From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jan 2 10:12:59 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, January 2 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2717 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness xj: RE: Spring Shackle Reversal (fwd) RE: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness Re: xj: the last pictures of 2007... :) Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:34:21 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness yes, but if you disconnect the battery the car should keep running, wonder if his regulator isn't toast... I had a problem with batteries and alternators in my Diesel Benz, turns out the dome light switch had an intermittent short, would drain the battery every other week... but the alternator tested low... was a very expensive exercise on a mercedes... but all is ok now. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 1 Jan 2008, Jesse Barbieri wrote: # If a battery has too much internal resistence, it will cause the alternator # to work too hard and not be able to run the engine/electronics. Hope you # didn't burn out the alternator. # # # Jesse. # # # ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hansen" # To: # Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:35 PM # Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness # # # > Luddite.....! # > # > ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" # > To: # > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:12 PM # > Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness # > # > # > > my old '89 kept running w/o the battery, of course no computer... # > > # > > ----- # > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > there's a solution for every problem; # > > problem is can we afford the solution? # > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > # > > # > > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Don Hansen wrote: # > > # > > # More likely the crap battery. Even if the battery just dies and you # > > charge # > > # it just enough to start the engine, the voltage will be too low to # > > drive for # > > # a few minutes. You have to keep your foot on the gas to keep it # > > idling. # > > # Completely 'normal' for an XJ! (The words "normal" and "Jeep" should # > > never # > > # be used in the same sentence!!!!) # > > # # > > # # > > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" # > > # To: # > > # Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:11 PM # > > # Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness # > > # # > > # # > > # > that means your alt/reg isn't putting # > > # > out enough voltae perhaps? # > > # > # > > # > ----- # > > # # > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > > # # > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > # > there's a solution for every problem; # > > # > problem is can we afford the solution? # > > # # > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > # > # > > # > # > > # > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Don Hansen wrote: # > > # > # > > # > # If the voltage is too low, the computer doesn't # > > # > # work right and causes what you describe. # > > # > # # > > # > # -Don # > > # > # # > > # > # # > > # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Kummel" # > > # > # # > > # > # To: # > > # > # Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:31 AM # > > # > # Subject: xj: Bad battery weirdness # > > # > # # > > # > # # > > # > # > OK... # > > # > # > This (to me) seems very weird. # > > # > # > My 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited was having # > > # > # > battery problems. It # > > # > # > started and all, but I knew that it was dying # > > # > # > and most likely would not last the winter...I # > > # > # > had already planned for a replacement. But, then # > > # > # > this happened. # > > # > # > The battery died. So, I jumpstarted it. But it # > > # > # > wouldn't start. There was plenty of power, and # > > # > # > the engine turned over fine, but it just # > > # > # > wouldn't start. So I floored the gas peddle and # > > # > # > it started...it ran really rough but only ran # > > # > # > when I had the gas peddle pushed down. If I let # > > # > # > up on the gas, the engine died. # > > # > # > I was told by a friend who had the same problem # > > # > # > that he had the same problem and the dealer told # > > # > # > him he had a shorted cell in his battery. So, I # > > # > # > replaced the battery, and now things are perfect # > > # > # > once again. # > > # > # > So, my question is "huh?" # > > # > # > I know I've driven cars with *NO* battery in # > > # > # > them at all...since when is # > > # > # > a dead battery keeping an engine from running? # > > # > # > I guess I'm just weirded out that a bad battery # > > # > # > could keep the Jeep from running at all... # > > # > # > Weird, huh? # > > # > # > Ed # > > # > # > web/gadget guru # > > # > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > # # > > # > # > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > > # > # > "Man, you people make me want to go kick an # > > # > # > iMac." # > > # > # > - Response to a Mac FanBoy on the critical # > > # > # > Leopard "move" bug # > > # > # > # > > # > # > --------------------------------- # > > # > # > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all # > > # > # > with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. # > > # > # # > > # > # # > > # # > # > __________ NOD32 2758 (20071231) Information __________ # > # > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. # > http://www.eset.com # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:36:01 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: RE: Spring Shackle Reversal (fwd) I am amazingly confused, more so after reading the article... even with the simple pictures I didn't get it... but then again camber, caster and all that confuse me... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 1 Jan 2008, David Ashby wrote: # Correction - the shackles for the FRONT springs are at the REAR of the # spring, thus the shackle reversal. # # -----Original Message----- # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:10 PM # To: full size jeep list; David Ashby; xj-list # Subject: Spring Shackle Reversal (fwd) # # a friend bought a '56 Willys panel, someone put the springs on # with the shackle in the front... my friend is a mechanical engineer # and noticed it after he bought it... has been doing research on how # to fix it... links below, # here's the pix of his panel: # http://wagoneers.com/Willys/Dave-57-Willys-Panel/ # ----- # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # there's a solution for every problem; # problem is can we afford the solution? # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # ---------- Forwarded message ---------- # From: David Ashby # # Pro-Con Shackle Reversal: http://www.jeeptech.com/susp/elkcahs/ # # This in probably the best (least judgmental) explanation I have found so # far. # # Along with many other articles and opinions ;) # # http://www.thepartsbin.com/sitemap/jeep~shackle_inversion_kit~parts.html # # http://suzuki.off-road.com/suzuki/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=277568 # # http://www.extremegearoffroad.com/rubicon.htm # # http://www.explorerprocomp.com/PDFs/07cat/132.pdf # # http://www.rockymountainsusp.com/jeep_YJ.htm # # http://www.dc4wd.com/rubicon.htm # # http://4x4abc.com/4WD101/shackle_r.html # # # # So maybe I can get away with a long-travel front driveshaft with CV joint (I # need a new front shaft anyway) and firm (or adjustable) front shocks and the # caster will hopefully be okay as-is. # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:46:10 -0600 From: Allen Zylstra Subject: RE: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness We used to have a fleet of XJs (GSA government vehicles). Whenever one had a dead battery you would need to keep the engine revved to about 2K rpm for about 10 minutes before it would idle on its own. These were all 97-01 models. Replaced the battery in mom's LHS couple weeks ago. Strange electrical things like the blowe fan would run with the car off. New battery all was fine and the trans shifts better. The weak battery causes low voltages for the PCM and BCM turning the blower fan on and draining the battery. The PCM are sensitive to weak batteries. Allen> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:34:21 -0800> From: john-at-wagoneers.com> To: xj-at-digest.net> Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness> > yes, but if you disconnect the battery the car should keep running,> wonder if his regulator isn't toast...> > I had a problem with batteries and alternators in my Diesel Benz,> turns out the dome light switch had an intermittent short, would> drain the battery every other week... but the alternator tested> low... was a very expensive exercise on a mercedes... but all is ok now.> > john> > -----> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> there's a solution for every problem;> problem is can we afford the solution?> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > On Tue, 1 Jan 2008, Jesse Barbieri wrote:> > # If a battery has too much internal resistence, it will cause the alternator> # to work too hard and not be able to run the engine/electronics. Hope you> # didn't burn out the alternator.> # > # > # Jesse.> # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hansen" > # To: > # Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:35 PM> # Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness> # > # > # > Luddite.....!> # >> # > ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > # > To: > # > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:12 PM> # > Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness> # >> # >> # > > my old '89 kept running w/o the battery, of course no computer...> # > >> # > > -----> # > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> # > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> # > > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> # > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> # > > there's a solution for every problem;> # > > problem is can we afford the solution?> # > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> # > >> # > >> # > > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Don Hansen wrote:> # > >> # > > # More likely the crap battery. Even if the battery just dies and you > # > > charge> # > > # it just enough to start the engine, the voltage will be too low to > # > > drive for> # > > # a few minutes. You have to keep your foot on the gas to keep it > # > > idling.> # > > # Completely 'normal' for an XJ! (The words "normal" and "Jeep" should > # > > never> # > > # be used in the same sentence!!!!)> # > > #> # > > #> # > > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > # > > # To: > # > > # Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:11 PM> # > > # Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness> # > > #> # > > #> # > > # > that means your alt/reg isn't putting> # > > # > out enough voltae perhaps?> # > > # >> # > > # > -----> # > > # > # > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> # > > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> # > > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> # > > # > # > > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> # > > # > there's a solution for every problem;> # > > # > problem is can we afford the solution?> # > > # > # > > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> # > > # >> # > > # >> # > > # > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Don Hansen wrote:> # > > # >> # > > # > # If the voltage is too low, the computer doesn't> # > > # > # work right and causes what you describe.> # > > # > #> # > > # > # -Don> # > > # > #> # > > # > #> # > > # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Kummel"> # > > # > # > # > > # > # To: > # > > # > # Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:31 AM> # > > # > # Subject: xj: Bad battery weirdness> # > > # > #> # > > # > #> # > > # > # > OK...> # > > # > # > This (to me) seems very weird.> # > > # > # > My 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited was having> # > > # > # > battery problems. It> # > > # > # > started and all, but I knew that it was dying> # > > # > # > and most likely would not last the winter...I> # > > # > # > had already planned for a replacement. But, then> # > > # > # > this happened.> # > > # > # > The battery died. So, I jumpstarted it. But it> # > > # > # > wouldn't start. There was plenty of power, and> # > > # > # > the engine turned over fine, but it just> # > > # > # > wouldn't start. So I floored the gas peddle and> # > > # > # > it started...it ran really rough but only ran> # > > # > # > when I had the gas peddle pushed down. If I let> # > > # > # > up on the gas, the engine died.> # > > # > # > I was told by a friend who had the same problem> # > > # > # > that he had the same problem and the dealer told> # > > # > # > him he had a shorted cell in his battery. So, I> # > > # > # > replaced the battery, and now things are perfect> # > > # > # > once again.> # > > # > # > So, my question is "huh?"> # > > # > # > I know I've driven cars with *NO* battery in> # > > # > # > them at all...since when is> # > > # > # > a dead battery keeping an engine from running?> # > > # > # > I guess I'm just weirded out that a bad battery> # > > # > # > could keep the Jeep from running at all...> # > > # > # > Weird, huh?> # > > # > # > Ed> # > > # > # > web/gadget guru> # > > # > # >> # > > # > # >> # > > # > #> # > > # > > # > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------> # > > # > # > "Man, you people make me want to go kick an> # > > # > # > iMac."> # > > # > # > - Response to a Mac FanBoy on the critical> # > > # > # > Leopard "move" bug> # > > # > # >> # > > # > # > ---------------------------------> # > > # > # > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all> # > > # > # > with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> # > > # > #> # > > # > #> # > > #> # >> # > __________ NOD32 2758 (20071231) Information __________> # >> # > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> # > http://www.eset.com> # > # _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:03:38 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: xj: the last pictures of 2007... :) I got to see some of that snow up close and personal yesterday. My son Bill, his GF Christina and I went to the cabin to unload my trailer full of parts into the "rolling shed" ('70 IH Loadstar flatbed with a 17' enclosure ) My MJ struggled through the 1 foot deep (was 3 feet of powder till it warmed up last week) stiff snow but I decided not to chance the driveway all the way up. (man do I wish I'd had time to finish the swap to 4x4!) I had the J4000 (also 2wd) and '83 J10 (that shortbox I got thanks to John) to get me unstuck if needed (didn't think about it till afterwards, but I'd already walked the rest of the driveway by that point) Now that the trailer is empty, when the snow disappears some more (snow line is receding above that level and it's currently raining) I'll be able to pull alongside my Ford flatbed and empty all the brush from it and load the rest from the trees we cut down last time. Once the trucks are moved, I'll be able to drop the rest of the dangerous trees (Cottonwoods, Aspens and a couple aimed at neighbor's places that I don't want to be responsible for if something happens) Once the area is clear, we'll get the well drilling truck in (after getting the necessary permit) and move the shop closer to the cabin with the concrete slabs put down for the driveway and floor. (driveway was bad today, but it gets even worse when it's raining although it's passable with my MJ as long as I don't stop!)) Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 From: john Subject: xj: the last pictures of 2007... :) the sun was out... snow on the mountains (right where it belongs)... _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:07:37 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness What also happens is the voltage drops on the higher output alternators at low RPM, (modern alts are Delta wound for higher output which requires higher RPM to increase amperage output) then the regulator cuts out and the vehicle shuts off. Loose fanbelt can also cause issues like stalling (The one in my MJ was doing that till I readjusted it) Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 From: "Jesse Barbieri" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Bad battery weirdness If a battery has too much internal resistence, it will cause the alternator to work too hard and not be able to run the engine/electronics. Hope you didn't burn out the alternator. Jesse. _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2717 *************************