From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Aug 5 18:39:56 2005 From: xj-digest xj-digest Saturday, August 6 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2145 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: [db] Jeeps... xj: the Cherokee has left the shop... xj: Re: the Cherokee has left the shop... xj: Re: Re: [db] Jeeps... Re: xj: terrible time (the real one) plus another question xj: Re: the Cherokee has left the shop... Re: xj: terrible time (the real one) plus another question xj: heading to the airport... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 17:30:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] Jeeps... On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati wrote: >-->I have by accident got my grubby paws on a catalogue of bits and bobs for >-->Jeeps (4WheelDrive Hardware), and had a good look through. that's a nice catalog... :) >-->One thought: >-->Given the number of things that are offered to improve the Jeep's appearance, >-->comfort, engine power, gear shifting, ground clearance, road holding, >-->carrying capacity, corrosion resistance, braking ability, engine cooling, >-->lighting system, etc. one cannot help thinking that the Jeep, as produced, >-->must be a real P.O.S. ! >-->No ? >-->Ron, running for cover on the banks of the Paraguay River. :) In stock form they are significantly more reliable than any british or french automobile I've ever seen or owned. A stock Jeep is far more capable off road than many modified import or domestic 4x4s. That Jeeps are often subjected to incredible abuse and neglect is one of the reasons that so many modifications are made. Some of the AMC model Jeeps suffered greatly because of the alliance with Renault in the 80's, quality was terrible and some of the Jeeps even have french parts which makes them expensive to repair and somewhat unreliable. One of the things that we often do is upgrade them to get around these design flaws and limitations. When Chrysler took over in the later 80's things did improve a bit, but they messed things up a bit as well. Now we've got this Daimler-Chrysler thing going on where they are making the Jeeps like Mercedes, but only doing the bad things like center controlled windows, terrible seats and so on. ;) Of course they've lost sight of what a Jeep really is as evidenced by their termination of the XJ, the abomination of cancelling the WJ for the WK (not even a J designator, how rude) and going with independent front setup like the KJ. (yeah, sure I know that in 1963 Jeep built an independent front suspension Wagoneer, but that didn't stay in production very long even then. ;) One thing is usually a given, a Jeep will get you there and back, sure you may have to hold it together with duct tape, bailing wire and chewing gum after going over those rocks and all, but I've never been stranded. Most of the quality issues in the Jeeps relate to accessories as well. Of course I do loathe the AMC V8, it is an oil leaking boat anchor that runs hot, is inefficient and quite out of date. That's why my large FSJ had a 258 I-6, which was better, but still not all that great. My XJs and WJs have had superb engines, the 4.0L engine is outstanding providing life comparable to a Mercedes Diesel. It's far from perfect and often suffers from blowby and a leaky rear main seal, but despite those "AMC" issues will go for almost 300,000 miles without a rebuild! I have had far more trouble with accessories and climate controls on any of my mercedes than I've ever had in a Jeep. Jeep engines are incredibly easy to work on, far easier than any of the Mercedes Diesels. Parts are plentiful, cheap and just about anyone can fix them with basic handtools. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 18:25:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: the Cherokee has left the shop... the japanese cherokee is no longer at the Off-Road Center in Tokyo. I may still go over and visit this shop... have to work on some server logistics yet this morning... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 19:30:34 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Re: the Cherokee has left the shop... Any Bejing Jeeps with diesel over there for you to look at? the japanese cherokee is no longer at the Off-Road Center in Tokyo. I may still go over and visit this shop... have to work on some server logistics yet this morning... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 20:03:45 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Re: Re: [db] Jeeps... A: The reason for the "upgrades" is that many people tend to drive the Jeeps well beyond their design spec abilities and the add-ons are to make them different from all the other little boxes out there. Some parts were borderline for strength and people found those problems as they went. I've found them to be more reliable than 95% of the other vehicles out there (European, Japanese or American) and that's after 30 years of pulling wrench on just about everything under the sun. As for the IFS, I'd like to find an early FSJ with it and swap in the Ford D44 high pinion TTB front axle I have with the new type ball style U joints that take higher angles than the old ones. (they are supposed to be super secret, but I know of probably 50 people that know already) Drawback is they are $$$. The 258s are okay, but the change in tolerances used in the factory building the 4.0l (same ones I used for my 4.6L stroker buildup) really brought them up a couple notches. Coupled with modern lubricants, it all gets better as we go. When you tweak a design for almost 50 years, you keep getting closer to perfect! The blowby can be dealt with by adding a return tube to the oil pan and using a 3 line breather (I have one from a 4 cyl carbed XJ) so the oil particulates will hit the mesh and cool enough to drop back into the oil pan. I'm not a big fan of the AMC 360s, but I've had great luck with the 304 and 401 (reason I chose a 304 for my J4000 was partially price and the rest was fuel economy. I can't wait to see what it will get with the lockup 727 that's going in along with a Mopar RH drop NP208. The tired TH400/QT with 16% O/D averaged 15 to 18 mpg, even when towing.) On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati wrote: >-->I have by accident got my grubby paws on a catalogue of bits and bobs >for >-->Jeeps (4WheelDrive Hardware), and had a good look through. that's a nice catalog... :) >-->One thought: >-->Given the number of things that are offered to improve the Jeep's >appearance, >-->comfort, engine power, gear shifting, ground clearance, road holding, >-->carrying capacity, corrosion resistance, braking ability, engine >cooling, >-->lighting system, etc. one cannot help thinking that the Jeep, as >produced, >-->must be a real P.O.S. ! >-->No ? >-->Ron, running for cover on the banks of the Paraguay River. :) In stock form they are significantly more reliable than any british or french automobile I've ever seen or owned. A stock Jeep is far more capable off road than many modified import or domestic 4x4s. That Jeeps are often subjected to incredible abuse and neglect is one of the reasons that so many modifications are made. Some of the AMC model Jeeps suffered greatly because of the alliance with Renault in the 80's, quality was terrible and some of the Jeeps even have french parts which makes them expensive to repair and somewhat unreliable. One of the things that we often do is upgrade them to get around these design flaws and limitations. When Chrysler took over in the later 80's things did improve a bit, but they messed things up a bit as well. Now we've got this Daimler-Chrysler thing going on where they are making the Jeeps like Mercedes, but only doing the bad things like center controlled windows, terrible seats and so on. ;) Of course they've lost sight of what a Jeep really is as evidenced by their termination of the XJ, the abomination of cancelling the WJ for the WK (not even a J designator, how rude) and going with independent front setup like the KJ. (yeah, sure I know that in 1963 Jeep built an independent front suspension Wagoneer, but that didn't stay in production very long even then. ;) One thing is usually a given, a Jeep will get you there and back, sure you may have to hold it together with duct tape, bailing wire and chewing gum after going over those rocks and all, but I've never been stranded. Most of the quality issues in the Jeeps relate to accessories as well. Of course I do loathe the AMC V8, it is an oil leaking boat anchor that runs hot, is inefficient and quite out of date. That's why my large FSJ had a 258 I-6, which was better, but still not all that great. My XJs and WJs have had superb engines, the 4.0L engine is outstanding providing life comparable to a Mercedes Diesel. It's far from perfect and often suffers from blowby and a leaky rear main seal, but despite those "AMC" issues will go for almost 300,000 miles without a rebuild! I have had far more trouble with accessories and climate controls on any of my mercedes than I've ever had in a Jeep. Jeep engines are incredibly easy to work on, far easier than any of the Mercedes Diesels. Parts are plentiful, cheap and just about anyone can fix them with basic handtools. john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 20:20:27 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: terrible time (the real one) plus another question A: The XJs ran only 4 rear axles from start to finish. First was the D35 (made by Dana to AMCs Model 15 specs, but with 1 piece axle shafts), then the heavy duty versions got a Model 20 (big round cover that looks like it's hiding a basketball), then about '87 the Model 20 went away (along with AMC) and heavy duty versions got the Dana 44. When the 4.0L HO came out in 08/90, the Dodge 8 1/4 came out as medium duty. Dana 35 became a C-clip axle about the same time (and weaker. Just sliding sideways while doing a burnout can tear the tiny bit of metal loose holding it in!) I would use the whole lines and all if you are using the newer EFI. From: "Jesse Barbieri" Subject: Re: xj: terrible time (the real one) plus another question I am not sure if it had a dana. I took the pinion yoke with the driveshaft, and it was way too big to fit in my dana44. It very well could have been a 2dr, but I am almost certain it was a 4dr. I can always check when I go back there. I still need a couple items from the '99 xj that I took the engine from to put in my '89 xj. By the way, the '99 4.0 only has one fuel line to the fuel rail and my '89 4.0 had two lines...one sending and one returning. I have read that the '99 has the fuel regulator in the fuel pump assembly. So my question is should I take the fuel sending unit from the '99 xj or should I take the entire tank? The '89 xj is coming along well. I will put a writeup (I mean atleast the progress that I have made so far) on my site when I get a chance. I have a little thing about my '94 acura integra if anybody is interested. It is http://jessebarbieri.tripod.com but like any other site I have tried to make it doesn't have any pretty backgrounds. Jesse. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: the Cherokee has left the shop... Actually, from what I've been told by folks that live and work here, that the Japanese are not big on Diesels at all. Only trucks seem to have them. I was talking to a couple of the Japanese guests and they estimated that less than 1% of the passenger vehicles had Diesels. They're worse than NYC or the CA! ;) john On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->Any Bejing Jeeps with diesel over there for you to look at? >--> >--> >-->the japanese cherokee is no longer at the Off-Road Center in Tokyo. >-->I may still go over and visit this shop... have to work on >-->some server logistics yet this morning... :) >--> >-->john >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:25:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: terrible time (the real one) plus another question I've never seen an XJ with a Model 20 axle... guess it's possible, anything is possible with Jeeps... :) john On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: The XJs ran only 4 rear axles from start to finish. First was the D35 >-->(made by Dana to AMCs Model 15 specs, but with 1 piece axle shafts), then >-->the heavy duty versions got a Model 20 (big round cover that looks like it's >-->hiding a basketball), then about '87 the Model 20 went away (along with AMC) >-->and heavy duty versions got the Dana 44. When the 4.0L HO came out in 08/90, >-->the Dodge 8 1/4 came out as medium duty. Dana 35 became a C-clip axle about >-->the same time (and weaker. Just sliding sideways while doing a burnout can >-->tear the tiny bit of metal loose holding it in!) >--> I would use the whole lines and all if you are using the newer EFI. >--> >--> >-->From: "Jesse Barbieri" >-->Subject: Re: xj: terrible time (the real one) plus another question >--> >-->I am not sure if it had a dana. I took the pinion yoke with the driveshaft, >-->and it was way too big to fit in my dana44. It very well could have been a >-->2dr, but I am almost certain it was a 4dr. I can always check when I go >-->back there. I still need a couple items from the '99 xj that I took the >-->engine from to put in my '89 xj. By the way, the '99 4.0 only has one fuel >-->line to the fuel rail and my '89 4.0 had two lines...one sending and one >-->returning. I have read that the '99 has the fuel regulator in the fuel pump >-->assembly. So my question is should I take the fuel sending unit from the >-->'99 xj or should I take the entire tank? >--> >-->The '89 xj is coming along well. I will put a writeup (I mean atleast the >-->progress that I have made so far) on my site when I get a chance. I have a >-->little thing about my '94 acura integra if anybody is interested. It is >-->http://jessebarbieri.tripod.com but like any other site I have tried to >-->make it doesn't have any pretty backgrounds. >--> >-->Jesse. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 18:35:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: heading to the airport... pictures of the adventure are on line at: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/Tokyo-2005 john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2145 *************************