From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Apr 22 09:22:56 2007 From: xj-digest xj-digest Sunday, April 22 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2562 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:10:51 -0600 From: "David Smith" Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... Did the ZJ have optional variable ratio steering? I'm pretty sure mine doesn't. I had that in my 89 honda accord and I loved it, worked really well. My ZJ has undergone a transformation since I purchased it a few years ago. Its a 97 and had 84k miles. Pretty good for a 7 year old vehicle. So far its been nonstop maintenance, but its finally getting to a point where I feel like its mechanically solid, other than my 4L starting to make new noises now. I changed all the control arm bushings, the tranny was rebuilt at 100k, now has OME springs and shocks, front disconnects, I yanked the rear swaybar.. had lots of irritations with oil leaks and tranny leaks but they also seem to have been resolved now. all in all, most of the issues have been associated with the motor and tranny, the control arm bushings made a huge difference, apparently on the ZJ it has the same control arm bushings as a TJ but they are "weakened" versions to make the ride "comfy".. mine now has the real tj bushings instead. I guess all of the above can be expected for a ~130k maintenance, the 42RE tranny is really a sad piece of machinery but can't do much about that now. > > >-->While I agree that the WJ has luxury up the wazzoo, I can't get used to driving them. My Wife's 96 Limited has everything including the memory and autodimming mirrors. but I can't get used to the variable ratio steering, And the seats don't seem to fit me as well as the ones in my 89 Wagoneer LTD. And is it my imagination, or is there considerably less leg room in the WJ as opposed to the XJ? I definatly get tired durring long trips in that thing. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:27:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... is there a big difference btwn the pre-97 xj's and th newer ones? john On Sun, 22 Apr 2007, Don Hansen wrote: >-->I looked at ZJs a few years ago. I WANTED to like one. I hated them all. >-->END of story... >--> >-->WJ=Ooooooooooooooo............................................! >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: >-->Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 2:48 AM >-->Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... >--> >--> >-->> Ed, the '96 is a ZJ... they are NOT even close to being like a WJ... vast >-->> difference... >-->> >-->> We tested XJs, ZJs and WJs before buying our 2nd WJ. My wife would have >-->> gone with either an XJ or a WJ, but flat out rejected the ZJs we test >-->drove, >-->> and they were nice... >-->> >-->> The ZJ was from 1993 through 1998. I will say that I would consider a ZJ >-->before a WK, but >-->> have pretty much discounted the ZJ as an intrusion by Chrysler into the >-->world of Jeeps... they >-->> vindicated their goof with the WJ... the only drawback to the WJ is the >-->lack of visibility... >-->> otherwise they are superb, handle great and are reasonably economical, >-->compared to an SJ. :) >-->> >-->> The leg room in the WJ is acceptable... perhaps more than in a late model >-->XJ... I test >-->> drove a few late model XJs and noticed the lack of legroom... >-->> >-->> So, a '96 is NOT a WJ... check out a '99 to '05 WJ... you'll be >-->surprised... :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Sat, 21 Apr 2007, Ed Kummel wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->While I agree that the WJ has luxury up the wazzoo, I can't get used >-->to driving them. My Wife's 96 Limited has everything including the memory >-->and autodimming mirrors. but I can't get used to the variable ratio >-->steering, And the seats don't seem to fit me as well as the ones in my 89 >-->Wagoneer LTD. And is it my imagination, or is there considerably less leg >-->room in the WJ as opposed to the XJ? I definatly get tired durring long >-->trips in that thing. But my wife loves it just fine...I'll stick to my XJs >-->though... >-->> >-->Ed >-->> >-->web/gadget guru >-->> >--> >-->> >-->john wrote: On Sat, 21 Apr 2007, Don Hansen >-->wrote: >-->> >-->>-->Bought a 99 Grand Cherokee yesterday for the Queen. Only 76K >-->miles. EVERY >-->> >-->>-->option right down to seat warmers. It's only been a day, but now >-->I understand >-->> >-->>-->John's touting these things! SO much comfier than the XJ/SJ/ZJ. >-->> >-->>-->Female Logic Dept: The Queen wanted to get rid of the 2000 XJ >-->because, after >-->> >-->>-->driving our daughter's 96 XJ, she thought hers lacked a bit in the >-->performance >-->> >-->>-->department. She drives the WJ, also with a 4.0 and sez it has >-->better >-->> >-->>-->acceleration.... No, it doesn't, but I don't care, I'm WAY more >-->comfortable!! >-->> >--> >-->> >-->I'll concur with the 4.0L WJ out accelerating the XJ... my 4.0L WJ >-->was slightly >-->> >-->faster than my XJs. The WJ is way more comfortable than an XJ or >-->ZJ... not >-->> >-->100% sure about SJs, that depends on how you've got it set up. Most >-->WJs will be nicer >-->> >-->than an SJ though, more modern... more refined... ride will be >-->dependent on >-->> >-->tires though... By the time I get done with my '91 SJ the ride will >-->be fine... just >-->> >-->have to select the right springs, tires and shocks. :) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->The 4.7L V8 in the WJ will blow the doors off of most vehicles on the >-->road... amazing powerplant. >-->> >-->I still believe that the 4.7L driveline would be the ultimate (other >-->than a Diesel) >-->> >-->driveline in an SJ. Hmmm... I wonder if it would work in an XJ? >-->Should fit... biggest >-->> >-->issue with the 4.7L V8 on a refit is the computer systems... the >-->anti-theft system >-->> >-->is a pain... if you decide to get one make sure you get ALL of the >-->electronics and >-->> >-->original keys. There is a way of reprogramming the computer, heard >-->it's around $300. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Really love the WJ, one gets used to the limited visibility, it's >-->tolerable, but >-->> >-->am really looking forward to getting my '91 Grand Wagoneer back with >-->the 6.2L Diesel. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->We just completed another trip to South Dakota in the WJ... >-->> >--> >-->> >-->used 215.42 gallons, >-->> >-->costs $609.60 averaged $2.83/gal overal 16.45 mpg... >-->> >-->that was cruising at 75 mph through serious head winds across WY & MT >-->and snow storms in the >-->> >-->Rockies, heavy rain in Wyoming... best mileage was from Seattle to >-->> >-->Spokane, 21.04 mpg... just topped off the WJ at $3.18/gallon! yikes, >-->> >-->fuel was only $2.75 in South Dakota... interesting that the hi-test >-->(88 octane) >-->> >-->mid range fuel was less, but had 10% alcholol. Didn't go for it... >-->chicken. ;) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Speaking of birds... we got broadsided by a pheasant just past George >-->at the Gorge >-->> >-->(just prior to the Columbia River Gorge) we were doing about 73 mph... >-->there was >-->> >-->a feather stuck in the passenger side rear door and a greasy streak >-->across >-->> >-->the back side window... :( made a loud thump... I think there may be >-->a permanent >-->> >-->mark... I think the lights went out quickly for the bird... she had >-->to be going >-->> >-->at a pretty decent rate too... probably over 80mph impact... >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Hey, on the way back from South Dakota stopped to have the front >-->pinion seal >-->> >-->replaced on the WJ... the guy had an '89 Grand Wagoneer with a Vortec >-->5.3L V8 in it... >-->> >-->claims 16 mpg... he also had a customer with a '64 Studebaker... >-->> >--> >-->> >-->>-->http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/04-April-18-trip-Mitchell-RapidCity-SD/ >-->> >--> >-->> >-->next to last days road pix... (no "All.html" yet) >-->> >-->http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/04-April-19-trip-WY-MT/ >-->> >--> >-->> >-->haven't put any up from ID & WY on the last day... made them >-->smaller... not >-->> >-->exactly exciting pix, but show a lot of the countryside... it's >-->amazing >-->> >-->how much open space there really is in this country... To balance out >-->folks >-->> >-->I think everyone should take a ground trip from coast to coast at >-->least once. >-->> >-->Folks that are stuck in built up areas simply don't have a clue. :) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->time to do homework... >-->> >-->later, >-->> >-->john >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >--> ----- >-->> >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> >-->"The rule in Silicon Valley is that if Apple leaves the table smiling, >-->the other guy got screwed," >-->> >--> - Rob Enderle, independant analyst on the Apple/Cisco iPhone >-->lawsuit >-->> >--> >-->> >-->--------------------------------- >-->> >-->Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? >-->> >--> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ----- >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:08:19 -0500 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... Nice to know about the bushings. I plan to get a set of LCAs that have the bend in them to accomodate larger tires. Will have to upgrade the bushings. Mine ZJ has required almost no repairs in the 2.5 years of ownership. I plan to keep this jeep and build it up. 162K on it. Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Smith" Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:10:51 -0600 >Did the ZJ have optional variable ratio steering? I'm pretty sure >mine >doesn't. I had that in my 89 honda accord and I loved it, worked >really well. > >My ZJ has undergone a transformation since I purchased it a few >years >ago. Its a 97 and had 84k miles. Pretty good for a 7 year old >vehicle. So far its been nonstop maintenance, but its finally >getting >to a point where I feel like its mechanically solid, other than my >4L >starting to make new noises now. > >I changed all the control arm bushings, the tranny was rebuilt at >100k, now has OME springs and shocks, front disconnects, I yanked >the >rear swaybar.. had lots of irritations with oil leaks and tranny >leaks >but they also seem to have been resolved now. >all in all, most of the issues have been associated with the motor >and >tranny, the control arm bushings made a huge difference, apparently >on >the ZJ it has the same control arm bushings as a TJ but they are >"weakened" versions to make the ride "comfy".. mine now has the real >tj bushings instead. > >I guess all of the above can be expected for a ~130k maintenance, >the >42RE tranny is really a sad piece of machinery but can't do much >about >that now. > >> >> >-->While I agree that the WJ has luxury up the wazzoo, I can't >>get used to driving them. My Wife's 96 Limited has everything >>including the memory and autodimming mirrors. but I can't get used >>to the variable ratio steering, And the seats don't seem to fit me >>as well as the ones in my 89 Wagoneer LTD. And is it my >>imagination, or is there considerably less leg room in the WJ as >>opposed to the XJ? I definatly get tired durring long trips in that >>thing. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:11:15 -0500 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... I like the classic styling better and I think that the 97+ seem cheaper built. Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john Reply-To: xj-at-digest.net To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:27:02 -0700 (PDT) >is there a big difference btwn the pre-97 >xj's and th newer ones? > >john >On Sun, 22 Apr 2007, Don Hansen wrote: > > >-->I looked at ZJs a few years ago. I WANTED to like one. I hated them all. > >-->END of story... > >--> > >-->WJ=Ooooooooooooooo............................................! > >--> > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: "john" > >-->To: > >-->Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 2:48 AM > >-->Subject: Re: xj: from XJ to WJ... > >--> > >--> > >-->> Ed, the '96 is a ZJ... they are NOT even close to being like a WJ... vast > >-->> difference... > >-->> > >-->> We tested XJs, ZJs and WJs before buying our 2nd WJ. My wife would have > >-->> gone with either an XJ or a WJ, but flat out rejected the ZJs we test > >-->drove, > >-->> and they were nice... > >-->> > >-->> The ZJ was from 1993 through 1998. I will say that I would consider a ZJ > >-->before a WK, but > >-->> have pretty much discounted the ZJ as an intrusion by Chrysler into the > >-->world of Jeeps... they > >-->> vindicated their goof with the WJ... the only drawback to the WJ is the > >-->lack of visibility... > >-->> otherwise they are superb, handle great and are reasonably economical, > >-->compared to an SJ. :) > >-->> > >-->> The leg room in the WJ is acceptable... perhaps more than in a late model > >-->XJ... I test > >-->> drove a few late model XJs and noticed the lack of legroom... > >-->> > >-->> So, a '96 is NOT a WJ... check out a '99 to '05 WJ... you'll be > >-->surprised... :) > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> On Sat, 21 Apr 2007, Ed Kummel wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->While I agree that the WJ has luxury up the wazzoo, I can't get used > >-->to driving them. My Wife's 96 Limited has everything including the memory > >-->and autodimming mirrors. but I can't get used to the variable ratio > >-->steering, And the seats don't seem to fit me as well as the ones in my 89 > >-->Wagoneer LTD. And is it my imagination, or is there considerably less leg > >-->room in the WJ as opposed to the XJ? I definatly get tired durring long > >-->trips in that thing. But my wife loves it just fine...I'll stick to my XJs > >-->though... > >-->> >-->Ed > >-->> >-->web/gadget guru > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->john wrote: On Sat, 21 Apr 2007, Don Hansen > >-->wrote: > >-->> >-->>-->Bought a 99 Grand Cherokee yesterday for the Queen. Only 76K > >-->miles. EVERY > >-->> >-->>-->option right down to seat warmers. It's only been a day, but now > >-->I understand > >-->> >-->>-->John's touting these things! SO much comfier than the XJ/SJ/ZJ. > >-->> >-->>-->Female Logic Dept: The Queen wanted to get rid of the 2000 XJ > >-->because, after > >-->> >-->>-->driving our daughter's 96 XJ, she thought hers lacked a bit in the > >-->performance > >-->> >-->>-->department. She drives the WJ, also with a 4.0 and sez it has > >-->better > >-->> >-->>-->acceleration.... No, it doesn't, but I don't care, I'm WAY more > >-->comfortable!! > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->I'll concur with the 4.0L WJ out accelerating the XJ... my 4.0L WJ > >-->was slightly > >-->> >-->faster than my XJs. The WJ is way more comfortable than an XJ or > >-->ZJ... not > >-->> >-->100% sure about SJs, that depends on how you've got it set up. Most > >-->WJs will be nicer > >-->> >-->than an SJ though, more modern... more refined... ride will be > >-->dependent on > >-->> >-->tires though... By the time I get done with my '91 SJ the ride will > >-->be fine... just > >-->> >-->have to select the right springs, tires and shocks. :) > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->The 4.7L V8 in the WJ will blow the doors off of most vehicles on the > >-->road... amazing powerplant. > >-->> >-->I still believe that the 4.7L driveline would be the ultimate (other > >-->than a Diesel) > >-->> >-->driveline in an SJ. Hmmm... I wonder if it would work in an XJ? > >-->Should fit... biggest > >-->> >-->issue with the 4.7L V8 on a refit is the computer systems... the > >-->anti-theft system > >-->> >-->is a pain... if you decide to get one make sure you get ALL of the > >-->electronics and > >-->> >-->original keys. There is a way of reprogramming the computer, heard > >-->it's around $300. > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Really love the WJ, one gets used to the limited visibility, it's > >-->tolerable, but > >-->> >-->am really looking forward to getting my '91 Grand Wagoneer back with > >-->the 6.2L Diesel. > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->We just completed another trip to South Dakota in the WJ... > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->used 215.42 gallons, > >-->> >-->costs $609.60 averaged $2.83/gal overal 16.45 mpg... > >-->> >-->that was cruising at 75 mph through serious head winds across WY & MT > >-->and snow storms in the > >-->> >-->Rockies, heavy rain in Wyoming... best mileage was from Seattle to > >-->> >-->Spokane, 21.04 mpg... just topped off the WJ at $3.18/gallon! yikes, > >-->> >-->fuel was only $2.75 in South Dakota... interesting that the hi-test > >-->(88 octane) > >-->> >-->mid range fuel was less, but had 10% alcholol. Didn't go for it... > >-->chicken. ;) > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Speaking of birds... we got broadsided by a pheasant just past George > >-->at the Gorge > >-->> >-->(just prior to the Columbia River Gorge) we were doing about 73 mph... > >-->there was > >-->> >-->a feather stuck in the passenger side rear door and a greasy streak > >-->across > >-->> >-->the back side window... :( made a loud thump... I think there may be > >-->a permanent > >-->> >-->mark... I think the lights went out quickly for the bird... she had > >-->to be going > >-->> >-->at a pretty decent rate too... probably over 80mph impact... > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Hey, on the way back from South Dakota stopped to have the front > >-->pinion seal > >-->> >-->replaced on the WJ... the guy had an '89 Grand Wagoneer with a Vortec > >-->5.3L V8 in it... > >-->> >-->claims 16 mpg... he also had a customer with a '64 Studebaker... > >-->> >--> > >-->> > >-->>-->http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/04-April-18-trip-Mitchell-RapidCity-SD/ > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->next to last days road pix... (no "All.html" yet) > >-->> >-->http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/04-April-19-trip-WY-MT/ > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->haven't put any up from ID & WY on the last day... made them > >-->smaller... not > >-->> >-->exactly exciting pix, but show a lot of the countryside... it's > >-->amazing > >-->> >-->how much open space there really is in this country... To balance out > >-->folks > >-->> >-->I think everyone should take a ground trip from coast to coast at > >-->least once. > >-->> >-->Folks that are stuck in built up areas simply don't have a clue. :) > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->time to do homework... > >-->> >-->later, > >-->> >-->john > >-->> >--> > >-->> >--> > >-->> >--> > >-->> >--> ----- > >-->> >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-->> >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >-->> >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > >-->> >-->"The rule in Silicon Valley is that if Apple leaves the table smiling, > >-->the other guy got screwed," > >-->> >--> - Rob Enderle, independant analyst on the Apple/Cisco iPhone > >-->lawsuit > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->--------------------------------- > >-->> >-->Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > >-->> >--> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >-->> >--> > >-->> > >-->> ----- > >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >-->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--> > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2562 *************************