From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Dec 31 23:06:25 2006 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, January 1 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2476 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: "only one Jeep" xj: RE: fsj: "only one Jeep" xj: xj injectors - 92 vs 97 xj: Re: [db] "only one Jeep" xj: RE: xj-digest V1 #2464 xj: administrivia: notes on using this list XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:47:56 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: "only one Jeep" On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Jon Filina wrote: >--> so it looks like I'm ending another > -->>year with only one functioning jeep... :) > --> > -->Bummer, man! The dreaded "only one Jeep" syndrome.... > -->Better one MB than many Jeeps.... > -->;-) > -->Jon > -->'95 E300D "Ernestine" > -->'84 300SD "Bruno" very thankful I have one of each and that neither need any fixin'. if they made a Jeep with a Diesel that I could afford, wasn't heavily influenced by Rube Goldberg and/or the Dodge Brothers, I might even sell off this fleet and get just one rig... never had a new car... not sure I ever will, the thought of spending $40k on a set of wheels seems really stupid to me. john RUNS: 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo (WJ) 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV 247 (Quadradrive) RUNS: 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT(Shadowfax) will run "soon": 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (SJ) 5.9/727/np229 (Omega) will run "soon": 1948 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (Alpha) in a bazillion pieces, six years now...: 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) (Superdawg) was 4.2L I-6/T-5/NP208 --> 6.2L/700R4/NP219 incapable of running, it's a trailer: 1975 Jeep J10 (SJ)Bed/trailer hydraulic dump not completely functional: 1967 Jeep J100 (SJ)Panel (Rambo) hahahaha: 1947 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (for sale) sort of runs... long story: 1990 Jeep Cherokee (XJ) 4.0/AW4/np242 -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:48:54 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: RE: fsj: "only one Jeep" A: I have been tempted too much today. I may have just added another to my fleet. ('86 Dodge Ramcharger that needs some mechanical fixing but has an excellent body) I made an offer and the guy is thinking about it. (It'll go to my oldest son in Canada if he can take it up there) It has the Nissan diesel engine with 727/NP208 (tcase is toast and so is the front CAD diff but the motor/trans seem okay) I have a Jeep NP208 (which will bolt in but it's LH drop) and my son can get a pair of Ford 3/4 ton axles (LH drop D44 high pinion and D60 full float) and I'll take the original axles for my Comanche (I can use the 5 on 4.5" pattern D44 front hub assemblies with an FSJ D44 axle for a major front axle upgrade. They even have manual hubs! Apparently used only 3 or 4 years) That'll give me a quickie brake upgrade on the front and the 9 1/4" rear will be an improvement over the D35. (I really want an MJ Model 20 though with 3.73 gears) On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Jon Filina wrote: >--> so it looks like I'm ending another >-->>year with only one functioning jeep... :) >--> >-->Bummer, man! The dreaded "only one Jeep" syndrome.... >-->Better one MB than many Jeeps.... >-->;-) >-->Jon >-->'95 E300D "Ernestine" >-->'84 300SD "Bruno" very thankful I have one of each and that neither need any fixin'. if they made a Jeep with a Diesel that I could afford, wasn't heavily influenced by Rube Goldberg and/or the Dodge Brothers, I might even sell off this fleet and get just one rig... never had a new car... not sure I ever will, the thought of spending $40k on a set of wheels seems really stupid to me. john RUNS: 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo (WJ) 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV 247 (Quadradrive) RUNS: 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT(Shadowfax) will run "soon": 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (SJ) 5.9/727/np229 (Omega) will run "soon": 1948 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (Alpha) in a bazillion pieces, six years now...: 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) (Superdawg) was 4.2L I-6/T-5/NP208 --> 6.2L/700R4/NP219 incapable of running, it's a trailer: 1975 Jeep J10 (SJ)Bed/trailer hydraulic dump not completely functional: 1967 Jeep J100 (SJ)Panel (Rambo) hahahaha: 1947 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (for sale) sort of runs... long story: 1990 Jeep Cherokee (XJ) 4.0/AW4/np242 -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 19:42:56 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: xj injectors - 92 vs 97 On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, g wrote: >-->John, >-->Can you help me? will try, saw your email when I was in Vegas, couldn't remember where I put some data that might help, here it is: http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/Engines/4.0L-injector-tech-info.txt >-->I am looking for some guidance, I am replacing my 92 4.0 engine in an XJ >-->with a 4.0 HO from a 97 XJ and have notice some differences. >--> >-->1. 92 engine has a temp sensor or something on the drivers side of back of >-->the head, not there on the 97 so what is this sensor and is it located >-->someplace else? I don't think I have a shop manual for a '97. I'll head down to my office and see what I can dig up. Shouldn't be too hard to sort out the sensors either way. I've got the remains of a '92 sitting in pieces in my shop, and one complete '96. I don't know if things changed from '96 to '97 or not... looking at the specs: '96-'99, ........53030778, ...Grey, .........49psi, .................23.2lb/hr looks like my '96 will be the same as the '97. My '92 would be different: 91-'93, ........33007127, ...Brown, .......39psi, .................21.0lb/hr my son has a '90 in the yard, but right now it has my '92 injectors in it. :) >-->2. throttle body on the 92 only has two electronic switches/sensors on it >-->while the 97 has three, what's the extra one for? the best solution for you is to get on ebay or check dyment publications for a shop manual for at least the '97, that should give you what you need... even a chiltons should give you enough info... hey, unscrew the sensor and see what comes out... oil, water or nothing? if it's oil it's mostly likely a pressure sending unit or idiot light, if water it's either the temp gauge or a sensor... see if you can find a part number... or even easier, go to the Jeep dealership and ask them to find it on the computer... they'll tell you everything you need to know. >-->3. Pulley system for the serpentine is slightly different, does this matter? shouldn't just remember to use the correct accessories with the engine otherwise you won't be happy if your engine overheats because the water pump was spinning the wrong way... like my friend who put the 4.0L into his CJ-7 and used the 258 pump. :) >-->Then there is the removal of the fuel rail from the 92 as I was told to use >-->it as opposed to the missing one from the 97. I have removed the connectors >-->and retaining clips but wiggling the fuel rail loose from the injector >-->doesn't work nor the injectors from the intake. Can you tell me how to get >-->these off. looking through my pictures (below) I can't find any that show the use of a pick to get the injector off the connector... http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/Engines/xj-tech-88-injector-clips.jpg http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/4.0L-injectors/throttle-body-top.jpg http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/4.0L-injectors/ http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/TPS-adjustment.html >-->Once off, what injectors should I buy for the 97, 97 or 92??? Should I go >-->with bigger and badrrr ones for Horse Power? Or still with stock so it will >-->pass emissions? go with what it's supposed to have... you'll just kill your economy, destroy your cat and shorten the life of your engine... >-->I think that's it for now. can't help much... you need a shop manual from both years and the help of the parts department guy, be real nice to him. :) >-->Your assistance is much appreciated. what little I could provide. john >--> >-->Gary >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 19:51:24 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] "only one Jeep" I think my first "house" was $16k. prices are a bit higher where I live now... ;) my little 1,300 sq ft two story 22 year old house on a half acre is in the area of 440k right now... of course if I were to sell it I couldn't afford to replace it... little lots with big houses in town are selling in the "low" 500s these days... it's worse when you get down on the eastside or in seattle... nonetheless... 40k for a set of wheels that will sell for 10 to 15 in 4 to 5 years doesn't seem like a good investment... the clueless masses buy these new cars, drive them until the warranty is off, the tires need replacing or something else and they sell them or trade them in... if they trade them in they are lost to me, not willing to pay a dealer their prices for the used cars. I think kbb does a disservice when they provide a "trade-in", retail and private party value... the private party and retail value should be the same. You're more likely to get a good deal with a more reliable vehicle from a private party than you will a dealer. Dealers tell you nothing, usually throw away the extra keys, floor mats and owners manuals... leaving you with a bare car and no info... of course CARFUD is a useless waste of money that works in the favor of the dealers, as does some states that EXEMPT dealers from emissions on used cars!!!! So, there are two reasons why one might want to go to a dealer in washington state: 1) no emissions on the "new" purchase, and 2) sales tax is reduced by your trade in. Of course if you're paying 30% or more for your "new" used car you'd still be better off on your own. john On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Jon Filina wrote: > -->John wrote: > --> > -->> >if they made a Jeep with a Diesel that I could afford, wasn't heavily > -->> >influenced > -->> >by Rube Goldberg and/or the Dodge Brothers, I might even sell off this > -->> >fleet > -->> >and get just one rig... never had a new car... not sure I ever will, > -->> >the > -->> >thought of spending $40k on a set of wheels seems really stupid to me. > --> > -->New? Not now! Too complicated for my tastes. I did buy new in '72 (Datsun > -->Pickup), '73 (Ford Pinto), '76 (VW Dasher), '80 (Subaru GL5), '81 (VW Rabbit > -->Diesel LS-the diesel bug finally got to me) and '90 (VW Jetta GL Diesel...). > -->Since then it's been used and diesel. This '95 MB E300D has more non > -->essential power stuff than I'd prefer, but has been pretty reliable so far. > --> > -->$40k???!!! I didn't spend that for my house. Of course, that was 30 years > -->ago... > --> > -->Happy New Years and here's to KISS. (Not the group, the acronym....) > --> > -->Jon > -->'95 E300D "Ernestine" > -->'84 300SD "Bruno" > --> > --> > --> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 20:36:35 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: RE: xj-digest V1 #2464 A: I think this was posted about the time my power went out and I didn't get to reply to it. Haven't seen the brackets at NAPA, but I have some around I can look at. I have the whole knuckles and CV axles from a '93 Grand Cherokee I plan to install into my '87 Comanche's vacuum disco D30 (gets me a brake upgrade for now. My middle son will be using the axle later in his Comanche that he's converting to 4x4 like I did) Due to lawsuits (hazardous waste, mistakes, labor cost, etc), NAPA has divested itself of the machine shops that used to turn rotors and drums. I take mine to the local Schucks I used to work at, and borrow their lathe. (I usually end up turning some for others in the process and get a lot of "when did you start working here again?" comments because I have to wear my old Schucks shirt to do it) From: JeepNut Subject: Re: xj: Re: Brake issues Thanks to all who joined in the frey! LOL I've wondered about using those drilled rotors... But, Jim "easy to change" sounds good to me. I'd just as soon swap them in that case. But is this an aftermarket thing?? Can I get these at NAPA?? Guess I'll go look.... On a side note I was hugely disturbed to find that none of the AutoZones NOR the NAPA's around here will turn a rotor any more. "No money in it" is what I was told. RANT ... what ever happened to it being a part of doing business and good customer service.? Does everything have to become it's own individual cost center, making a specific ROI on it's own or being abandoned without considering it's other merits? ... I guess I'm just gettin' old but that just about knocked me out that I was told 4 times last nite the same thing... we don't turn rotors or drums any more. And at the NAPA, on the wall, over his head, is a huge sign about 12' x 4' declaring WE TURN ROTORS AND DRUMS ... But I paid the SOB's for the new rotors like a good drone should... Rant over. JeepNut Jim Blair wrote: >I assume it's an XJ? Those brackets are easy to change. Welding to >fill the spot might warp the bracket unless you preheat the whole >thing. There should have been stainless "sliders" in there to keep >this from happening. > > _________________________________________________________________ Experience the magic of the holidays. Talk to Santa on Messenger. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?locale=en-us ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 07:05:00 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2476 *************************