From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jul 19 21:36:21 2005 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, July 20 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2136 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: 4.0L engine issues xj: Re: 4.0L engine issues Re: xj: 4.0L engine issues Re: xj: 4.0L engine issues RE: xj: 4.0L engine issues RE: xj: 4.0L engine issues xj: RE: Re: [db] Audi American Le Mans Re: xj: RE: Re: [db] Audi American Le Mans XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:08:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: 4.0L engine issues the saga of the '92 sport 4.0L continues... it's getting better, but it's not there yet. original symptoms were anything over 45mph would cause terribly rough running, almost undriveable... replaced: - all plugs - spark plug wires - cap / rotor - coil - all injectors - vacuum harness - throttle position sensor - map sensor The only things I haven't replaced are the dist'r coil pickup, the crank position sensor, the O2 sensor and the engine itself. No error codes are indicated at this point. I haven't run it back up to Schucks to have it tested after replacing the last round of parts. :) It has always run great at full throttle. But it wants to shudder when cruising at speed and a slight load is put on it. It's worse in OD with the TC locked up, but does it in Drive as well. It's also idling rough and the shudder/miss happens just off idle as well. The check engine light is off, but comes on if I disconnect the TPS. I couldn't find the relay assy for the maintenance required light, so I removed the bulb. The emissions testers look for the check engine light, which still behaves as desired. The things starts easily, idles without problems (a little rough at times), doesn't stall at all, and has plenty of power. I haven't done a compression test yet, but I'm not sure if that'll point anything out... except maybe a bad valve or something, but that should show up in the plugs, and the plugs told a different story... except for #6, which was oily, but I attributed that to the clogged vacuum harness/breather. It's driveable, but I wouldn't want to drive it very far this way... guess I'll take it to jim startups and see if he can figure it out... one good thing is it'll come with lots of spare parts. ;) Anyone in the area is welcome to drop by and test drive it and see if they can guess better than me... ;) (hey where's Alan Chung when you need him? :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:41:21 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Re: 4.0L engine issues They USED to check for the light. Now they plug in, and in the HO, ALL previous error codes come up and they can even say your rig is a gross polluter if certain old codes come up with OBDII. the saga of the '92 sport 4.0L continues... it's getting better, but it's not there yet. original symptoms were anything over 45mph would cause terribly rough running, almost undriveable... replaced: - all plugs - spark plug wires - cap / rotor - coil - all injectors - vacuum harness - throttle position sensor - map sensor The only things I haven't replaced are the dist'r coil pickup, the crank position sensor, the O2 sensor and the engine itself. No error codes are indicated at this point. I haven't run it back up to Schucks to have it tested after replacing the last round of parts. :) It has always run great at full throttle. But it wants to shudder when cruising at speed and a slight load is put on it. It's worse in OD with the TC locked up, but does it in Drive as well. It's also idling rough and the shudder/miss happens just off idle as well. The check engine light is off, but comes on if I disconnect the TPS. I couldn't find the relay assy for the maintenance required light, so I removed the bulb. The emissions testers look for the check engine light, which still behaves as desired. The things starts easily, idles without problems (a little rough at times), doesn't stall at all, and has plenty of power. I haven't done a compression test yet, but I'm not sure if that'll point anything out... except maybe a bad valve or something, but that should show up in the plugs, and the plugs told a different story... except for #6, which was oily, but I attributed that to the clogged vacuum harness/breather. It's driveable, but I wouldn't want to drive it very far this way... guess I'll take it to jim startups and see if he can figure it out... one good thing is it'll come with lots of spare parts. ;) Anyone in the area is welcome to drop by and test drive it and see if they can guess better than me... ;) (hey where's Alan Chung when you need him? :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:55:58 -0400 From: Subject: Re: xj: 4.0L engine issues What about your cat or muffler, could be back pressure. > > From: john > Date: 2005/07/19 Tue AM 02:08:04 EDT > To: full size jeep list , xj-list > CC: Jeepbuilder-at-comcast.net, Alan Chung , > ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net, Meister Mark C Amn 612 ACOMS/SCSSP > > Subject: xj: 4.0L engine issues > > the saga of the '92 sport 4.0L continues... > > it's getting better, but it's not there yet. > > original symptoms were anything over 45mph would cause terribly rough running, > almost undriveable... > > replaced: > - all plugs > - spark plug wires > - cap / rotor > - coil > - all injectors > - vacuum harness > - throttle position sensor > - map sensor > > The only things I haven't replaced are the dist'r coil pickup, the crank position > sensor, the O2 sensor and the engine itself. > > No error codes are indicated at this point. I haven't run it back up to > Schucks to have it tested after replacing the last round of parts. :) > > It has always run great at full throttle. But it wants to shudder when > cruising at speed and a slight load is put on it. It's worse in OD with > the TC locked up, but does it in Drive as well. > > It's also idling rough and the shudder/miss happens just off idle as well. > > The check engine light is off, but comes on if I disconnect the TPS. > > I couldn't find the relay assy for the maintenance required light, so > I removed the bulb. The emissions testers look for the check engine light, > which still behaves as desired. > > The things starts easily, idles without problems (a little rough at times), > doesn't stall at all, and has plenty of power. > > I haven't done a compression test yet, but I'm not sure if that'll point > anything out... except maybe a bad valve or something, but that should show > up in the plugs, and the plugs told a different story... except for #6, which > was oily, but I attributed that to the clogged vacuum harness/breather. > > It's driveable, but I wouldn't want to drive it very far this way... guess > I'll take it to jim startups and see if he can figure it out... one good thing > is it'll come with lots of spare parts. ;) > > Anyone in the area is welcome to drop by and test drive it and see if they > can guess better than me... ;) (hey where's Alan Chung when you need him? :) > > john > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:40:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: 4.0L engine issues On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 gzempich-at-cox.net wrote: >-->What about your cat or muffler, could be back pressure. the guy had a new cat and muffler put on it... but then again... However, it doesn't behave like a clogged converter, been there, done that... they are totally gutless and top speed drops.. :) john >--> >-->> >-->> From: john >-->> Date: 2005/07/19 Tue AM 02:08:04 EDT >-->> To: full size jeep list , xj-list >-->> CC: Jeepbuilder-at-comcast.net, Alan Chung , >-->> ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net, Meister Mark C Amn 612 ACOMS/SCSSP >-->> >-->> Subject: xj: 4.0L engine issues >-->> >-->> the saga of the '92 sport 4.0L continues... >-->> >-->> it's getting better, but it's not there yet. >-->> >-->> original symptoms were anything over 45mph would cause terribly rough running, >-->> almost undriveable... >-->> >-->> replaced: >-->> - all plugs >-->> - spark plug wires >-->> - cap / rotor >-->> - coil >-->> - all injectors >-->> - vacuum harness >-->> - throttle position sensor >-->> - map sensor >-->> >-->> The only things I haven't replaced are the dist'r coil pickup, the crank position >-->> sensor, the O2 sensor and the engine itself. >-->> >-->> No error codes are indicated at this point. I haven't run it back up to >-->> Schucks to have it tested after replacing the last round of parts. :) >-->> >-->> It has always run great at full throttle. But it wants to shudder when >-->> cruising at speed and a slight load is put on it. It's worse in OD with >-->> the TC locked up, but does it in Drive as well. >-->> >-->> It's also idling rough and the shudder/miss happens just off idle as well. >-->> >-->> The check engine light is off, but comes on if I disconnect the TPS. >-->> >-->> I couldn't find the relay assy for the maintenance required light, so >-->> I removed the bulb. The emissions testers look for the check engine light, >-->> which still behaves as desired. >-->> >-->> The things starts easily, idles without problems (a little rough at times), >-->> doesn't stall at all, and has plenty of power. >-->> >-->> I haven't done a compression test yet, but I'm not sure if that'll point >-->> anything out... except maybe a bad valve or something, but that should show >-->> up in the plugs, and the plugs told a different story... except for #6, which >-->> was oily, but I attributed that to the clogged vacuum harness/breather. >-->> >-->> It's driveable, but I wouldn't want to drive it very far this way... guess >-->> I'll take it to jim startups and see if he can figure it out... one good thing >-->> is it'll come with lots of spare parts. ;) >-->> >-->> Anyone in the area is welcome to drop by and test drive it and see if they >-->> can guess better than me... ;) (hey where's Alan Chung when you need him? :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:29:35 -0500 From: "Okiebinder" Subject: RE: xj: 4.0L engine issues John, Your making me think I might have a clogged cat. This is on a '87 4.0L. I changed my TPS several months ago which did help a little..... however the Jeep is still very sluggish esp. at speed like going down the highway at 50-60 and no real power when I give it gas. I put a muffler on a couple of years ago.. maybe I should take a look at the cat as well. hmmm.... I don't hear it rattle but it could be clogged. Does this sound right to you? David - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:41 AM To: xj-list Cc: full size jeep list; Jeepbuilder-at-comcast.net; Meister Mark C Amn 612 ACOMS/SCSSP; Alan Chung Subject: Re: xj: 4.0L engine issues On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 gzempich-at-cox.net wrote: >-->What about your cat or muffler, could be back pressure. the guy had a new cat and muffler put on it... but then again... However, it doesn't behave like a clogged converter, been there, done that... they are totally gutless and top speed drops.. :) john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:49:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: xj: 4.0L engine issues the other clue is it'll start running warmer than ususal as well... john On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Okiebinder wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Your making me think I might have a clogged cat. This is on a '87 4.0L. I >-->changed my TPS several months ago which did help a little..... however the >-->Jeep is still very sluggish esp. at speed like going down the highway at >-->50-60 and no real power when I give it gas. I put a muffler on a couple of >-->years ago.. maybe I should take a look at the cat as well. hmmm.... I >-->don't hear it rattle but it could be clogged. >--> >-->Does this sound right to you? >-->David >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:41 AM >-->To: xj-list >-->Cc: full size jeep list; Jeepbuilder-at-comcast.net; Meister Mark C Amn 612 >-->ACOMS/SCSSP; Alan Chung >-->Subject: Re: xj: 4.0L engine issues >--> >--> >-->On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 gzempich-at-cox.net wrote: >--> >-->>-->What about your cat or muffler, could be back pressure. >--> >-->the guy had a new cat and muffler put on it... but then again... >--> >-->However, it doesn't behave like a clogged converter, been there, done >-->that... >-->they are totally gutless and top speed drops.. :) >--> >-->john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:16:51 -0400 From: "Darren K. Page" Subject: xj: RE: Re: [db] Audi American Le Mans That looks like your home generator setup ;0) We had one at my old work, a John Deere that was half that size. It could power the whole building, but we ran only our server room on it. That thing looks like it could power a whole city block... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren K. Page Montreal, Qc dkpage at videotron.ca - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john meister Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 1:53 AM To: chuck goolsbee Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj list; xj Subject: xj: Re: [db] Audi American Le Mans chuck wrote: > Diesels have a long history in motor racing. I heard a rumor that chuck is planning on entering a more modern Cummins into the Cannonball next year... problem is he's having trouble fitting it into his Jetta. I've suggested a 126 series 300SD, but we're not sure we'll be able to find suitable motor mounts... And there might be a problem fitting both turbos in as well... hmmm... I wonder if a Full Size Jeep might be a better platform... check it out: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/chucks-toy/the-cummins.jpg http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/chucks-toy/chuck-n-cummins.jpg :) john chuck goolsbee wrote: > At 3:00 PM -0700 7/18/05, Kevin wrote: > >> (as to the previous diesel comment though, audi ran a v10 diesel in >> lemans, >> but bailed early due to clutch problems. it's supposed to be back this >> year, >> haven't heard one way or the other yet. it should have no problems >> dominating >> a four or six hour race over here, though, as the clutch lasted just a >> bit >> longer than that). > > > Diesels have a long history in motor racing. > > This car: > pg> > > ...apparently ran the Indy 500, without a pitstop. > > That photo was taken at the Amelia Island Concours in 2001. I'm not a > "car show" kind of guy, but the Amelia event is an astounding collection > of cars, presented very well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:33:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: RE: Re: [db] Audi American Le Mans On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Darren K. Page wrote: >-->That looks like your home generator setup ;0) :) I sold that one when I moved... >-->We had one at my old work, a John Deere that was half that size. It could >-->power the whole building, but we ran only our server room on it. That thing >-->looks like it could power a whole city block... I think you're right. Boeing had one that literally did. The city of Kent cut power and Boeing's generator kicked in and ran the whole block for almost a week before anyone noticed. :) Or so I've been told, myth or fact, I suppose I could check it out... ;) This one is a V16 Cummins... massive twin turbo, one mega watt output... backup power for the digital forest... :) john >--> >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->Darren K. Page >-->Montreal, Qc >-->dkpage at videotron.ca >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john >-->meister >-->Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 1:53 AM >-->To: chuck goolsbee >-->Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj list; xj >-->Subject: xj: Re: [db] Audi American Le Mans >--> >--> >-->chuck wrote: >--> > Diesels have a long history in motor racing. >--> >--> >-->I heard a rumor that chuck is planning on entering a more modern Cummins >-->into the Cannonball next year... problem is he's having trouble fitting it >-->into his Jetta. I've suggested a 126 series 300SD, but we're not sure we'll >-->be able to find suitable motor mounts... And there might be a problem >-->fitting both turbos in as well... hmmm... I wonder if a Full Size Jeep >-->might be a better platform... >--> >--> check it out: >--> http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/chucks-toy/the-cummins.jpg >--> http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/chucks-toy/chuck-n-cummins.jpg >--> >--> >-->:) >--> >-->john >--> >-->chuck goolsbee wrote: >-->> At 3:00 PM -0700 7/18/05, Kevin wrote: >-->> >-->>> (as to the previous diesel comment though, audi ran a v10 diesel in >-->>> lemans, >-->>> but bailed early due to clutch problems. it's supposed to be back this >-->>> year, >-->>> haven't heard one way or the other yet. it should have no problems >-->>> dominating >-->>> a four or six hour race over here, though, as the clutch lasted just a >-->>> bit >-->>> longer than that). >-->> >-->> >-->> Diesels have a long history in motor racing. >-->> >-->> This car: >-->> -->> pg> >-->> >-->> ...apparently ran the Indy 500, without a pitstop. >-->> >-->> That photo was taken at the Amelia Island Concours in 2001. I'm not a >-->> "car show" kind of guy, but the Amelia event is an astounding collection >-->> of cars, presented very well. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2136 *************************