From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Mar 11 22:08:22 2007 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, March 12 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2530 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs Re: xj: Re: the later XJs xj: Re: [db] the '00 xj xj: Re: [db] the '00 xj xj: Rims Re: xj: Re: the later XJs Re: xj: Re: the later XJs Re: xj: re: torque settings, or "mechanic's feel" XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:53:21 -0500 From: "Bob" Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs Thanks. You know, if they were truly concerned they could "Google" the web and see what people are saying about the brand (and the "digest" does come up....even seen some of my posts in the results) and they probably have. Certainly the major car company's priorities are different than the consumer's, and my guess is that has a lot to do with the trouble most of them are in.......but what do "we" know? In my business, I spend an awful lot of time "apologizing" for Chrysler's prices, lack of quality, etc.....but according to my friends at "other brand" dealerships, they do much of the same. "Sorry Sir, I only sell the junk, I don't make it!" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:43 PM Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs > GOOD FOR YOU! Congrats! > > Ask those questions respectfully. Tell them you have > the backing of a rabid group of Jeep loyalists who only > want to see the brand succeed and flourish! > > What they've done to the brand recently is criminal. Give > them my phone number, will be happy to talk to them and > tell them what I realy think. :) > > john > > On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Bob wrote: > >> -->Heh heh....one of the questions I'm likely to ask after a few drinks >> when >> -->I'm at the "Chrysler National Manager Awards" in Austin Texas later >> this >> -->week..... >> --> >> -->Last week at the "Regional awards" they put us up at the Waldorf in >> NYC and >> -->had a gala event in the "Empire Room".......I'd had a few when to my >> -->surprise I was awarded the "Parts Manager of the Year" award for the >> -->"Northeast Business Center"........I had just been asking such >> "annoying" >> -->questions of the "big wigs" during cocktails and dinner as "Why did >> you >> -->discontinue the XJ?" and "Why didn't we put the AW4 in everything?" >> -->etc........none of them bothered to respond of course......same guys >> I'd >> -->been pestering handed me the award later......oops! >> --> >> -->So since they are sending me on to the National awards, I figure it'll >> give >> -->me the opportunity to harrass them further.....Mr. Lasorda is supposed >> to be >> -->present........ >> --> >> --> >> -->----- Original Message ----- From: "john" >> -->To: >> -->Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:17 PM >> -->Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs >> --> >> --> >> -->> thanx. >> -->> >> -->> brian, the list mom, just traded into a TJ, we found >> -->> out it's a chrysler torqueflite three speed with od or was >> -->> it a lockup? why didn't they use the bulletproof AW4 in >> -->> the zj/tj??? >> -->> >> -->> oh well.. >> -->> >> -->> not going to be an issue for me... didn't get excited >> -->> about this thing. >> -->> >> -->> not sure if I'll pick up the 2001 either, even though it's >> -->> a bargain, we'll see how it looks and drives... >> -->> >> -->> john >> -->> >> -->> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Bob wrote: >> -->> >> -->> > -->The "Man from Moldville" inquires: >> -->> > --> >> -->> > --> >> -->> > --> > Are there any issues with the 2000 and 2001 XJs? >> -->> > --> >> -->> > -->As I've mentioned here in the past, there is ONE serious issue >> with >> -->> > SOME of >> -->> > -->the '00 and '01 XJ's......we have had a large number of them in >> our >> -->> > shop >> -->> > -->with bad head castings resulting in cracks in the center, >> usually >> -->> > visible >> -->> > -->just under the oil filler cap. >> -->> > -->Most of them show up as a problem prior to 36K or so (just >> prior to >> -->> > ending >> -->> > -->the 3/36 warranty), but I did see one that didn't show up 'til >> 80K >> -->> > (lucky >> -->> > -->for the customer it was one of our "8/80 certified" used >> cars!). >> -->> > -->Could just be particular to the batch sold here in the New >> England >> -->> > area >> -->> > -->because none of you guys ever piped up with "Yes! I've seen >> that >> -->> > too!"...... >> -->> > --> >> -->> > --> > Do they still have the AW4 trans? >> -->> > --> >> -->> > -->As noted by others, yes....thankfully. >> -->> > --> >> -->> > --> > Anyone know of anything in particular to look out for? >> -->> > --> >> -->> > -->See above. >> -->> > --> >> -->> > -->Bob "The parts guy" in CT >> -->> > --> >> -->> > --> >> -->> >> -->> ----- >> -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> -->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >> -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --> > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:35:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs It's sad that the folks making the decisions are so far removed from the end product. We don't do things like that in my business... we can't. john On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Bob wrote: > -->Thanks. > --> > -->You know, if they were truly concerned they could "Google" the web and see > -->what people are saying about the brand (and the "digest" does come > -->up....even seen some of my posts in the results) and they probably have. > -->Certainly the major car company's priorities are different than the > -->consumer's, and my guess is that has a lot to do with the trouble most of > -->them are in.......but what do "we" know? > --> > -->In my business, I spend an awful lot of time "apologizing" for Chrysler's > -->prices, lack of quality, etc.....but according to my friends at "other > -->brand" dealerships, they do much of the same. > --> > -->"Sorry Sir, I only sell the junk, I don't make it!" > --> > --> > -->----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > -->To: > -->Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:43 PM > -->Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs > --> > --> > -->> GOOD FOR YOU! Congrats! > -->> > -->> Ask those questions respectfully. Tell them you have > -->> the backing of a rabid group of Jeep loyalists who only > -->> want to see the brand succeed and flourish! > -->> > -->> What they've done to the brand recently is criminal. Give > -->> them my phone number, will be happy to talk to them and > -->> tell them what I realy think. :) > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Bob wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->Heh heh....one of the questions I'm likely to ask after a few drinks > -->> > when > -->> > -->I'm at the "Chrysler National Manager Awards" in Austin Texas later > -->> > this > -->> > -->week..... > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Last week at the "Regional awards" they put us up at the Waldorf in > -->> > NYC and > -->> > -->had a gala event in the "Empire Room".......I'd had a few when to my > -->> > -->surprise I was awarded the "Parts Manager of the Year" award for the > -->> > -->"Northeast Business Center"........I had just been asking such > -->> > "annoying" > -->> > -->questions of the "big wigs" during cocktails and dinner as "Why did > -->> > you > -->> > -->discontinue the XJ?" and "Why didn't we put the AW4 in everything?" > -->> > -->etc........none of them bothered to respond of course......same guys > -->> > I'd > -->> > -->been pestering handed me the award later......oops! > -->> > --> > -->> > -->So since they are sending me on to the National awards, I figure > -->> > -->it'll > -->> > give > -->> > -->me the opportunity to harrass them further.....Mr. Lasorda is > -->> > supposed to be > -->> > -->present........ > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > -->> > -->----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > -->> > -->To: > -->> > -->Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:17 PM > -->> > -->Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > thanx. > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > brian, the list mom, just traded into a TJ, we found > -->> > --> > out it's a chrysler torqueflite three speed with od or was > -->> > --> > it a lockup? why didn't they use the bulletproof AW4 in > -->> > --> > the zj/tj??? > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > oh well.. > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > not going to be an issue for me... didn't get excited > -->> > --> > about this thing. > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > not sure if I'll pick up the 2001 either, even though it's > -->> > --> > a bargain, we'll see how it looks and drives... > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > john > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Bob wrote: > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > > -->The "Man from Moldville" inquires: > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > --> > Are there any issues with the 2000 and 2001 XJs? > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->As I've mentioned here in the past, there is ONE serious > -->> > --> > > -->issue > -->> > with > -->> > --> > > SOME of > -->> > --> > > -->the '00 and '01 XJ's......we have had a large number of them > -->> > --> > > in > -->> > our > -->> > --> > > shop > -->> > --> > > -->with bad head castings resulting in cracks in the center, > -->> > usually > -->> > --> > > visible > -->> > --> > > -->just under the oil filler cap. > -->> > --> > > -->Most of them show up as a problem prior to 36K or so (just > -->> > prior to > -->> > --> > > ending > -->> > --> > > -->the 3/36 warranty), but I did see one that didn't show up > -->> > --> > > 'til > -->> > 80K > -->> > --> > > (lucky > -->> > --> > > -->for the customer it was one of our "8/80 certified" used > -->> > cars!). > -->> > -->> > -->Could just be particular to the batch sold here in the New > -->> > England > -->> > --> > > area > -->> > --> > > -->because none of you guys ever piped up with "Yes! I've seen > -->> > that > -->> > --> > > too!"...... > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > --> > Do they still have the AW4 trans? > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->As noted by others, yes....thankfully. > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > --> > Anyone know of anything in particular to look out for? > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->See above. > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->Bob "The parts guy" in CT > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > ----- > -->> > --> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they > -->> > --> > mold > -->> > --> > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> > --> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> > -->> > -->> ----- > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:41:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] the '00 xj dude, the event is like over... you're late... already test drove it, and am back doing homework. :) john On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Alex? Jon? >--> >--> Where are you guys?!?! I can't go this alone!!!! >--> >-->;) >--> >-->Jim >--> >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-2000/ALL.html >-->> >-->> is this worth trading or selling my '91 300D for? >-->> >-->> :) >--> >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] the '00 xj yeah, we need to figure out how to make the stock seat more comfy, and keep the heater working... tall order. :) need to work with the 124 seats... not a problem in the FSJ, just used a different seat, plan for superdawg is a pair of WJ seats. :) was thinking about WJ seats in an XJ too... but it doesn't look good for an XJ for now, at least not to replace shadowfax... BIG difference in the way the XJ and the 124 drove... very happy with the 300D. I think I need a few close calls like this... just wish my J10 would hurry up and get done so I can start using all this veggie oil. :) john > -->Yo, Big John! Ya want more comfy seats in Shadowfax? I considered the ones > -->in my 240D about the most comfortable. The W124 and W123 are pretty close > -->in dims. I wonder if a 240D or 300D seat would fit. The seats in my W126, > -->300SD, are comfy but they don't fit me as well as my 240D. I don't think > -->they'd work in a 124, though. > --> > -->Big Jim! I'm here for ya. I'm just not around here as much as I'd like to > -->be. > -->Yo, Alec! Are ya still with us? Or, did ur neighbor's wine sneak up on > -->ya... > -->Jon ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:32:28 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: xj: Rims A: An axle swap in front is easy. '91 to '96 high pinion (or earlier non-vacuum axles) bolt in. On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, ernest breakfield wrote: >-->hi! >--> >--> not sure what you can do about the bad angles created by the low >pinion >-->front dif without changing axles; it's not as simple as dealing with >rear >-->shaft vibes by doing a Short-Output Tail Cone (commonly included in >and/or >-->referred to as a Slip Yoke Eliminator). >--> >--> >-->cheers! >-->e _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:35:59 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs Oops! Previous had the wrong subject line! The TJ is actually a lockup without overdrive. They didn't think the TJ needed one with 3.08 gears. Length was the issue in the TJ and pride in the ZJ/WJ. (as they say pride before the great fall) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs thanx. brian, the list mom, just traded into a TJ, we found out it's a chrysler torqueflite three speed with od or was it a lockup? why didn't they use the bulletproof AW4 in the zj/tj??? oh well.. not going to be an issue for me... didn't get excited about this thing. not sure if I'll pick up the 2001 either, even though it's a bargain, we'll see how it looks and drives... john _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:45:40 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: xj: Re: the later XJs A: They are probably the same as the XJ one. I took apart the dash in the '93 I parted and didn't notice it being different, but that rig was twisted up a bit. I'll have an AX-15/NP208J combo to sell soon (has Dana 300 adapter ring to make it work) Gotta PAY taxes this year (what? The $5,000 or so they took from our paychecks wasn't enough?) and I didn't make it to the swapmeet to sell (was great for buying tho. I think the rain threat kept a LOT of buyers away) There were LOTS of FSJ stuff there! Some near pristine fenders (GW and plain jane Cherokee full size) for like $20 each, complete with inner fenders! Too bad no wide track or Jtruck ones in similar condition, but I did get 5 BFG TAs 33/9.50/15s that will be delivered next saturday for $200 w/o rims, but with -at-75% tread.. From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: the later XJs olympic 4x4 in snohomish might have that pedal assy, or check with a jeep dealer... don't think I've ever seen a manual in a ZJ. tell ya what, as much as I've bad mouthed ZJs over the years... they are much better than the independent front suspension units or the KJs. the last good Jeep is the WJ and the TJ. I may start looking at other brands... :) I've got two folks interested in my '91 GW... after this weekend I've decided to stick with my 300D, the WJ, the CJ and wait to see how the J10 turns out. if it doesn't I may get serious about an early '90s XJ with a Benz Diesel... hoping the 6.2L in the J10 does the trick, but I've been waiting for six years to get my truck done... :( only been waiting six months for the CJ-2A... it's really close to being finished... john On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Stephen Cahill wrote: >-->Hello John >--> >-->I broke down and bought a ZJ that was a highway only unit. >-->97 vintage, only 85 K on engine. Body pristine. >-->Transmission bad. >-->5 speed going in it. one of the diesels I sell to follow. >--> >-->Somebody out there may know where there is a pedal assembly from a 1993 >or >-->1994 ZJ that had the 5 speed in it. That is all I need to do this >rebuild. >--> >-->I sent someone over to see if they want to do the rebuild on that 1990 Grand >-->Wagoneer. >--> >-->Thanks >-->Stephen _________________________________________________________________ Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:00:43 -0700 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: xj: re: torque settings, or "mechanic's feel" i can't believe i never got back to this any sooner, but here's an excerpt from the passage i was thinking of about how directions get written (taken from the book 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'). the main character is speaking,... ""I'm from the factory too," I say "and I know how instructions like this are put together. You go out on the assembly line with a tape recorder and the foreman sends you to talk to the guy he needs least, the biggest goof-off he's got, and whatever he tells you...that's the instructions. The next guy might have told you something completely different and probably better, but he's too busy."" cheers! e john wrote: > On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, ernest breakfield wrote: > > >> -->i guess maybe you'd have to know me to understand why i find quotes from >> -->an admittedly insane former Tech Writer so amusing...? ;-) >> --> >> --> my favorite description of how manuals get written comes from that >> -->book. ;-O >> > > > oh do share... I work near a couple of whacky tech writers... used > to teach tech writing in the last century... > > john > > > >> --> >> --> >> -->cheers! >> -->e >> --> >> --> >> -->> excellent... :) >> -->> john >> -->> >> -->> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >> -->> John wrote: >> -->> >> -->>> A general rule of thumb on stuff like this is to tighten it down until >> -->>> it seats and then give it 3/4 to 1 turn, depending on the "Feel". >> -->>> >> -->>> It's something you learn after twisting a few bolts off... :) >> -->>> >> -->> Here's one of my favorite passages from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle >> -->> Maintenance: >> -->> >> -->> "The mechanic's feel comes from a deep inner kinesthetic feeling for the >> -->> elasticity of materials. Some materials, like ceramics, have very >> -->> little, so that when you thread a porcelain fitting you're very >> -->> careful not to apply great pressures. Other materials, like steel, >> -->> have tremendous elasticity, more than rubber, but in a range in >> -->> which, unless you're working with large mechanical forces, the >> -->> elasticity isn't apparent. >> -->> >> -->> With nuts and bolts you're in the range of large mechanical forces >> -->> and you should understand that within these ranges metals are >> -->> elastic. When you take up a nut there's a point called "finger-tight" >> -->> where there's contact but no takeup of elasticity. Then there's >> -->> "snug," in which the easy surface elasticity is taken up. Then >> -->> there's a range called "tight," in which all the elasticity is >> -->> taken up. The force required to reach these three points is >> -->> different for each size of nut and bolt, and different for >> -->> lubricated bolts and for locknuts. The forces are different >> -->> for steel and cast iron and brass and aluminum and plastics >> -->> and ceramics. But a person with mechanic's feel knows when >> -->> something's tight and stops. A person without it goes right >> -->> on past and strips the threads or breaks the assembly. >> -->> >> -->> A "mechanic's feel" implies not only an understanding for the >> -->> elasticity of metal but for its softness... It's important to >> -->> understand that the metal behind the surfaces can normally >> -->> take great shock and stress but the surfaces themselves cannot." >> -->> >> -->> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >> -->> >> -->> >> -->> ---- >> -->> >> -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >> -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >> -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --> >> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2530 *************************