJ is probably the best jeep ever built, especially with the 4.0L. john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:19:03 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: Re: solid motor mounts A: THe bombproof mounts will rattle your teeth plenty! From: XJGPN-at-aol.com Subject: xj: Re: solid motor mounts There probably aren't any... there is no reason to get them... just get the stiff poly ones... All the advantages of the solid mounts, none of the disadvantages. Not to nitpick, but I also have a camaro... 2002 was the last year for them. The spohn or Madman solid motormounts really aren't the greatest idea... I know of a fast car that ended up ripping out the side of his block as a result of using them... granted the car had well over 1K HP.. but still... we actually have better options for our jeeps. The stiff poly motormounts are great. I have them and I love them. They don't transmit nearly as much vibration as one would think (same holds true for solid motor mounts). They do give just enough cushion though to prevent cracking the block or the chronic bolt loosening that happens on trucks with solid motor mounts. Use the Poly "bombproof" motormounts... you won't be sorry. In a message dated 5/31/2005 12:59:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, barbierij-at-optonline.net writes: I have searched and searched but I cannot find any solid mounts. I would like solid mounts because we put them in my buddys 03 camaro ss and damn what a difference. Plus I like to feel that engine, but not in a sick way ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 13:27:54 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: dang hard to find parts! I spent a big chunk of yesterday looking for a pilot bearing and finally found one today. '84 Cherokee with 4 cyl and 5 speed takes a FC65446 pilot bearing and NO-ONE had one yesterday! Sea-Tac trans has it (under a different part number) but apparently it's an obsoleted item! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 17:25:34 -0400 (EDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: dang hard to find parts! I was not impressed with the 5 speed I had in my '85 XJ. john On Tue, 31 May 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >--> I spent a big chunk of yesterday looking for a pilot bearing and finally >-->found one today. '84 Cherokee with 4 cyl and 5 speed takes a FC65446 pilot >-->bearing and NO-ONE had one yesterday! Sea-Tac trans has it (under a >-->different part number) but apparently it's an obsoleted item! >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:14:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "ernest breakfield" Subject: Re: xj: dang hard to find parts! well, i can't say that should be too much of a surprise; after all, you are talking about looking for a part for a relatively unpopular engine/trans combo in a vehicle that was produced 2 decades ago, and on a Holiday, at that... ;-) cheers! e > I spent a big chunk of yesterday looking for a pilot bearing and finally > found one today. '84 Cherokee with 4 cyl and 5 speed takes a FC65446 pilot > bearing and NO-ONE had one yesterday! Sea-Tac trans has it (under a > different part number) but apparently it's an obsoleted item! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 17:06:12 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Re: dang hard to find parts! A: Because it seemed gutless? Or because it didn't last long? The original oil used in these wasn't good enough and lots selfdestructed in short order due to bad lubrication (ones that didn't die right away got a lot of internal wear beyond normal before the change was done to all the XJs to 75w/90. Some survived and some didn't. Mine has only 60,000 on the clock) Also, they used 3 different 5 speeds in the early years. AX-5 (mine), SR5 (similar but weaker. Also used on Toyota Corollas with 1.6L), and light duty T5 (equivalent to non-turbo 4 cyl Mustang trans. Also used in AMC Eagles with poor results. The Jeep engineers miscalculated the strength on that trans and the BA 10/5 used in the 4.0ls) Now, I'm trying to find the "flywheel to crank" bolt torque (my son borrowed my book and we can't find it anywhere) so I can finish assembling the new motor into the '84. I got a flywheel for the TBI motor from NAPA (last one in existance according to the computer. Someone returned it because they thought it was different from the carbed one, so I scored! It was cheaper for me than having mine turned!) I also discovered there is a second plug in the side of the oil pan (oil temp sensor maybe?) on all 3 of the 2.5s I have right now. That, and since mine has the external slave (YAY!) I did a quick inspection to see if the rear seal on the motor needed replacing (YUP! only 1 more step when doing the clutch) and I saw the pivot ball had fallen out of it's socket in the bellhousing! Luckily I found it in the grass where the motor was pulled, and I cleaned up another housing to put in, and JB welded the ball in place! I wish I could've scored the bellhousing from a '90ish Dodge Dakota with the AMC 2.5 engine. Then I could've put in an AX-15 from a later 4.0L XJ. I am still trying to decide whether to keep the NP207 or switch to something stronger (I probably won't own this XJ long unless my wife changes her mind about it. I'm swapping in the cat and near new muffler from my Comanche and putting a performance muffler in the Comanche for a little more top end power later) If I had the AX_15, I could go with NP208J (NP207 and NP231's bigger, stronger 23 spline non-slipyoke brother), NP229 (just sold it today to pay for more parts), NV242 (don't have a driveshaft though) or something else (it would take too much $$$ to use the BW QT. ) John wrote: I was not impressed with the 5 speed I had in my '85 XJ. john On Tue, 31 May 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >--> I spent a big chunk of yesterday looking for a pilot bearing and >finally >-->found one today. '84 Cherokee with 4 cyl and 5 speed takes a FC65446 >pilot >-->bearing and NO-ONE had one yesterday! Sea-Tac trans has it (under a >-->different part number) but apparently it's an obsoleted item! >--> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:05:00 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2104 *************************