From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 24 19:56:49 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, June 25 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2817 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: RE: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? xj: Re: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? xj: the boise trip, return leg... xj: RE: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? xj: weight info XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:37:11 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: RE: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? Make sure you get a solid front axle! The TTB (Twin Traction Beam, sort of a scissored axle) doesn't seem to do too well with the twisting power of the diesel engines. Some early years (up to '91 IIRC) had issues with frame cracking (at least the E series vans did. My buddy up in Chilliwack BC had it happen to the van I swapped the motor from into a '91) Ford also changed from the IH series diesels (6.9 and 7.3L) to their own Powerstroke. Turbo and non-turbo models make a price/fuel economy difference. The E4OD transmission (auto overdrive) has issues, mostly fixable with a computer update by a shop knowledgeable in them (like Sea-Tac transmission here in S Seattle) After I did the motor swap (which I plan to NOT do again in a van!) I brought the van down to them and they dialed it in (fuel economy coming down was 17 mpg and going back it was closer to 25) The Power Stroke setup is computer controlled and the earlier IH motor was mostly mechanical (for simplicity) I didn't know about the differences when I started the swap. Luckily they were both IH motors. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:05:38 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: > Subject: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? > > when I was in boise I saw a ford f250 extended cab > with a short box... it didn't look like a freight train... > not sure of the wheelbase or width... but was wondering > if anyone knew anything about the Diesels in the Fords from > say '90 and up... looked on craigslist and saw a large > range of prices... > > my Diesel Grand Wagoneer project is almost there... a/c > cruise and vibration issue... but when I'm there I still > have an old vehicle with body damage and will continue > to experience the legacy of AMC quality. :) > > if an F250 has decent ride and quality, and good economy > with the Diesel... I'd consider selling both the Grand Cherokee > and the Grand Wagoneer and just having an F250 4x4 Diesel and > my '91 300D. > > so now, let's hear the horror stories of the ford Diesels and suspension... :) > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i^Rm Talkathon. http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:28:24 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: xj: Re: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? Until the new super duties came out (1999), there was no such thing as a factory diesel F-250 with a straight axle. The main problem with the twin traction beam is that most alignment shops cannot figure out how to align them properly. They also came from the factory undersprung for the diesels, and there is a documented fix for that which not a lot of owners did. The powerstroke is still an international engine. 1994.5 was the start of the first generation powerstroke. It gained an intercooler for 1999 and the ZF five speed was replaced by a ZF six speed, and the 1999.5 model year had a change to the turbo that netted a little more power. Having an aftermarket turbo doesn't appreciably raise the price of the truck for resale. The 1993 turbo diesel was a (basically) one year only turbo added to the 7.3IDI (with a few internal changes as well) to hold over until the direct injected powerstroke was available. On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 09:37:11AM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > Make sure you get a solid front axle! The TTB (Twin Traction Beam, sort of a > scissored axle) doesn't seem to do too well with the twisting power of the > diesel engines. Some early years (up to '91 IIRC) had issues with frame > cracking (at least the E series vans did. My buddy up in Chilliwack BC had it > happen to the van I swapped the motor from into a '91) Ford also changed from > the IH series diesels (6.9 and 7.3L) to their own Powerstroke. Turbo and > non-turbo models make a price/fuel economy difference. > The E4OD transmission (auto overdrive) has issues, mostly fixable with a > computer update by a shop knowledgeable in them (like Sea-Tac transmission > here in S Seattle) After I did the motor swap (which I plan to NOT do again in > a van!) I brought the van down to them and they dialed it in (fuel economy > coming down was 17 mpg and going back it was closer to 25) > The Power Stroke setup is computer controlled and the earlier IH motor was > mostly mechanical (for simplicity) I didn't know about the differences when I > started the swap. Luckily they were both IH motors. > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:05:38 -0700 > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > To: > > Subject: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? > > > > when I was in boise I saw a ford f250 extended cab > > with a short box... it didn't look like a freight train... > > not sure of the wheelbase or width... but was wondering > > if anyone knew anything about the Diesels in the Fords from > > say '90 and up... looked on craigslist and saw a large > > range of prices... > > > > my Diesel Grand Wagoneer project is almost there... a/c > > cruise and vibration issue... but when I'm there I still > > have an old vehicle with body damage and will continue > > to experience the legacy of AMC quality. :) > > > > if an F250 has decent ride and quality, and good economy > > with the Diesel... I'd consider selling both the Grand Cherokee > > and the Grand Wagoneer and just having an F250 4x4 Diesel and > > my '91 300D. > > > > so now, let's hear the horror stories of the ford Diesels and suspension... > :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:51:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: the boise trip, return leg... here's the links to the snapshots from boise. http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-20-Boise-Bogus-Basin-n-birds/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-20-Boise-Bogus-Basin-n-birds/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-20-Boise-to-Pendleton/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-20-Boise-to-Pendleton/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Pendleton-to-Yakima/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Pendleton-to-Yakima/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Yakima-to-Snohomish/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Yakima-to-Snohomish/ALL.html some pix from here: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-21-Snohomish-Garden/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-22-garden-snohomish-benz-jeep/ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:32:50 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: RE: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? It must be the F350 I'm thinking of then (with Dana 60 front) It's currently the most sought after axle upgrade by most 4wheelers. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:28:24 -0700 > From: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: john-at-wagoneers.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? > > Until the new super duties came out (1999), there was no such thing as a > factory diesel F-250 with a straight axle. The main problem with the > twin traction beam is that most alignment shops cannot figure out how to align > them properly. They also came from the factory undersprung for the diesels, > and there is a documented fix for that which not a lot of owners did. > > The powerstroke is still an international engine. 1994.5 was the start of the > first generation powerstroke. It gained an intercooler for 1999 and the ZF > five speed was replaced by a ZF six speed, and the 1999.5 model year had a > change to the turbo that netted a little more power. > > Having an aftermarket turbo doesn't appreciably raise the price of the truck > for resale. The 1993 turbo diesel was a (basically) one year only turbo added > to the 7.3IDI (with a few internal changes as well) to hold over until the > direct injected powerstroke was available. > > On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 09:37:11AM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > > Make sure you get a solid front axle! The TTB (Twin Traction Beam, sort of a > > scissored axle) doesn't seem to do too well with the twisting power of the > > diesel engines. Some early years (up to '91 IIRC) had issues with frame > > cracking (at least the E series vans did. My buddy up in Chilliwack BC had it > > happen to the van I swapped the motor from into a '91) Ford also changed from > > the IH series diesels (6.9 and 7.3L) to their own Powerstroke. Turbo and > > non-turbo models make a price/fuel economy difference. > > The E4OD transmission (auto overdrive) has issues, mostly fixable with a > > computer update by a shop knowledgeable in them (like Sea-Tac transmission > > here in S Seattle) After I did the motor swap (which I plan to NOT do again in > > a van!) I brought the van down to them and they dialed it in (fuel economy > > coming down was 17 mpg and going back it was closer to 25) > > The Power Stroke setup is computer controlled and the earlier IH motor was > > mostly mechanical (for simplicity) I didn't know about the differences when I > > started the swap. Luckily they were both IH motors. > > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:05:38 -0700 > > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > > To: > > > Subject: fsj: F250 Diesel 4x4? > > > > > > when I was in boise I saw a ford f250 extended cab > > > with a short box... it didn't look like a freight train... > > > not sure of the wheelbase or width... but was wondering > > > if anyone knew anything about the Diesels in the Fords from > > > say '90 and up... looked on craigslist and saw a large > > > range of prices... > > > > > > my Diesel Grand Wagoneer project is almost there... a/c > > > cruise and vibration issue... but when I'm there I still > > > have an old vehicle with body damage and will continue > > > to experience the legacy of AMC quality. :) > > > > > > if an F250 has decent ride and quality, and good economy > > > with the Diesel... I'd consider selling both the Grand Cherokee > > > and the Grand Wagoneer and just having an F250 4x4 Diesel and > > > my '91 300D. > > > > > > so now, let's hear the horror stories of the ford Diesels and suspension... > > :) _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ Refresh_messenger_062008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:55:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: weight info was looking up how much a yard of gravel weighed and found this website: http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra2.html Density of gravel A cubic foot of dry, loose gravel with 1/4" to 2" stones is 105 pounds per cubic foot. So, a cubic yard is that times 27, or 2835 lb. (There are 27 cubic feet in a cubic yard.) So, when I haul two yards of gravel in my J10 hydraulic dump trailer that weighs 2,000lbs empty, I'm hauling 7,760 lbs... either behind my '91 Grand Wagoneer or '99 Grand Cherokee... the GW weighs about 5,600lbs... the GC about 3,950. No wonder the GC groans and creaks coming down the driveway... let's see... 5,600+7,760=13,270lbs or over 6.6 tons... I don't think I want to drive very far with that kind of weight... I think I need to fix my surge brake controller. :) that raccoon I hit with just the grand wagoneer didn't like the 5,600lbs much, first tire made a bit of jolt, second tire was barely a ripple... what is amazing is that the grand wagoneer actually got 24 mpg on the freeway... got to love those Diesels. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2817 *************************