From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 14 23:49:29 2006 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, December 15 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2465 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: xj: Re: Brake issues Re: xj: Re: Brake issues Re: xj: Re: Brake issues xj: administrivia: notes on using this list XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:27:37 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon-r16884" Subject: RE: xj: Re: Brake issues Ha, I went to Austin Brake & Clutch, hey can you rebuild this master cylinder? Oh, no, we can't do that, too much liability concern. They're out of business now. - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of JeepNut Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:44 PM To: xj-at-digest.net Cc: xj-digest-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: Re: Brake issues Thanks to all who joined in the frey! LOL I've wondered about using those drilled rotors... But, Jim "easy to change" sounds good to me. I'd just as soon swap them in that case. But is this an aftermarket thing?? Can I get these at NAPA?? Guess I'll go look.... On a side note I was hugely disturbed to find that none of the AutoZones NOR the NAPA's around here will turn a rotor any more. "No money in it" is what I was told. RANT ... what ever happened to it being a part of doing business and good customer service.? Does everything have to become it's own individual cost center, making a specific ROI on it's own or being abandoned without considering it's other merits? ... I guess I'm just gettin' old but that just about knocked me out that I was told 4 times last nite the same thing... we don't turn rotors or drums any more. And at the NAPA, on the wall, over his head, is a huge sign about 12' x 4' declaring WE TURN ROTORS AND DRUMS ... But I paid the SOB's for the new rotors like a good drone should... Rant over. JeepNut Jim Blair wrote: > I assume it's an XJ? Those brackets are easy to change. Welding to > fill the spot might warp the bracket unless you preheat the whole > thing. There should have been stainless "sliders" in there to keep > this from happening. > > > From: john > Subject: xj: Re: Brake issues > > could have resized these things to about 1024x... > > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/Brakes/ > > I wouldn't weld on brakes... although they normally get hot... > ;) > > john > > On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, JeepNut wrote: > >> -->Hi all, >> --> I will attach some photos that the list mail will > autostrip, but >> -->John maybe could set them up for a week or so?.... >> --> Noise from the front instigated a brake check. The > "slider >> -->surfaces" of the (steering knuckle?) where the notches for > the brake >> -->shoes ride are worn pretty deep with some dips where those > shoes have >> -->been riding on that steel for nearly 15 years... It's > keeping the >> -->caliper from sliding freely and it's causing it to hang to > the inside, >> -->causing the outer pad to run all the way to the metal while > the inner >> -->pad is only half gone. --> >> --> The question is.... how do I fix these deep gouges? >> -->Now here is where you'll have to reference those photos, but > they >> -->clearly show the wear marks. -->Can I weld some filler in there >> and file it down or is that > totally >> -->ill-advised? -->Just file it down and hope for the best? >> --> >> --> Durn thing's only got 241000 miles on it, I can't > believe the >> -->thing's got wear marks in it.... >> --> P.S. I bought this one new in 92... its my DD still.... >> --> JeepNut >> --> >> --> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio > powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:15:38 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: Re: Brake issues Well of course it is all about a profit...in today's global economy where the local machine shop has to compete against government subsidized wages in third world countries, it's impossible for the "small guy" to compete. I can to go any car parts store and I'm given a choice as to which rotor I want to purchase for my XJ...the $65 rotor made in the USA, or a $25 rotor that's made in China...(napa has them for $35...) Compare side by side, there is really no physical difference between the two..The rotor has basically become a disposable commodity at that price. I have a friend who is ACSE (I might have those letters out of order, I dont' remember anymore) certified mechanic...He quit and went into IT because he said that there is no more "Art" in auto machanics. With the technology and the mechanic is now is a parts swapper. Change enough parts and you'll eventually get it right. So, he went on to become a Java programmer and is quite good at it...(I get my R12 from him for my AC in my Jeep...he can get it legally) I remember working on my brakes on my 72 Cutlass back in the '80s and buying a replacement rotor involved at least $120 each and you could only get them from the dealer...so turning was a cheap alternative. Now? It's cheaper to dump them in a landfill and get a recycled USA automobile in the shape of a rotor...Sad really. Ed JeepNut wrote: On a side note I was hugely disturbed to find that none of the AutoZones NOR the NAPA's around here will turn a rotor any more. "No money in it" is what I was told. RANT ... what ever happened to it being a part of doing business and good customer service.? Does everything have to become it's own individual cost center, making a specific ROI on it's own or being abandoned without considering it's other merits? ... I guess I'm just gettin' old but that just about knocked me out that I was told 4 times last nite the same thing... we don't turn rotors or drums any more. And at the NAPA, on the wall, over his head, is a huge sign about 12' x 4' declaring WE TURN ROTORS AND DRUMS ... But I paid the SOB's for the new rotors like a good drone should... Rant over. JeepNut Jim Blair wrote: > I assume it's an XJ? Those brackets are easy to change. Welding to > fill the spot might warp the bracket unless you preheat the whole > thing. There should have been stainless "sliders" in there to keep > this from happening. > > > From: john > Subject: xj: Re: Brake issues > > could have resized these things to about 1024x... > > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/Brakes/ > > I wouldn't weld on brakes... although they normally get hot... > ;) > > john > > On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, JeepNut wrote: > >> -->Hi all, >> --> I will attach some photos that the list mail will > autostrip, but >> -->John maybe could set them up for a week or so?.... >> --> Noise from the front instigated a brake check. The > "slider >> -->surfaces" of the (steering knuckle?) where the notches for > the brake >> -->shoes ride are worn pretty deep with some dips where those > shoes have >> -->been riding on that steel for nearly 15 years... It's > keeping the >> -->caliper from sliding freely and it's causing it to hang to > the inside, >> -->causing the outer pad to run all the way to the metal while > the inner >> -->pad is only half gone. --> >> --> The question is.... how do I fix these deep gouges? >> -->Now here is where you'll have to reference those photos, but > they >> -->clearly show the wear marks. -->Can I weld some filler in there >> and file it down or is that > totally >> -->ill-advised? -->Just file it down and hope for the best? >> --> >> --> Durn thing's only got 241000 miles on it, I can't > believe the >> -->thing's got wear marks in it.... >> --> P.S. I bought this one new in 92... its my DD still.... >> --> JeepNut >> --> >> --> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio > powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 Don't You Love Mistyping URL's.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ....when they turn out to be pretty neat. In this case I was trying for Engadget.com, and instead wound up at www.edgadget.com which appears to have lots of Newton software. - ProfessorF from the UK pcpro/macuser forum - --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:28:06 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Brake issues recycle the old rotors, they'll end up back in China instead of the landfill. john On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Ed Kummel wrote: >-->Well of course it is all about a profit...in today's global economy where the local machine shop has to compete against government subsidized wages in third world countries, it's impossible for the "small guy" to compete. I can to go any car parts store and I'm given a choice as to which rotor I want to purchase for my XJ...the $65 rotor made in the USA, or a $25 rotor that's made in China...(napa has them for $35...) Compare side by side, there is really no physical difference between the two..The rotor has basically become a disposable commodity at that price. >-->I have a friend who is ACSE (I might have those letters out of order, I dont' remember anymore) certified mechanic...He quit and went into IT because he said that there is no more "Art" in auto machanics. With the technology and the mechanic is now is a parts swapper. Change enough parts and you'll eventually get it right. So, he went on to become a Java programmer and is quite good at it...(I get my R12 from him for my AC in my Jeep...he can get it legally) >-->I remember working on my brakes on my 72 Cutlass back in the '80s and buying a replacement rotor involved at least $120 each and you could only get them from the dealer...so turning was a cheap alternative. Now? It's cheaper to dump them in a landfill and get a recycled USA automobile in the shape of a rotor...Sad really. >-->Ed >--> >-->JeepNut wrote: >-->On a side note I was hugely disturbed to find that none of the AutoZones >-->NOR the NAPA's around here will turn a rotor any more. >-->"No money in it" is what I was told. >-->RANT >-->... what ever happened to it being a part of doing business and good >-->customer service.? Does everything have to become it's own individual >-->cost center, making a specific ROI on it's own or being abandoned >-->without considering it's other merits? ... I guess I'm just gettin' old >-->but that just about knocked me out that I was told 4 times last nite the >-->same thing... we don't turn rotors or drums any more. >-->And at the NAPA, on the wall, over his head, is a huge sign about 12' x >-->4' declaring WE TURN ROTORS AND DRUMS ... >-->But I paid the SOB's for the new rotors like a good drone should... >-->Rant over. >--> JeepNut >--> >--> >-->Jim Blair wrote: >-->> I assume it's an XJ? Those brackets are easy to change. Welding to >-->> fill the spot might warp the bracket unless you preheat the whole >-->> thing. There should have been stainless "sliders" in there to keep >-->> this from happening. >-->> >-->> >-->> From: john >-->> Subject: xj: Re: Brake issues >-->> >-->> could have resized these things to about 1024x... >-->> >-->> http://wagoneers.com/tmp/Brakes/ >-->> >-->> I wouldn't weld on brakes... although they normally get hot... >-->> ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, JeepNut wrote: >-->> >-->>> -->Hi all, >-->>> --> I will attach some photos that the list mail will >-->> autostrip, but >-->>> -->John maybe could set them up for a week or so?.... >-->>> --> Noise from the front instigated a brake check. The >-->> "slider >-->>> -->surfaces" of the (steering knuckle?) where the notches for >-->> the brake >-->>> -->shoes ride are worn pretty deep with some dips where those >-->> shoes have >-->>> -->been riding on that steel for nearly 15 years... It's >-->> keeping the >-->>> -->caliper from sliding freely and it's causing it to hang to >-->> the inside, >-->>> -->causing the outer pad to run all the way to the metal while >-->> the inner >-->>> -->pad is only half gone. --> >-->>> --> The question is.... how do I fix these deep gouges? >-->>> -->Now here is where you'll have to reference those photos, but >-->> they >-->>> -->clearly show the wear marks. -->Can I weld some filler in there >-->>> and file it down or is that >-->> totally >-->>> -->ill-advised? -->Just file it down and hope for the best? >-->>> --> >-->>> --> Durn thing's only got 241000 miles on it, I can't >-->> believe the >-->>> -->thing's got wear marks in it.... >-->>> --> P.S. I bought this one new in 92... its my DD still.... >-->>> --> JeepNut >-->>> --> >-->>> --> >-->> >-->> _________________________________________________________________ >-->> Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio >-->> powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 >--> >--> >--> >-->Don't You Love Mistyping URL's.... >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->....when they turn out to be pretty neat. >--> >-->In this case I was trying for Engadget.com, and instead wound up at www.edgadget.com which appears to have lots of Newton software. >--> >--> - ProfessorF from the UK pcpro/macuser forum >--> >-->--------------------------------- >-->Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:05:00 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2465 *************************