From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 9 09:42:41 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, May 9 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2793 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Oil in the air filter? xj: RE: fsj: Re: NP242 Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: NP242 Re: xj: nice catch... Re: xj: nice catch... xj: homemade fuel? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:00:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Oil in the air filter? the Diesel trick is right up there with pouring water into a running engine to remove carbon deposits... :) these are tricks one learned in the '60s that still work... :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 8 May 2008, David Bierschank wrote: # Sounds like a pretty complete list to me. :-} # # Thanks for the to-do list and the Diesel tip, I had not heard that one. # David # # On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:52 PM, john wrote: # # > it could have been that they ran pennsylvannia based oil like quaker # > state, pennzoil or valvoline through it... that stuff makes for nasty # > insides. # > # > one trick to cleaning an engine safely is to run a quart of Diesel in # > the crankcase for about 30 minutes... I wouldn't put it under load as # > you won't have a lot of shear strength and viscosity will be reduced. # > # > when you go to pull the oil pan, if this is the first time, you'll # > have to overcome the glue job from the factory... get a deadblow or # > large rubber hammer... jack up the xj so the front wheels drop... # > loosen and remove the bolts and wail away... the oil pump setup hangs # > down on the passenger side... be careful when wailing from the passenger # > side. :) # > # > while you're in there... replace the rear main seal if it hasn't # > been done recently... or ever. # > # > check your timing chain and front seal, also your harmonic balancer... # > # > how old is your CPS? # > # > lube zirk fittings... wash and wax the underside... am I forgetting # > anything? ;) # > # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Thu, 8 May 2008, David Bierschank wrote: # > # > # Thanks for the help guys...... I have got the valve cover removed. # > # There is an amazing amount of "sludge" & grime inside the valve cover. # > I am # > # cleaning out everything I can in the top part of the motor by hand, and # > then # > # will run some type of engine flush system, to clean what I can not get # > to by # > # hand. I also plan on dropping the pan and cleaning it up as well. # > # # > # I think this is a testament to the quality of the I-6 4.0L. I don't # > # understand how this thing was even functional with all this junk inside. # > # Apparently someone did not do a very good job of staying on top of oil # > # changes. # > # # > # Anyone have any products to suggest for cleaning up the mess inside the # > # engine? IE Seafoam and others. Good or bad experiences to share? # > # # > # Thanks again for the help and suggestions so far. # > # # > # David # > # # > # On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Jim Blair wrote: # > # # > # > I cleaned out a spare valve cover and did the swap easier that way (it # > was # > # > clogged inside) # > # > # > # > # > # > From: "David Bierschank" # > # > Subject: xj: Oil in the air filter? # > # > # > # > Advice needed. This is on an 87 XJ with 4.0L with about 160,000+ # > miles. # > # > When I bought this Jeep a few years ago it had some oil showing up on # > the # > # > air filter. After some research, at the time I found that I probably # > need # > # > the ccv kit. I bought and installed the kit and have not had an # > trouble # > # > for # > # > several years. # > # > # > # > Then this weekend the Jeep started smoking and dripping oil. I looked # > # > around and found the oil was coming from the air box. There is a lot # > of # > # > oil # > # > coming through the hose that enters the back of the air box, from the # > front # > # > of the valve cover. I put my finger inside the valve cover and there # > is a # > # > lot of "sludge" inside the cover. I pulled the CCV system off and # > cleaned # > # > it up and reinstalled, with no change. I did some looking around the # > net # > # > and it sounds like I may need to replace the cover, due to the the PCV # > is # > # > actually made into the cover. Is this correct? or do I just need to # > remove # > # > a clean the junk from inside the cover? One article also talks about # > # > cleaning the return passages in the head. How many passages? and # > where are # > # > the passages located? (near which cylinders?) Should I replace the # > CCV # > # > system again, or just clean it up again? # > # > # > # > Also, do any of you recommend using some type of "gunk" remover, to # > try and # > # > clean out the system in the places I can not reach with just removing # > the # > # > valve cover? I bought this with 145000 on it and now it appears that # > the # > # > previous owner did not do a good job staying on top of the oil # > changes. I # > # > am hoping to get thinks cleaned up, because the engine feels like it # > has a # > # > lot left to give. # > # > # > # > Thanks for the help. I am just wanting to figure out what I need # > before I # > # > go see my friendly Jeep dealer. # > # > # > # > - -- # > # > David Bierschank # > # > Okiebinder # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > # > With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. # > # > # > # > # > http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mob # > # > ile_052008 # > # > # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 22:43:50 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: RE: fsj: Re: NP242 The NP208 is shorter than the others because it has no viscous coupler, so the rear 1/2 is -at-5" shorter. I have a nice stout Ford NP208F with fixed yoke that I would adapt into a diesel setup (if I had one) exactly... I don't recall if my Np208 is the same size as the np219 and np228 either... nice thing about all of the fsj xfr cases is they are NOT slip yoke. ;) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 8 May 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # Then you shouldn't need to mess with the driveshafts at least! # _________________________________________________________________ Get Free (PRODUCT) RED^Y Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics. http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 23:02:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: NP242 interesting, that means I could have had a longer driveshaft...good to know. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 8 May 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # The NP208 is shorter than the others because it has no viscous coupler, so the # rear 1/2 is -at-5" shorter. I have a nice stout Ford NP208F with fixed yoke that # I would adapt into a diesel setup (if I had one) # # # # exactly... I don't recall if my Np208 is the same size as # the np219 and np228 either... # # nice thing about all of the fsj xfr cases is they are NOT slip yoke. ;) # # ----- # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Thu, 8 May 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # # Then you shouldn't need to mess with the driveshafts at least! # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Get Free (PRODUCT) RED^Y Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics. # http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008 # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:58:35 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: xj: nice catch... So, the clunking when turning right got alot worse yesterday, it clunks everytime I turn at slow speeds. I had a good look at that bracket last night and its definately it, I can see where the bolthead has been moving : http://srigley.powweb.com/picupload/d/263-1/sheared+bolt+on+cherokee+suspension.jpg Since this is missing its bolt head, will that make it easier to turn/extract? I was thinking it might be easier to drill it and extract (altho there isn't a whole load of room there for a drill due to various suspension pieces running underneath it). I'm assuming the nut its in is captive? If its not captive, it might be easier to remove the bolt above it so I can get a socket on it I suppose.. In other news.. borrowed a boat + outboard engine yesterday eve for a joyride ;-) http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/srigley/08BoatOffWoodquay/photo?authkey=ryWNj0VPYGI#5198142816660123954 Steve On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Stephen Rigley wrote: > Yup, its the same so, but the other way round (if you get what I mean.. it > attaches to driver's side frame on the RHD model) > You see the bracket here : > http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJ-trackbar/P7300028.JPG > The lower half of one of the two bolts vertical bolts sheared off sometime > in the past.. > Best replace ASAP I guess ;-) > Thanks for the pics! > Steve > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:18 PM, john wrote: > >> no, it's the panhard/track bar, attaches to the frame on the driver's side >> (US spec) >> and the other side to the axle near where the coil mounts. It keeps the >> front axle >> aligned with the frame. >> >> http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/Steering/xj-steering-labeled.jpg >> >> http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xj-trackbar-mount.jpg >> >> http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJ-trackbar/ >> >> ----- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> On Fri, 2 May 2008, Stephen Rigley wrote: >> >> # track bar as in the anti-roll bar? Yeah, I noticed I'll be needing a >> couple >> # of bushes for that too :-( >> # Its getting like a rolling restoration.. >> # Steve >> # >> # On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 5:01 PM, john wrote: >> # >> # > wow... I had a clunking like that on one of my xj's that >> # > resulted in the "wobble-o-death", or "death-wobble". The track >> # > bar bushing had failed... resulting in terrifying wobble at >> # > freeway speeds... will nearly make you wet yourself... >> # > >> # > on the earlier xj's the bracket would actually get loose on the >> frame. >> # > >> # > around '87 or so they strengthened them, and by the early '90s the >> # > design was such that they were using better components and later >> models >> # > seemed more immune to the problem. >> # > >> # > I've only experienced it a couple of times on an '85... it was >> enough >> # > to last a lifetime... :) >> # > >> # > john >> # > >> # > ----- >> # > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/** >> # > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> # > >> # > >> # > On Fri, 2 May 2008, Stephen Rigley wrote: >> # > >> # > # So, I went out to the Heep ('95 2.5TD) last night and changed the >> crush >> # > # washers on the turbo oil feed line in a vain attempt to stop the >> # > overnight >> # > # oil drip. I've been having a bit of a "clunk" when turning left >> then >> # > right >> # > # so lay underneath the front of the Heep and checked out the >> # > bushings/ball >> # > # joints/power steering pump bolts on the frame, then noticed the >> engine >> # > mount >> # > # bolts.. all four on one side were "just" hanging in there.. I >> could >> # > # literally screw each of them in a quarter inch!!! >> # > # That could have been nasty... >> # > # >> # > # Steve >> # > # >> # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:25:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: nice catch... should be pretty easy (relatively speaking) to fix that... drilling and extracting might work, if you drop the bracket you might get lucky with a vise grip... soak it with a penetratant or brake fluid, even a little heat from a propane torch might help... how come my bolts never break off in such a convenient location... I mean you can see it! that's great! ;) I hope you removed the jeep before launching... :) (looking at the first picture. ;) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 9 May 2008, Stephen Rigley wrote: # So, the clunking when turning right got alot worse yesterday, it clunks # everytime I turn at slow speeds. # I had a good look at that bracket last night and its definately it, I can # see where the bolthead has been moving : # http://srigley.powweb.com/picupload/d/263-1/sheared+bolt+on+cherokee+suspension.jpg # # Since this is missing its bolt head, will that make it easier to # turn/extract? I was thinking it might be easier to drill it and extract # (altho there isn't a whole load of room there for a drill due to various # suspension pieces running underneath it). I'm assuming the nut its in is # captive? If its not captive, it might be easier to remove the bolt above it # so I can get a socket on it I suppose.. # # In other news.. borrowed a boat + outboard engine yesterday eve for a # joyride ;-) # http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/srigley/08BoatOffWoodquay/photo?authkey=ryWNj0VPYGI#5198142816660123954 # # Steve # # On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Stephen Rigley wrote: # # > Yup, its the same so, but the other way round (if you get what I mean.. it # > attaches to driver's side frame on the RHD model) # > You see the bracket here : # > http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJ-trackbar/P7300028.JPG # > The lower half of one of the two bolts vertical bolts sheared off sometime # > in the past.. # > Best replace ASAP I guess ;-) # > Thanks for the pics! # > Steve # > # > # > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:18 PM, john wrote: # > # >> no, it's the panhard/track bar, attaches to the frame on the driver's side # >> (US spec) # >> and the other side to the axle near where the coil mounts. It keeps the # >> front axle # >> aligned with the frame. # >> # >> http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/Steering/xj-steering-labeled.jpg # >> # >> http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/xj-trackbar-mount.jpg # >> # >> http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJ-trackbar/ # >> # >> ----- # >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # >> http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # >> # >> # >> On Fri, 2 May 2008, Stephen Rigley wrote: # >> # >> # track bar as in the anti-roll bar? Yeah, I noticed I'll be needing a # >> couple # >> # of bushes for that too :-( # >> # Its getting like a rolling restoration.. # >> # Steve # >> # # >> # On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 5:01 PM, john wrote: # >> # # >> # > wow... I had a clunking like that on one of my xj's that # >> # > resulted in the "wobble-o-death", or "death-wobble". The track # >> # > bar bushing had failed... resulting in terrifying wobble at # >> # > freeway speeds... will nearly make you wet yourself... # >> # > # >> # > on the earlier xj's the bracket would actually get loose on the # >> frame. # >> # > # >> # > around '87 or so they strengthened them, and by the early '90s the # >> # > design was such that they were using better components and later # >> models # >> # > seemed more immune to the problem. # >> # > # >> # > I've only experienced it a couple of times on an '85... it was # >> enough # >> # > to last a lifetime... :) # >> # > # >> # > john # >> # > # >> # > ----- # >> # > # >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # >> # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # >> # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/** # >> # > # >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # >> # > # >> # > # >> # > On Fri, 2 May 2008, Stephen Rigley wrote: # >> # > # >> # > # So, I went out to the Heep ('95 2.5TD) last night and changed the # >> crush # >> # > # washers on the turbo oil feed line in a vain attempt to stop the # >> # > overnight # >> # > # oil drip. I've been having a bit of a "clunk" when turning left # >> then # >> # > right # >> # > # so lay underneath the front of the Heep and checked out the # >> # > bushings/ball # >> # > # joints/power steering pump bolts on the frame, then noticed the # >> engine # >> # > mount # >> # > # bolts.. all four on one side were "just" hanging in there.. I # >> could # >> # > # literally screw each of them in a quarter inch!!! # >> # > # That could have been nasty... # >> # > # # >> # > # Steve # >> # > # # >> # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:42:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: homemade fuel? this looks interesting.... maybe I'll sell my Diesel/WVO/bioDiesel powered Grand Wagoneer for a SmartCar and start making my own ethanol. ;) (yeah, right...) well... maybe... ;) or maybe I should get a Diesel SmartCar... how do they do in snow? ;) anyway, excerpts from: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-science/20080508/SCIENCE-ETHANOL-HOMEMADE-DC/print/ Kick the oil habit with a make-your-own ethanol kit By Timothy Gardner, Reuters Thu May 8, 6:00 PM EDT ... E-Fuel Corp unveiled on Thursday the "MicroFueler" touting it as the world's first machine that allows homeowners to make their own ethanol .... The portable unit that sells for $10,000 resembles a gasoline station pump and nozzle -- .... Instead of tapping gasoline from an underground tank, the pump's back end plugs into home power and water supplies to make ethanol for as little as $1 a gallon (3.8 liters) .... That means it avoids the Achilles heel of today's U.S. ethanol system -- reliance on corn -- which has been blamed for helping to spike global food prices. .... "There's no mother in America crying that their kids aren't getting enough sugar,"... .... Regular table sugar alone is too expensive, so E-Fuels says it will link customers to cheaper surplus supplies, including inedible sugar from Mexico that sells at a fraction of the price... ...For a two-car family that drives about 34,500 miles a year, the MicroFueler will pay for itself in less than two years, assuming average gasoline prices of $3.60 per gallon, the company said. The unit makes up to 35 gallons (132 liters) of 100 percent ethanol per week. ... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2793 *************************