From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Feb 12 10:16:37 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Tuesday, February 12 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2738 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" xj: they've lost their minds... xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:52:35 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" I said replace the main leaf with another NEW one. (keep the old main leaf, but cut the eyes off it) With the added weight you have of the diesel, you won't see much height gain (even less if you put an aftermarket front bumper and winch on) AFAIK, no-one has determined the correct spring rates to go with the diesel powerplant you installed. The Panhard bars need to go away. Don't forget with the body lift you already have stretched the front brake hoses quite a bit unless the brackets were moved to the frame (Chev hoses are longer than Jeep, but the axles are wider too) Couldn't get me to run Rauncho 5000 shocks. I like having my teeth still! I have done several lifts reusing the stock mains and a new leaf added. (after market add a leaf are only good for extreme weight handling) Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:38:55 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: brent-at-bjsoffroad.com; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; FParker24-at-verizon.net; xj-at-digest.net; fsjparts-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" > > jim, > > remember, the PRIME OBJECTIVES: 1) clear the oil pan and exhaust on the axles > 2) provide a stock ride or better > 3) not have to modify panhard bars or brakes. > 4) not spend a day in gravel and mud messing with used parts > 5) not looking for elevation, already have 3" of body lift > > I've done the used spring thing before, it took all day of laying springs all over my driveway, > grease and dirt everywhere... when I got all done I barely saw 2" of lift and > then it wasn't as planned... > > it took WAY more time than just installing brand new springs. > > see, I've done it before... > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/J10-poormans-lift/ALL.html > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/poor-man-lift-calculations.html > > I did this 8 years ago... it's worth it to just buy the ones with > the correct spring rate already figured out.. > > > Now, if you want to come over and do it for me, be happy to pay you... :) > > Otherwise, I'm considering one of these as options: either the 2" or 4". > > I want a nice ride, to overcome the sag by the weight and age, running 235's, > might go to 30x9.5s or even 31x10.5s. most likely will stay with the 235s, the > Diesel seems fine with that size and they'll ride just fine... > > The 2" kit is preferred, no brake work, should get the arch back into things > and work fine with the 3" of body lift... > > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=524&cid=14 > BJ's 2-inch lift springs with u-bolts. This is perfect for someone who wants to put their Full-Size Jeep at the height the factory should put on them. Stock shocks and brakelines will work with this kit. > > or > > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=488&cid=14 > BJ's Off-Road Custom 4-inch Suspension System. Our Suspension System is All-Spring with NO BLOCKS! Impress your friends, clear more obstacles, and make your rig look like it SHOULD have from the factory! You'll be amazed at how comfortable the ride is and how much better your off-road performance will be! > Fits: 1976-1991 > # Models: All > # 4 New Leaf Springs (No Blocks) > # New Grade 8 U-Bolts and Hardware > # Braided Stainless Steel Extended Brakelines With Factory Fittings Included (unless otherwise noted) > # Shocks Included (Rancho or Pro Comp -- Rancho Shocks Include Shock Boots) > # Very Comfortable, Soft Ride > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:58:56 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: they've lost their minds... ebay has lost their collective minds... and my business... they sent out a $1 listing fee for ebay motors, great, I'll put the '67 panel back up... then I read the fine print: it used to be $40 to list, another $50 if you sold... or 90 bucks NOW it's $1 to list, and 109.00 in fees for a total of 110 bucks!!! Category Insertion Fee Transaction Services Fee Total Fees* Insertion Fee Transaction Services Fee Total Fees* Cars & Trucks $40.00 $50.00 $90.00 $1.00 $109.00 $110.00 Autotrader is something like $40 to list until you sell... http://mygofast.com/ is FREE. Craigslist is FREE. farewell ebay... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:07:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" believe it or not the 6.2L Diesel is not that much more than an AMC V8. Haven't got the specs handy, but the AMC V8s are not light weight engines at all... it might be 150lbs more... not sure... but the back end is sagging equally, with the aux tank and about 15 gallons of Diesel... might be the difference in the engines... of course this wag was sagging before... would have to look at the pictures from before to see if there is increased sag... so, Jim, where does one get a new set of main springs and how much are they? I have a feeling a complete lift kit will be about the same... but surprise me... then I have to rewrap the springs and replace the u-bolts... might not be that bad... especially if you come over and help. ;) but then I still have old bushings and pads... an no, the panhard bars don't need to go away, brake lines were adjusted already. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 10 Feb 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # I said replace the main leaf with another NEW one. (keep the old main leaf, but cut the eyes off it) With the added weight you have of the diesel, you won't see much height gain (even less if you put an aftermarket front bumper and winch on) AFAIK, no-one has determined the correct spring rates to go with the diesel powerplant you installed. The Panhard bars need to go away. Don't forget with the body lift you already have stretched the front brake hoses quite a bit unless the brackets were moved to the frame (Chev hoses are longer than Jeep, but the axles are wider too) # # Couldn't get me to run Rauncho 5000 shocks. I like having my teeth still! I have done several lifts reusing the stock mains and a new leaf added. (after market add a leaf are only good for extreme weight handling) # # Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) # # > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:38:55 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: brent-at-bjsoffroad.com; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; FParker24-at-verizon.net; xj-at-digest.net; fsjparts-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" # > # > jim, # > # > remember, the PRIME OBJECTIVES: 1) clear the oil pan and exhaust on the axles # > 2) provide a stock ride or better # > 3) not have to modify panhard bars or brakes. # > 4) not spend a day in gravel and mud messing with used parts # > 5) not looking for elevation, already have 3" of body lift # > # > I've done the used spring thing before, it took all day of laying springs all over my driveway, # > grease and dirt everywhere... when I got all done I barely saw 2" of lift and # > then it wasn't as planned... # > # > it took WAY more time than just installing brand new springs. # > # > see, I've done it before... # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/J10-poormans-lift/ALL.html # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/poor-man-lift-calculations.html # > # > I did this 8 years ago... it's worth it to just buy the ones with # > the correct spring rate already figured out.. # > # > # > Now, if you want to come over and do it for me, be happy to pay you... :) # > # > Otherwise, I'm considering one of these as options: either the 2" or 4". # > # > I want a nice ride, to overcome the sag by the weight and age, running 235's, # > might go to 30x9.5s or even 31x10.5s. most likely will stay with the 235s, the # > Diesel seems fine with that size and they'll ride just fine... # > # > The 2" kit is preferred, no brake work, should get the arch back into things # > and work fine with the 3" of body lift... # > # > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=524&cid=14 # > BJ's 2-inch lift springs with u-bolts. This is perfect for someone who wants to put their Full-Size Jeep at the height the factory should put on them. Stock shocks and brakelines will work with this kit. # > # > or # > # > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=488&cid=14 # > BJ's Off-Road Custom 4-inch Suspension System. Our Suspension System is All-Spring with NO BLOCKS! Impress your friends, clear more obstacles, and make your rig look like it SHOULD have from the factory! You'll be amazed at how comfortable the ride is and how much better your off-road performance will be! # > Fits: 1976-1991 # > # Models: All # > # 4 New Leaf Springs (No Blocks) # > # New Grade 8 U-Bolts and Hardware # > # Braided Stainless Steel Extended Brakelines With Factory Fittings Included (unless otherwise noted) # > # Shocks Included (Rancho or Pro Comp -- Rancho Shocks Include Shock Boots) # > # Very Comfortable, Soft Ride # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > there's a solution for every problem; # > problem is can we afford the solution? # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # _________________________________________________________________ # Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. # http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:11:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" ah yes... the last line... exactly what I was looking for, you made me work for it, but I have my answer.... :) # that 2" springs yields almost 3" but it is very very nice.... almost a caddillac ride that's the endorsement I was seeking... will take to brent to see if he confirms. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 11 Feb 2008, michel balea wrote: # # # I did the add a leaf in the front before Moab... in 07, because BJs 2" springs were back ordered, very very hard... so for your diesel could be good.' # # the add a leaf... sticks forward of the shackle... so after hitting a few boulders heads on... the main leaf snapped.... the local junk yard had a wagoneer.... # # then did my usual summer rides..... very very stiff, almost unbearable (i rebuilt that junkyard spring, waiting for BJs 2") i had to lower air pressure to 26, usually 30 was enough.... BJ's 2" was installed in November.... that 2" springs yields almost 3" but it is very very nice.... almost a caddillac ride # # Cheers # # Michel # 74wag # # # > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:38:55 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: brent-at-bjsoffroad.com; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; FParker24-at-verizon.net; xj-at-digest.net; fsjparts-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" # > # > jim, # > # > remember, the PRIME OBJECTIVES: 1) clear the oil pan and exhaust on the axles # > 2) provide a stock ride or better # > 3) not have to modify panhard bars or brakes. # > 4) not spend a day in gravel and mud messing with used parts # > 5) not looking for elevation, already have 3" of body lift # > # > I've done the used spring thing before, it took all day of laying springs all over my driveway, # > grease and dirt everywhere... when I got all done I barely saw 2" of lift and # > then it wasn't as planned... # > # > it took WAY more time than just installing brand new springs. # > # > see, I've done it before... # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/J10-poormans-lift/ALL.html # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/poor-man-lift-calculations.html # > # > I did this 8 years ago... it's worth it to just buy the ones with # > the correct spring rate already figured out.. # > # > # > Now, if you want to come over and do it for me, be happy to pay you... :) # > # > Otherwise, I'm considering one of these as options: either the 2" or 4". # > # > I want a nice ride, to overcome the sag by the weight and age, running 235's, # > might go to 30x9.5s or even 31x10.5s. most likely will stay with the 235s, the # > Diesel seems fine with that size and they'll ride just fine... # > # > The 2" kit is preferred, no brake work, should get the arch back into things # > and work fine with the 3" of body lift... # > # > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=524&cid=14 # > BJ's 2-inch lift springs with u-bolts. This is perfect for someone who wants to put their Full-Size Jeep at the height the factory should put on them. Stock shocks and brakelines will work with this kit. # > # > or # > # > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=488&cid=14 # > BJ's Off-Road Custom 4-inch Suspension System. Our Suspension System is All-Spring with NO BLOCKS! Impress your friends, clear more obstacles, and make your rig look like it SHOULD have from the factory! You'll be amazed at how comfortable the ride is and how much better your off-road performance will be! # > Fits: 1976-1991 # > # Models: All # > # 4 New Leaf Springs (No Blocks) # > # New Grade 8 U-Bolts and Hardware # > # Braided Stainless Steel Extended Brakelines With Factory Fittings Included (unless otherwise noted) # > # Shocks Included (Rancho or Pro Comp -- Rancho Shocks Include Shock Boots) # > # Very Comfortable, Soft Ride # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > there's a solution for every problem; # > problem is can we afford the solution? # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # _________________________________________________________________ # Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". # http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:16:00 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" I've gone as much as 4" of lift without bump steer on SJs. bigger issue for me was getting vibrations out of the driveline from the angle... trans mount went soft, and I didn't have the right shims in the back axle. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, michel balea wrote: # # # # just looked at your exhaust picts, i can see your issues, you could remove the suspension stabilizer (the single arm atttached to the top of the axle... sorry forgot the name) I do not have on on the 74, and on the 85 i never put it back after doing the RMS. # # The only thing to watch out after the 2"(3") lift is to recheck to toe.... I had a slight bump steer.... and after talking to one of my FSJ friends, he said... recheck your toe.... i had a toe out of about 1/2".... back to toe-in and no apparent bump steer. Of course looking at my tie rod, i could use a drop pitman arm....If we want the geometry to be perfect. # # Michel # # > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:11:29 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com # > CC: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; brent-at-bjsoffroad.com; abcvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; fparker24-at-verizon.net; xj-at-digest.net; fsjparts-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" # > # > ah yes... the last line... exactly what I was looking for, you made # > me work for it, but I have my answer.... :) # > # > # that 2" springs yields almost 3" but it is very very nice.... almost a # > caddillac ride # > # > that's the endorsement I was seeking... will take to brent to see if he # > confirms. # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > there's a solution for every problem; # > problem is can we afford the solution? # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Mon, 11 Feb 2008, michel balea wrote: # > # > # # > # # > # I did the add a leaf in the front before Moab... in 07, because BJs 2" # > springs were back ordered, very very hard... so for your diesel could be # > good.' # > # # > # the add a leaf... sticks forward of the shackle... so after hitting a few # > boulders heads on... the main leaf snapped.... the local junk yard had a # > wagoneer.... # > # # > # then did my usual summer rides..... very very stiff, almost unbearable (i # > rebuilt that junkyard spring, waiting for BJs 2") i had to lower air pressure # > to 26, usually 30 was enough.... BJ's 2" was installed in November.... that 2" # > springs yields almost 3" but it is very very nice.... almost a caddillac ride # > # # > # Cheers # > # # > # Michel # > # 74wag # > # # > # # > # > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:38:55 -0800 # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > # > CC: brent-at-bjsoffroad.com; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; # > FParker24-at-verizon.net; xj-at-digest.net; fsjparts-at-yahoogroups.com; # > fsj-at-digest.net # > # > Subject: RE: fsj: best riding lift? 2" or 4" # > # > # > # > jim, # > # > # > # > remember, the PRIME OBJECTIVES: 1) clear the oil pan and exhaust on the # > axles # > # > 2) provide a stock ride or better # > # > 3) not have to modify panhard bars or brakes. # > # > 4) not spend a day in gravel and mud messing with used parts # > # > 5) not looking for elevation, already have 3" of body lift # > # > # > # > I've done the used spring thing before, it took all day of laying springs # > all over my driveway, # > # > grease and dirt everywhere... when I got all done I barely saw 2" of lift # > and # > # > then it wasn't as planned... # > # > # > # > it took WAY more time than just installing brand new springs. # > # > # > # > see, I've done it before... # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/J10-poormans-lift/ALL.html # > # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/poor-man-lift-calculations.html # > # > # > # > I did this 8 years ago... it's worth it to just buy the ones with # > # > the correct spring rate already figured out.. # > # > # > # > # > # > Now, if you want to come over and do it for me, be happy to pay you... # > :) # > # > # > # > Otherwise, I'm considering one of these as options: either the 2" or # > 4". # > # > # > # > I want a nice ride, to overcome the sag by the weight and age, running # > 235's, # > # > might go to 30x9.5s or even 31x10.5s. most likely will stay with the # > 235s, the # > # > Diesel seems fine with that size and they'll ride just fine... # > # > # > # > The 2" kit is preferred, no brake work, should get the arch back into # > things # > # > and work fine with the 3" of body lift... # > # > # > # > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=524&cid=14 # > # > BJ's 2-inch lift springs with u-bolts. This is perfect for someone who # > wants to put their Full-Size Jeep at the height the factory should put on # > them. Stock shocks and brakelines will work with this kit. # > # > # > # > or # > # > # > # > http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=488&cid=14 # > # > BJ's Off-Road Custom 4-inch Suspension System. Our Suspension System is # > All-Spring with NO BLOCKS! Impress your friends, clear more obstacles, and # > make your rig look like it SHOULD have from the factory! You'll be amazed at # > how comfortable the ride is and how much better your off-road performance will # > be! # > # > Fits: 1976-1991 # > # > # Models: All # > # > # 4 New Leaf Springs (No Blocks) # > # > # New Grade 8 U-Bolts and Hardware # > # > # Braided Stainless Steel Extended Brakelines With Factory Fittings # > Included (unless otherwise noted) # > # > # Shocks Included (Rancho or Pro Comp -- Rancho Shocks Include Shock # > Boots) # > # > # Very Comfortable, Soft Ride # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > there's a solution for every problem; # > # > problem is can we afford the solution? # > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your # > "fix". # > # http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx # # _________________________________________________________________ # Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. # http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2738 *************************