From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 3 08:41:46 2006 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, February 3 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2272 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: 42RE xj: more Diesel dreams... xj: Re: [db] more Diesel dreams... Re: xj: 42RE Re: xj: 42RE xj: Re: [db] Re: Craigslist.com xj: throttle body cleaning xj: steering wheel switches RE: fsj: Re: xj: 42RE Re: xj: 42 RE core Re: xj: 42RE xj: NP219 with a manual? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 07:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: 42RE On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Allen Zylstra wrote: >-->Well it seems you know these. I may need some tips when it come to >-->rebuild time. Mine is a 96 model. I think it currently needs a band >-->adjustment. They shifts are delayed when I get on it. Towing 4000lbs >-->doesn't help either. Any tips on improving the shifting. I doesn't slip >-->just takes it time going from 1-2 and 2-3 I think. Mostly 1-2. Allen I wonder if they did something to these transmissions differently in the WJs, I've not heard of anyone having troubles with them. How many miles did the ZJs have when trouble started? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:02:03 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: more Diesel dreams... talked with a guy in the bay area about a Turbo Diesel XJ on craigslist... it's got the 5 speed... won't work for me... that and a 21 year old XJ would need more attention than I want to give it. :) When I suggested it to my wife I got a very clear answer. :) besides, I'm thoroughly enjoying my '91 300D... (the fuel gauge has moved, but it's real slow... ;) around 320 miles on the trip odo now... ) But still, it's got me thinking again... a Diesel XJ would be nice, especially as a snow/trail vehicle... and I just happen to have a "spare" XJ... that white '92 sport with a bad engine... a friend is putting one of my used 4.0Ls in it now... if that engine turns out to work, it's gone, if not... hmmmm.... ...Atlas has a divorced mount xfr case... and I can get a 3.0L TD for less than $1,500... wonder what the Atlas case sells for... anyone know? ...thinking, not acting at this point... keep the popcorn buttered... ;) I know, I know a Diesel J10 is in my future... has been for over 5 years now... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:59:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] more Diesel dreams... well that busts my budget... ;) that's more than I pay for most of my Jeeps... :) thanx JB. john On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, J.B. Hebert wrote: > -->The cheapest Atlas cases start at $2,195. If you want to add any options, > -->like the 32 splice front output, it goes up from there. > --> > -->J.B. > --> > -->At 02:02 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote: > --> > -->> talked with a guy in the bay area about a Turbo Diesel > -->> XJ on craigslist... it's got the 5 speed... won't work for me... that > -->> and a > -->> 21 year old XJ would need more attention than I want to give it. :) > -->> When I suggested it to my wife I got a very clear answer. :) > -->> > -->> besides, I'm thoroughly enjoying my '91 300D... (the fuel gauge has > -->> moved, but it's real slow... ;) around 320 miles on the trip odo now... > -->> ) > -->> > -->> But still, it's got me thinking again... a Diesel XJ would be nice, > -->> especially as a snow/trail vehicle... and I just happen to have a > -->> "spare" XJ... that white '92 sport with a bad engine... a friend > -->> is putting one of my used 4.0Ls in it now... if that engine turns out > -->> to work, it's gone, if not... hmmmm.... > -->> > -->> ...Atlas has a divorced mount xfr case... and I can get a 3.0L TD > -->> for less than $1,500... wonder what the Atlas case sells for... > -->> anyone know? > -->> > -->> ...thinking, not acting at this point... keep the popcorn buttered... ;) > -->> > -->> I know, I know a Diesel J10 is in my future... has been for over 5 > -->> years > -->> now... ;) > -->> > -->> john > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> -- > -->> No virus found in this incoming message. > -->> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > -->> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 > --> > --> > -->-- > -->No virus found in this outgoing message. > -->Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > -->Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:47:51 -0600 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: Re: xj: 42RE I don't know. It may be a possible upgrade. Mine has 147K on it, but I have seen/read about some with less than 100K getting replaced. I think some were done that only needed adjustments are sensors replaced. Jim mentioned a change to all electric after 97. Need an experts opinion. Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: 42RE Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 07:37:58 -0800 (PST) >On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Allen Zylstra wrote: > >-->Well it seems you know these. I may need some tips when it come to > >-->rebuild time. Mine is a 96 model. I think it currently needs a band > >-->adjustment. They shifts are delayed when I get on it. Towing 4000lbs > >-->doesn't help either. Any tips on improving the shifting. I doesn't slip > >-->just takes it time going from 1-2 and 2-3 I think. Mostly 1-2. Allen > >I wonder if they did something to these transmissions differently in the >WJs, I've not heard of anyone having troubles with them. How many miles >did the ZJs have when trouble started? > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:34:37 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: 42RE On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Allen Zylstra wrote: >-->I don't know. It may be a possible upgrade. Mine has 147K on it, but I >-->have seen/read about some with less than 100K getting replaced. I think >-->some were done that only needed adjustments are sensors replaced. Jim >-->mentioned a change to all electric after 97. Need an experts opinion. I'm not sure Jim has a complete understanding or experience with these models. The documentation I have, factory WJ manuals, says that the 42RE has an electric lockup torque converter, while the 45RFE is full electronic. This is from a 1999-200x WJ manual, so I can say quite clearly that the 42RE is not all electric, and it's after '97. The pdf is still in the temp space so read it yourself... Jim is usually pretty dang close on most issues. But having worked with him on a number of projects here he's been off by just a little bit more than once. It's not really his fault, it's Jeep/Chrysler/AMC... they make subtle changes to parts that look alike. Jim and I have wandered around swap meets picking up carb parts and found that they did not interchange as we had hoped. We've tried to intermingle XJ and Eagle parts, again we were stymied. I suspect that the same kind of thing might happen with transmissions, at least based on what I'm hearing, reading and imagine. He's close... but these ain't hand grenades, atombombs or horseshoes, so close doesn't work. :) Besides, most of his experience is with older models, as is most of ours. The documentation I have indicates some major differences to what Jim is saying. Of course this documentation doesn't come out and say that it's a 904/999/727 with this or that, or if those models even were carried over. A transmission shop or dealership might have useful info. I've been thinking about calling a transmission shop to get more info. Will also help me make a decision on whether to keep my 4.0 or 4.7L WJ. I know that when the WJ came out Jeep claimed it was all new. I know many folks with Zjs that had trans trouble, but no one with a WJ. I'm thinking they are not the same transmission, but unless I get my hands on a factory manual for a ZJ, or talk to a paid expert with direct and recent experience, I'll remain skeptical. >-->Allen >--> >--> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> From: john >--> Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net >--> To: xj-at-digest.net >--> Subject: Re: xj: 42RE >--> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 07:37:58 -0800 (PST) >--> >On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Allen Zylstra wrote: >--> > >-->Well it seems you know these. I may need some tips when it >--> come to >--> > >-->rebuild time. Mine is a 96 model. I think it currently needs >--> a band >--> > >-->adjustment. They shifts are delayed when I get on it. Towing >--> 4000lbs >--> > >-->doesn't help either. Any tips on improving the shifting. I >--> doesn't slip >--> > >-->just takes it time going from 1-2 and 2-3 I think. Mostly 1-2. >--> Allen >--> > >--> >I wonder if they did something to these transmissions differently in >--> the >--> >WJs, I've not heard of anyone having troubles with them. How many >--> miles >--> >did the ZJs have when trouble started? >--> > >--> >john >--> > ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 21:52:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] Re: Craigslist.com > On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Noel Higa wrote: > Try this: http://www.crxsearch.com/forums/ > Noel thanx. this looks promising, will try it later, going to share it with the lists... a search tool for craigslist! I'm not so sure I should load it on my system though... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 21:55:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: throttle body cleaning found instructions on http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/tbody.htm Really like this wj jeeps site... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 22:23:34 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: steering wheel switches was wondering if later model XJs couldn't add the switches on the steering wheel, looks possible: http://www.wjjeeps.com/steering_sw.htm john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 00:28:14 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: 42RE I have a valve body from a '97 42RE that I took apart and studied. (trans was smashed beyond rebuilding unfortunately) The lockup is electrically controlled, but so are the upshifts. Prior to '93 Mopar had the same trans (to fit their engines, not Jeeps) but the whole thing was hydraulic controlled, including lockup. (Sea-Tac has a valvebody waiting for me once I find a 42RE to rewind) The drawback to a 42RE or any 9XX based trans is the weak input shaft and converter neck. I have twisted off the shaft right at the front drum on a 999 (with a Mopar 360 in front of it) and I now know that when you get a certain vibration on takeoff, the converter or input shaft is about to take a dump! I killed several of those converters on my Eagle. (Elmo had the 999 and a HD replacement converter with brazed on forged steel neck. Converter alone set me back $200 but the better fuel economy and power over the 727 was worth it.) BTW, those carbs we got were messed up due to IH stuff being thrown into the mix! (that's why one had a reverse throttle!) As for mixing and matching other parts, I have learned to test fit before saying yay or nay! (and going direct to the source helps too! I found out that NP219 had 2 different input depths. One for std and one for auto!) build your truck right the first time! On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Allen Zylstra wrote: >-->I don't know. It may be a possible upgrade. Mine has 147K on it, but >I >-->have seen/read about some with less than 100K getting replaced. I think >-->some were done that only needed adjustments are sensors replaced. Jim >-->mentioned a change to all electric after 97. Need an experts opinion. I'm not sure Jim has a complete understanding or experience with these models. The documentation I have, factory WJ manuals, says that the 42RE has an electric lockup torque converter, while the 45RFE is full electronic. This is from a 1999-200x WJ manual, so I can say quite clearly that the 42RE is not all electric, and it's after '97. The pdf is still in the temp space so read it yourself... Jim is usually pretty dang close on most issues. But having worked with him on a number of projects here he's been off by just a little bit more than once. It's not really his fault, it's Jeep/Chrysler/AMC... they make subtle changes to parts that look alike. Jim and I have wandered around swap meets picking up carb parts and found that they did not interchange as we had hoped. We've tried to intermingle XJ and Eagle parts, again we were stymied. I suspect that the same kind of thing might happen with transmissions, at least based on what I'm hearing, reading and imagine. He's close... but these ain't hand grenades, atombombs or horseshoes, so close doesn't work. :) Besides, most of his experience is with older models, as is most of ours. The documentation I have indicates some major differences to what Jim is saying. Of course this documentation doesn't come out and say that it's a 904/999/727 with this or that, or if those models even were carried over. A transmission shop or dealership might have useful info. I've been thinking about calling a transmission shop to get more info. Will also help me make a decision on whether to keep my 4.0 or 4.7L WJ. I know that when the WJ came out Jeep claimed it was all new. I know many folks with Zjs that had trans trouble, but no one with a WJ. I'm thinking they are not the same transmission, but unless I get my hands on a factory manual for a ZJ, or talk to a paid expert with direct and recent experience, I'll remain skeptical. _________________________________________________________________ Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 00:56:12 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: 42 RE core Too bad I'm on the left coast! It would cost more to ship than buy one here. (I've been thinking about getting a ZJ with bad 42RE trans and doing an AW4 swap since I have trans and harness from a '92 1/2 ZJ) build your truck right the first time! From: KLuebs-at-washgas.com Subject: xj: 42 RE core Jim, I've got 2 core 42 RE trannies, one '94, one form a '97. I'm in Virginia... - - --Kurt http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 00:58:33 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: 42RE A: Well that slow shift IS slippage happening. A bottle of Lucas trans conditioner seems to help a lot. I used to put in B&M shift improver (aka Trick Shift) then found out about STP engine oil in them. Servicing and good fluid helps a lot with these too. From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: Re: xj: 42RE Well it seems you know these. I may need some tips when it come to rebuild time. Mine is a 96 model. I think it currently needs a band adjustment. They shifts are delayed when I get on it. Towing 4000lbs doesn't help either. Any tips on improving the shifting. I doesn't slip just takes it time going from 1-2 and 2-3 I think. Mostly 1-2. Allen _________________________________________________________________ Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: NP219 with a manual? On Fri, 3 Feb 2006, Jim Blair wrote: > -->direct to the source helps too! I found out that NP219 had 2 different input > -->depths. One for std and one for auto!) I've never heard of an NP219 being attached to a manual... I haven't researched it in depth, but from the factory manuals it looks like Jeep only offered the Quadratrac with automatics (the NP219 is Quadratrac, used from '80-'82) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2272 *************************