From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Apr 26 12:14:28 2006 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, April 26 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2320 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: the '91 GW, it's alive... xj: correction: the '91 GW, it's alive... xj: RE: fsj: the '91 GW, it's alive... xj: RE: correction: the '91 GW, it's alive... xj: RE: fsj: the '91 GW, it's alive... Re: xj: RE: correction: the '91 GW, it's alive... xj: A shimmy or a shake xj: RE: A shimmy or a shake Re: xj: RE: A shimmy or a shake RE: xj: RE: A shimmy or a shake Re: xj: A shimmy or a shake XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:57:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: the '91 GW, it's alive... I forgot how much I hate carb's. ;) They really stink. I had to take my shirt off after standing near this thing. :) Got it started, drove it around, brakes are definetly not happy about the mud situation. Still can't open the ds back door. Can't open drivers door from inside either, thankfully the window works. :) Transmission won't go in drive, but will in low... checked the fluid, doesn't even show on the stick. Think I found the problem... surprised the shop (that charged the gal $90 bucks for the "diagnosis") didn't figure that much out... xfr case works, went up the hill backwards in 4wd just fine. sunroof acts like it's got something jamming it so it won't close all the way. miracle of miracles... the tailgate window goes down, and even back up... inside and out... Praise the Lord. the a/c wasn't kicking on, one connector was off on the high pressure side, reconnected, didn't make any difference. amazingly enough all the heater control stuff does what it's supposed to, unlike certain mercedes vehicles. ;) amazing that they cut the steering wheel to remove the club... isn't there some guarantee from club about such things? all in all I think I'm going to be happy with this. I'm 99% certain I'll be driving this thing down to the MachineDoc for the heart transplant... ;) Curtis talked me in to selling the CJ-2A and keeping my J10 as a "backup"/toy/collectable... so if the 6.2L in this GW works out as expected I'll be selling the benz and the willys. Even at night I could tell how much better the ride and visibility is from this FSJ... the 300D is a fantastic car, but if the Diesel works out in this '91 Grand Wagoneer it's going to be someone elses... :) The Willys is a great rig, but at a top speed of 45mph it's not practical... I like it, but I'll use my J10 a lot more. One of my friends is going over to look at the '92 xj sport, hopefully that will find a home soon too. :) john vehicle stats: 25 April 2006 - - 1999 Grand Cherokee V8 - keeper - - 1991 Grand Cherokee V8 - getting the 6.2L Diesel - - 1983 J10 stepside, 4.0L, 5.9L or another 6.2??? TBD - - 1975 J10 hydraulic dump trailer, working well - - 1991 Mercedes 300d 2.5L TD - 30mpg in town... - - 1948 Willys CJ-2A - new paint, new top, needs new owner - - 1967 J100 panel - aka Rambo, happy in Centralia - - 1978 J10 Golden Eagle, also happy in Centralia ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- to fry some phish: http://castlecops.com/pirt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:03:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: correction: the '91 GW, it's alive... On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, john wrote: >-->Even at night I could tell how much better the ride and visibility >-->is from this FSJ... the 300D is a fantastic car, but if the >-->Diesel works out in this '91 Grand Wagoneer it's going to be >-->someone elses... :) The benz that is... ;) >-->The Willys is a great rig, but at a top >-->speed of 45mph it's not practical... I like it, but I'll >-->use my J10 a lot more. >--> >-->One of my friends is going over to look at the '92 xj sport, hopefully >-->that will find a home soon too. :) >--> >-->john >--> >-->vehicle stats: >-->25 April 2006 >--> >-->- 1999 Grand Cherokee V8 - keeper oops not a Cherokee... - - 1991 Grand Wagoneer V8 - getting the 6.2L Diesel >-->- 1983 J10 stepside, 4.0L, 5.9L or another 6.2??? TBD >-->- 1975 J10 hydraulic dump trailer, working well >-->- 1991 Mercedes 300d 2.5L TD - 30mpg in town... 1992 Cherokee sport, with not one, but two 4.0l's. ;) >-->- 1948 Willys CJ-2A - new paint, new top, needs new owner >-->- 1967 J100 panel - aka Rambo, happy in Centralia >-->- 1978 J10 Golden Eagle, also happy in Centralia ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- to fry some phish: http://castlecops.com/pirt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:01:08 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: RE: fsj: the '91 GW, it's alive... I forgot how much I hate carb's. ;) They really stink. I had to take my shirt off after standing near this thing. :) *(Why not do a TBI swap?)* Got it started, drove it around, brakes are definetly not happy about the mud situation. Still can't open the ds back door. Can't open drivers door from inside either, thankfully the window works. :) Transmission won't go in drive, but will in low... checked the fluid, doesn't even show on the stick. Think I found the problem... surprised the shop (that charged the gal $90 bucks for the "diagnosis") didn't figure that much out... xfr case works, went up the hill backwards in 4wd just fine. (snip) *(I would do the STP additive to it plus the oil, but that's me!)* amazing that they cut the steering wheel to remove the club... isn't there some guarantee from club about such things? (snip) *(They are supposed to pay the deductible on the insurance)* Even at night I could tell how much better the ride and visibility is from this FSJ... the 300D is a fantastic car, but if the Diesel works out in this '91 Grand Wagoneer it's going to be someone elses... :) The Willys is a great rig, but at a top speed of 45mph it's not practical... I like it, but I'll use my J10 a lot more. One of my friends is going over to look at the '92 xj sport, hopefully that will find a home soon too. :) john *(I'll be looking for a 4.0L bottom end to overhaul soon for my wife's '93 XJ. With 250,000+ miles on it, the current engine's piston slap sounds terminal!)* _________________________________________________________________ Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:58:52 -0400 From: "Daugherty, Walter W. \(Laser\)" Subject: xj: RE: correction: the '91 GW, it's alive... John, You are busting my popcorn budget !! Just wondering two questions... 1. what is the donor vehicle for the diesel to be installed into the GW...? GM ? Chevy ? 2. I guess it goes without saying that your intention is for WVO to be used right? any estimate on MPG with diesel in this combo and with WVO? Thanks, Bill Daugherty Bill-93XJ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:04 AM To: classic willys mail list Cc: full size jeep list; xj-list; diesel-benz list; Jeepbuilder-at-comcast.net; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net Subject: xj: correction: the '91 GW, it's alive... On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, john wrote: >-->Even at night I could tell how much better the ride and visibility >-->is from this FSJ... the 300D is a fantastic car, but if the >-->Diesel works out in this '91 Grand Wagoneer it's going to be >-->someone elses... :) The benz that is... ;) >-->The Willys is a great rig, but at a top >-->speed of 45mph it's not practical... I like it, but I'll >-->use my J10 a lot more. >--> >-->One of my friends is going over to look at the '92 xj sport, hopefully >-->that will find a home soon too. :) >--> >-->john >--> >-->vehicle stats: >-->25 April 2006 >--> >-->- 1999 Grand Cherokee V8 - keeper oops not a Cherokee... - - 1991 Grand Wagoneer V8 - getting the 6.2L Diesel >-->- 1983 J10 stepside, 4.0L, 5.9L or another 6.2??? TBD >-->- 1975 J10 hydraulic dump trailer, working well >-->- 1991 Mercedes 300d 2.5L TD - 30mpg in town... 1992 Cherokee sport, with not one, but two 4.0l's. ;) >-->- 1948 Willys CJ-2A - new paint, new top, needs new owner >-->- 1967 J100 panel - aka Rambo, happy in Centralia >-->- 1978 J10 Golden Eagle, also happy in Centralia ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - to fry some phish: http://castlecops.com/pirt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: RE: fsj: the '91 GW, it's alive... On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Jim Blair wrote: > -->I forgot how much I hate carb's. ;) They really stink. > -->I had to take my shirt off after standing near this thing. :) > -->*(Why not do a TBI swap?)* nah, MPI... with Diesel. ;) > -->(snip) > -->*(I would do the STP additive to it plus the oil, but that's me!)* yep, that's you. ;) > -->amazing that they cut the steering wheel to remove the club... > -->isn't there some guarantee from club about such things? > -->(snip) > -->*(They are supposed to pay the deductible on the insurance)* thanx, will let the lady know, pretty sure I saw a $5,000 claim on the unit I had, but mine wasn't a club either... > -->*(I'll be looking for a 4.0L bottom end to overhaul soon for my wife's '93 > -->XJ. With 250,000+ miles on it, the current engine's piston slap sounds > -->terminal!)* I might just have one... or two. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- to fry some phish: http://castlecops.com/pirt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: RE: correction: the '91 GW, it's alive... On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Daugherty, Walter W. (Laser) wrote: >-->John, You are busting my popcorn budget !! Just wondering two >-->questions... >--> >-->1. what is the donor vehicle for the diesel to be installed into the >-->GW...? >--> GM ? Chevy ? GMC 3/4T with a brand new totally beefed 700R4 and a lower mileage 6.2L see the brown GMC at: http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html (haven't added the '91 gw yet) >-->2. I guess it goes without saying that your intention is for WVO to be >-->used right? any estimate on MPG with diesel in this combo and with WVO? actually, not sure if I'll heat the aux tank or be part of a small group that is creating biodiesel here. have about 200 gallons to process. otherwise I may heat the fuel from the aux tank and use wvo. estimated mpg is based on having owned two other GMC 6.2L Diesels and other Diesels. john >-->Thanks, Bill Daugherty Bill-93XJ >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>-->vehicle stats: >-->>-->25 April 2006 >-->>--> >-->>-->- 1999 Grand Cherokee V8 - keeper >-->oops not a Cherokee... >--> >-->- 1991 Grand Wagoneer V8 - getting the 6.2L Diesel >--> >-->>-->- 1983 J10 stepside, 4.0L, 5.9L or another 6.2??? TBD >-->>-->- 1975 J10 hydraulic dump trailer, working well >-->>-->- 1991 Mercedes 300d 2.5L TD - 30mpg in town... >--> >-->1992 Cherokee sport, with not one, but two 4.0l's. ;) >--> >-->>-->- 1948 Willys CJ-2A - new paint, new top, needs new owner >-->>-->- 1967 J100 panel - aka Rambo, happy in Centralia >-->>-->- 1978 J10 Golden Eagle, also happy in Centralia >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->- >--> to fry some phish: http://castlecops.com/pirt >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- to fry some phish: http://castlecops.com/pirt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:38:03 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: xj: A shimmy or a shake Hello fellow listers, My '89 XJ has developed a terrible shake ( or shimmy ). It has just over 183,000 miles on it and at between 55mph and 60mph the steering wheel shakes from left to right (or right to left). This usually happens when I hit a bump in the road at the stated speed. I've done a quick look at the front end and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. I will soon be replacing the master cylinder which will give me the opportunity to look closer. What should I be looking for? When the speed increases over 60, the shake disappears. TIA, Marc Z. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:53:52 -0400 From: "Daugherty, Walter W. \(Laser\)" Subject: xj: RE: A shimmy or a shake Sounds like a classic wheel out-of-balance scenario. Also check the steering stabilizer shock (the horizontal one on the linkage)... bet it's weak too.. Good Luck !! Bill Daugherty Bill-93XJ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Marc Z Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:38 AM To: XJ List Subject: xj: A shimmy or a shake Hello fellow listers, My '89 XJ has developed a terrible shake ( or shimmy ). It has just over 183,000 miles on it and at between 55mph and 60mph the steering wheel shakes from left to right (or right to left). This usually happens when I hit a bump in the road at the stated speed. I've done a quick look at the front end and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. I will soon be replacing the master cylinder which will give me the opportunity to look closer. What should I be looking for? When the speed increases over 60, the shake disappears. TIA, Marc Z. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:12:40 -0500 From: "David Bierschank" Subject: Re: xj: RE: A shimmy or a shake I was also thinking steering stablilzer...... David On 4/26/06, Daugherty, Walter W. (Laser) wrote: > > Sounds like a classic wheel out-of-balance scenario. Also check the > steering stabilizer shock (the horizontal one on the linkage)... bet > it's weak too.. > > Good Luck !! Bill Daugherty Bill-93XJ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Marc > Z > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:38 AM > To: XJ List > Subject: xj: A shimmy or a shake > > Hello fellow listers, > > My '89 XJ has developed a terrible shake ( or shimmy ). It has just > over 183,000 miles on it and at between 55mph and 60mph the steering > wheel shakes from left to right (or right to left). This usually > happens when I hit a bump in the road at the stated speed. I've done a > quick look at the front end and haven't seen anything out of the > ordinary. I will soon be replacing the master cylinder which will give > me the opportunity to look closer. > > What should I be looking for? When the speed increases over 60, the > shake disappears. > > TIA, > Marc Z. > - -- David Bierschank Okiebinder okc67mustang-at-gmail.com okiebinder-at-cox.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:06:13 -0500 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: RE: xj: RE: A shimmy or a shake My ZJ(it's not that bad) does the same thing. I think the right front has gone out of balance. All the potholes are on the right. I plan to upgrade the stabilizer with the future larger tires and lift. Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daugherty, Walter W. (Laser)" Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: Subject: xj: RE: A shimmy or a shake Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:53:52 -0400 >Sounds like a classic wheel out-of-balance scenario. Also check the >steering stabilizer shock (the horizontal one on the linkage)... bet >it's weak too.. > >Good Luck !! Bill Daugherty Bill-93XJ > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Marc >Z >Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:38 AM >To: XJ List >Subject: xj: A shimmy or a shake > >Hello fellow listers, > > My '89 XJ has developed a terrible shake ( or shimmy ). It has just >over 183,000 miles on it and at between 55mph and 60mph the steering >wheel shakes from left to right (or right to left). This usually >happens when I hit a bump in the road at the stated speed. I've done a >quick look at the front end and haven't seen anything out of the >ordinary. I will soon be replacing the master cylinder which will give >me the opportunity to look closer. > > What should I be looking for? When the speed increases over 60, the >shake disappears. > >TIA, >Marc Z. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:05:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: A shimmy or a shake This is the infamous "Death Wobble". This malady will usually affect Jeeps that are traveling at a specific speed and will manifest it's self when a bump is impacted. The vibration seems to create a harmonic that feeds off of it's self and the only recourse is to change speed. Not even putting on the brakes will cure the problem unless you decrease speed as well. There are many, many different theories surrounding this phenomena and none of the "experts" will agree with another's assessment. And what makes matters worse is that this malady seems to aflict Jeeps that have been lifted...even as little as 1 inch. When I took my Death Wobble afflicted Jeep to my mechanic (who I've been using for the last 30 years, and my dad for the 30 prior to that) he replaced the steering stabilizer. When I mentioned this cure on *another* jeep list, the "experts" there said that all the new steering stabilizer is doing it masking the real problem...well, that was 4 years an 50k miles ago and I haven't had a death wobble since...so, in my estimation, the steering stabilizer solved the issue, regardless of whether it was masking the real problem or not. Ed web/gadget guru Marc Z wrote: Hello fellow listers, My '89 XJ has developed a terrible shake ( or shimmy ). It has just over 183,000 miles on it and at between 55mph and 60mph the steering wheel shakes from left to right (or right to left). This usually happens when I hit a bump in the road at the stated speed. I've done a quick look at the front end and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. I will soon be replacing the master cylinder which will give me the opportunity to look closer. What should I be looking for? When the speed increases over 60, the shake disappears. TIA, Marc Z. "Dah-doo-weeeeeee da-da-da-doo-we dow!" - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2320 *************************