From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jan 11 21:28:25 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Saturday, January 12 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2724 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:50:26 -0600 From: "David Smith" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps not sure what sense it makes to use a 'fusible link' a simple relay with some logic would do the job.. actually you could do this all with relays but its probably more difficult than it has to be. On 1/9/08, Ed Kummel wrote: > > When I was first learning to drive, I took the family Oldsmobile out on a > date. Unfortunatly, I left the lights on (it was a 1972 Cutlass) which > killed the battery. Not a big problem because I had jumper cables. > Unfortunatly, they didn't work for some reason. After my date called to say > she will be late coming home, I called my dad and after the requisit 30 > minute a$$ chewing for being so stupid, he called a tow company which towed > the car to a local repair shop. > They found that the fusable link wire had fried, They said that this > *sometimes* happens when a vehicle is jumpstarted...which lessened the level > of stupidity on me from my dad. > Later when I inheritted the car, I remembered this little lesson and > utilized it by putting in a hidden underdash switch. Flipping the switch on > it's own didn't do anything...but if you turned on the highbeams that > triggered a relay which the switch then reversed the connections for the > fusable link and disabled the vehicle. You re-enabled the fusable link the > same way by turning on the highbeams and flipping the switch in the other > direction...flipping the toggle towards the front of the car is "go" and > towards the back of the car is "no-go" > Super simple and yet impossible to defeat unless you knew the correct > sequence of events! > Ed > web/gadget guru > > David Smith wrote: > too bad your link is myspace -- it'd be much easier if we could see > those > pics without creating an account or whatever. > > with the kind of thefts these are, i wonder if the xj had an alarm > installed? > > some people don't believe in alarms, i have an alarm on my zj, personally > i > know how easy it is to defeat (I've had to do it myself), but the little > blinky light seems to serve more as a deterrent than anything.. thieves > move > on to vehicles without. > > on that note i have a fairly high quality alarm installed, a clifford with > two-way remote. it has starter cut, etc, again its not hard to bypass due > to the installation location, but at least it doesnt go off every time a > big > truck/noisy vehicle drives by, which is the major downfall of most cheap > alarms ive ever seen. > > the whole punch in a code idea is a really neat anti-vehicle theft idea, > especially if well implemented. i've thought of making my own, where the > control pad has no actual wiring that has to do with the ignition but > instead communicates with a real module under the hood or elsewhere that > can > conveniently relay-off an important wire somewhere. > > my 2c > > On 1/8/08, Jesse Barbieri wrote: > > > > Believe it or not, my 1990 BMW 325IX has an onboard computer which I can > > select a code, and have to type it in before I can start the > > engine. Three > > wrong entries will cut the fuel pump and sound the horn. I don't know > > exactly when they first utilized this computer, but I did see one in a > > 1986 > > 325. Also, I can change the code each time after I start the engine. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "Man, you people make me want to go kick an iMac." > - Response to a Mac FanBoy on the critical Leopard "move" bug > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:10:54 -0600 From: "David Smith" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps i've got about 8 beers down and had about an hour and a half to play. http://www.mypchelp.com/auto1.GIF this works as stated with an exception. you turn off your hidden switch and the system is deactivated. including your vehicle, if thats what you want it for. once you've turned on your hidden switch and flipped the hibeam switch once, your vehicle is active. (and the circuit) one downfall to my design, once you activate the system, there are two relays that are always on. if either fails, your vehicle is disabled, might be smart to know where they are and add a bypass switch under the hood? it would also be clever for your +12 volt hidden switch to only be on when the vehicle is on, that way when you turn it off, all the relays are turned off and therefore the vehicle is automatically disabled. otherwise if you made the switch always on, you'd have to flip it off to disable the vehicle. On 1/10/08, john wrote: > > got a schematic? > > :) > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: > > # They found that the fusable link wire had fried, They said that this > *sometimes* happens when a vehicle is jumpstarted...which lessened the level > of stupidity on me from my dad. > # Later when I inheritted the car, I remembered this little lesson and > utilized it by putting in a hidden underdash switch. Flipping the switch on > it's own didn't do anything...but if you turned on the highbeams that > triggered a relay which the switch then reversed the connections for the > fusable link and disabled the vehicle. You re-enabled the fusable link the > same way by turning on the highbeams and flipping the switch in the other > direction...flipping the toggle towards the front of the car is "go" and > towards the back of the car is "no-go" > # Super simple and yet impossible to defeat unless you knew the correct > sequence of events! > # Ed > # web/gadget guru ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:57:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Wow...I was going to attempt to find my old notebook (stashed away from several moves and 30 years of being lost) but that design seems to be pretty close to what I had. Although I only remember using 2 relays (I had a few spare foglight relays from helping a buddy install lights on his truck) but your design seems to be better. Less chance of things going wrong... Ed web/gadget guru David Smith wrote: i've got about 8 beers down and had about an hour and a half to play. http://www.mypchelp.com/auto1.GIF this works as stated with an exception. you turn off your hidden switch and the system is deactivated. including your vehicle, if thats what you want it for. once you've turned on your hidden switch and flipped the hibeam switch once, your vehicle is active. (and the circuit) one downfall to my design, once you activate the system, there are two relays that are always on. if either fails, your vehicle is disabled, might be smart to know where they are and add a bypass switch under the hood? it would also be clever for your +12 volt hidden switch to only be on when the vehicle is on, that way when you turn it off, all the relays are turned off and therefore the vehicle is automatically disabled. otherwise if you made the switch always on, you'd have to flip it off to disable the vehicle. On 1/10/08, john wrote: > > got a schematic? > > :) > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: > > # They found that the fusable link wire had fried, They said that this > *sometimes* happens when a vehicle is jumpstarted...which lessened the level > of stupidity on me from my dad. > # Later when I inheritted the car, I remembered this little lesson and > utilized it by putting in a hidden underdash switch. Flipping the switch on > it's own didn't do anything...but if you turned on the highbeams that > triggered a relay which the switch then reversed the connections for the > fusable link and disabled the vehicle. You re-enabled the fusable link the > same way by turning on the highbeams and flipping the switch in the other > direction...flipping the toggle towards the front of the car is "go" and > towards the back of the car is "no-go" > # Super simple and yet impossible to defeat unless you knew the correct > sequence of events! > # Ed > # web/gadget guru - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Man, you people make me want to go kick an iMac." - Response to a Mac FanBoy on the critical Leopard "move" bug - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:04:50 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps aren't relays designated by a K? it's been almost 20 years since did circuit design... wow... it's been that long???? ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hn Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: # Wow...I was going to attempt to find my old notebook (stashed away from several moves and 30 years of being lost) but that design seems to be pretty close to what I had. Although I only remember using 2 relays (I had a few spare foglight relays from helping a buddy install lights on his truck) but your design seems to be better. Less chance of things going wrong... # Ed # web/gadget guru # # David Smith wrote: # i've got about 8 beers down and had about an hour and a half to play. # # http://www.mypchelp.com/auto1.GIF # # this works as stated with an exception. you turn off your hidden switch and # the system is deactivated. including your vehicle, if thats what you want # it for. # # once you've turned on your hidden switch and flipped the hibeam switch once, # your vehicle is active. (and the circuit) # # one downfall to my design, once you activate the system, there are two # relays that are always on. if either fails, your vehicle is disabled, might # be smart to know where they are and add a bypass switch under the hood? # # it would also be clever for your +12 volt hidden switch to only be on when # the vehicle is on, that way when you turn it off, all the relays are turned # off and therefore the vehicle is automatically disabled. otherwise if you # made the switch always on, you'd have to flip it off to disable the vehicle. # # # On 1/10/08, john wrote: # > # > got a schematic? # > # > :) # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > there's a solution for every problem; # > problem is can we afford the solution? # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: # > # > # They found that the fusable link wire had fried, They said that this # > *sometimes* happens when a vehicle is jumpstarted...which lessened the level # > of stupidity on me from my dad. # > # Later when I inheritted the car, I remembered this little lesson and # > utilized it by putting in a hidden underdash switch. Flipping the switch on # > it's own didn't do anything...but if you turned on the highbeams that # > triggered a relay which the switch then reversed the connections for the # > fusable link and disabled the vehicle. You re-enabled the fusable link the # > same way by turning on the highbeams and flipping the switch in the other # > direction...flipping the toggle towards the front of the car is "go" and # > towards the back of the car is "no-go" # > # Super simple and yet impossible to defeat unless you knew the correct # > sequence of events! # > # Ed # > # web/gadget guru # # # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # "Man, you people make me want to go kick an iMac." # - Response to a Mac FanBoy on the critical Leopard "move" bug # # --------------------------------- # Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:18:06 -0600 From: "David Smith" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps heh :) i was feeling creative last night. another pitfall i thought of, the hidden switch has to pass enough current to power two relay coils, really shouldnt be an issue. i'd assume that whatever wire you choose to "disable/enable" the vehicle would be less than an amp of current anyway, if chosen well, and that way you could use three fairly small relays. also hadn't thought about it until after, but the way this thing is set up, if you were to use a hidden switch that was only on when the vehicle is powered on, then lets say you left the switch in the on position, blink your hibeams and off you go to the store. you get to the store, turn off the car but leave the switch in the on position. upon returning to your vehicle, turn the key to on position, then blink the hibeams to enable.. the whole hibeam blip in itself would probably be enough to befuddle any robber anyway ;) On 1/11/08, Ed Kummel wrote: > > Wow...I was going to attempt to find my old notebook (stashed away from > several moves and 30 years of being lost) but that design seems to be pretty > close to what I had. Although I only remember using 2 relays (I had a few > spare foglight relays from helping a buddy install lights on his truck) but > your design seems to be better. Less chance of things going wrong... > Ed > web/gadget guru ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:21:20 -0600 From: "David Smith" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps mmm not sure. SPDT = single pole double throw On 1/11/08, john wrote: > > aren't relays designated by a K? > > it's been almost 20 years since did circuit design... wow... it's been > that > long???? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:27:46 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: preventing theft of our jeeps Yeah, mu buddies at the time called it the "secret handshake". Saying that my car won't start up unless you knew the secret handshake... I will tell you this though...You can't have any level of alcohol in you in order to get it to work right (not that I would know first hand, you know...) You truely need to know what you're doiing in order to start the vehicle. It reminds me of a VW Beetle a neigbor friend had...on the floor just beneath the rear seat cushion, het had a switch...and on the dash, he had three rotary knobs that had numbers on them and there was a light. The light would glow if the swtich beneath the rear seat was flipped, then you "dialed in" the *secret* combination and flipped a momentary switch that replaced the ignition key. Once started, you quickly rotated the knobs to obsfucate the *secret* combination. To shut the engine down, you flipped the switch beneath the rear seat in the other direction...the engine died when the glowing light went out...We use that car to deliver news papers...what a pain that was remembering to do all the steps in the right order. Ed web/gadget guru David Smith wrote: heh :) i was feeling creative last night. another pitfall i thought of, the hidden switch has to pass enough current to power two relay coils, really shouldnt be an issue. i'd assume that whatever wire you choose to "disable/enable" the vehicle would be less than an amp of current anyway, if chosen well, and that way you could use three fairly small relays. also hadn't thought about it until after, but the way this thing is set up, if you were to use a hidden switch that was only on when the vehicle is powered on, then lets say you left the switch in the on position, blink your hibeams and off you go to the store. you get to the store, turn off the car but leave the switch in the on position. upon returning to your vehicle, turn the key to on position, then blink the hibeams to enable.. the whole hibeam blip in itself would probably be enough to befuddle any robber anyway ;) On 1/11/08, Ed Kummel wrote: > > Wow...I was going to attempt to find my old notebook (stashed away from > several moves and 30 years of being lost) but that design seems to be pretty > close to what I had. Although I only remember using 2 relays (I had a few > spare foglight relays from helping a buddy install lights on his truck) but > your design seems to be better. Less chance of things going wrong... > Ed > web/gadget guru - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Man, you people make me want to go kick an iMac." - Response to a Mac FanBoy on the critical Leopard "move" bug - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2724 *************************