From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 28 20:24:33 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Tuesday, July 29 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2840 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ xj: RE: Re: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Re: RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ xj: omega XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:41:12 -0400 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ The door locks, radio and lighter are the same fuse, IIRC.... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN)" To: Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:23 AM Subject: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ > Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... > > 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power > is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved > in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply > of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power > door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this > just a coincidence..?? > > Thanks, Bill-93XJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:49:30 -0400 From: "Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN)" Subject: xj: RE: Re: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Muchas gracias..... Now, any idea where that bad boy (fuse) is located....?? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Don Hansen Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:41 AM To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: xj: Re: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ The door locks, radio and lighter are the same fuse, IIRC.... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN)" To: Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:23 AM Subject: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ > Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... > > 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power > is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved > in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply > of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power > door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this > just a coincidence..?? > > Thanks, Bill-93XJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:43:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ page 13 shows a 30a circuit breaker providing power to the locks http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/WIRING_2.pdf the power distribution center is on the right front fender... but I would check corrision on ALL of the fuses and clean ALL of the grounds... just loosening, spraying contact cleaner and retightening ground connections should help. http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/ john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN) wrote: # Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... # # 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power # is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved # in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply # of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power # door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this # just a coincidence..?? # # Thanks, Bill-93XJ # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:44:27 -0400 From: "Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN)" Subject: RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Thanks guys! I went out on my morning break and found it! The culprit was FUSE #9 (10A)in the fuse block under the dash by the driver side kick panel. This is the one with the annoying buzzer that lets you know the door is ajar. Turned out to be loose. Did not even have to buy an new fuse. John, your manuals in the tech section of wagoneers.com are what got me looking in the right direction. Funny, the other month I cleaned and reseated all the fuses and relays in the power dist block in the engine compartment. I 'ass'umed that the ones inside would be ok because it was a protected environment....... I lost that bet... THANKS - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:44 AM To: xj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ page 13 shows a 30a circuit breaker providing power to the locks http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/WIRING_2.pdf the power distribution center is on the right front fender... but I would check corrision on ALL of the fuses and clean ALL of the grounds... just loosening, spraying contact cleaner and retightening ground connections should help. http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/ john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN) wrote: # Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... # # 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power # is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved # in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply # of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power # door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this # just a coincidence..?? # # Thanks, Bill-93XJ # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:57:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ corrosion is the first thing I look for when troubleshooting electronics... learned my lesson the hard way as a crypto tech in the army... spent a lot of time chasing changing symptoms late at night and into the wee small hours... first thing I do now is check power supplies, grounds and clean ALL the contacts... 99% of the time the problem will clear while doing those tests... the other 1% of the time there is usually visible evidence of smoke, or charred remains, or an open fuse. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN) wrote: # Thanks guys! I went out on my morning break and found it! The culprit # was FUSE #9 (10A)in the fuse block under the dash by the driver side # kick panel. This is the one with the annoying buzzer that lets you know # the door is ajar. # # Turned out to be loose. Did not even have to buy an new fuse. John, # your manuals in the tech section of wagoneers.com are what got me # looking in the right direction. Funny, the other month I cleaned and # reseated all the fuses and relays in the power dist block in the engine # compartment. I 'ass'umed that the ones inside would be ok because it # was a protected environment....... I lost that bet... # # THANKS # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:44 AM # To: xj-at-digest.net # Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ # # page 13 shows a 30a circuit breaker providing power to the locks # http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/WIRING_2.pdf # # # the power distribution center is on the right front fender... # # but I would check corrision on ALL of the fuses and clean ALL of # the grounds... just loosening, spraying contact cleaner and retightening # ground connections should help. # # http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/ # # # john # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # # # On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN) wrote: # # # Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... # # # # 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally # power # # is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations # saved # # in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no # supply # # of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the # power # # door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is # this # # just a coincidence..?? # # # # Thanks, Bill-93XJ # # # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:11:20 -0400 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ John, John, John... It's a 93. Fuses under dash above driver's left foot! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:43 AM Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ > page 13 shows a 30a circuit breaker providing power to the locks > http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/WIRING_2.pdf > > > the power distribution center is on the right front fender... > > but I would check corrision on ALL of the fuses and clean ALL of > the grounds... just loosening, spraying contact cleaner and retightening > ground connections should help. > > http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/ > > > john > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN) wrote: > > # Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... > # > # 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power > # is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved > # in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply > # of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power > # door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this > # just a coincidence..?? > # > # Thanks, Bill-93XJ > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ the power distribution center is under the hood, with another fuse panel under the dash... :) even my '91 or was it a '92??? it was an HO... had a PDC under the hood as well as the fuse panel under the dash... have the wiring harness laying loose, I can prove it. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Don Hansen wrote: # John, John, John... It's a 93. Fuses under dash above driver's left foot! # # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" # To: # Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:43 AM # Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ # # # > page 13 shows a 30a circuit breaker providing power to the locks # > http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/WIRING_2.pdf # > # > # > the power distribution center is on the right front fender... # > # > but I would check corrision on ALL of the fuses and clean ALL of # > the grounds... just loosening, spraying contact cleaner and retightening # > ground connections should help. # > # > http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/93-shop/ # > # > # > john # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN) wrote: # > # > # Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... # > # # > # 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power # > # is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved # > # in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply # > # of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power # > # door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this # > # just a coincidence..?? # > # # > # Thanks, Bill-93XJ # > # # # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:47:36 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ That's how my 93 is... On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:52:04AM -0700, john wrote: > the power distribution center is under the hood, with another > fuse panel under the dash... :) > > even my '91 or was it a '92??? it was an HO... had a PDC under the > hood as well as the fuse panel under the dash... > > have the wiring harness laying loose, I can prove it. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:08:34 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ That generally means the ground is bad or the acc fuse is blown. From: "Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN)" Subject: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this just a coincidence..?? Thanks, Bill-93XJ _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fami ly_safety_072008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:16:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ I'm thinking with you... ground issues... corrosion and ground, always an issue... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # That generally means the ground is bad or the acc fuse is blown. # # # From: "Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN)" # Subject: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ # # Question for all the XJ wiring gurus.... # # 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, normally power # is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data (stations saved # in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply # of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power # door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or is this # just a coincidence..?? # # Thanks, Bill-93XJ # # _________________________________________________________________ # Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. # http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fami # ly_safety_072008 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 02:37:58 +0000 (GMT) From: barbierij-at-optonline.net Subject: Re: RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ Yes, these are on the same connection.Jesse.----- Original Message -----From: Jim Blair Date: Monday, July 28, 2008 10:09 pmSubject: RE: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJTo: xj-at-digest.net> That generally means the ground is bad or the acc fuse is blown.> > > From: "Daugherty, Bill W (E F PR GN)"> Subject: xj: Wiring Gremlin .... 93 XJ> > Question for all the XJ wiring gurus....> > 1993 XJ with all the power options. As I understand it, > normally power> is always supplied to the radio so that the stored data > (stations saved> in memory) will be saved. When I turn the key off, there is no supply> of power and the memories are lost. Another symptom is that the power> door locks are not funtional. Are these two circuits related or > is this> just a coincidence..??> > Thanks, Bill-93XJ> > _________________________________________________________________> Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.> http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fami> ly_safety_072008> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:23:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: omega found a blazer with 6.5L TD that I'm thinking about getting... did some math on Omega... on paper my best guess is that I have about $12,000 invested!!! Yikes. Thinking about selling Omega now that I have everything working except the cruise control. (what better time to sell when there are no issues!!! Hurry up and buy it before it needs something. ;) My reasons for going with the Blazer over the Grand Wagoneer is that the 6.5L TD is a quieter and better integrated into the chassis. We're spoiled by my Mercedes Diesel, :) While this is about the closest one could get to a stock setup, it's still not what I expect. Omega is doing fine but it's not quite to the level of comfort that I wanted. Swaps and conversions never are and I didn't really enter this project expecting perfection. Actually, this thing turned out way better than I envisioned. I kind of stumbled into this project when I got the '91 Grand Wagoneer... I've decided I want something stock, Diesel, and 4x4, the Blazer meets that criteria. This way I won't have to work on it if I don't want to. Will be able to go into a parts store and not have to remember if it's an '83 GMC 3/4 Ton, '91 Grand Wagoneer, '92 XJ, '99 WJ or a 1985 VW. :) Taking a custom Grand Wagoneer in for work requires special effort... most shops and mechanics barely understand a Grand Wagoneer, let alone a custom one. :) That means that I have to fix things myself... I prefer to have the option of not doing that. :) It's not that it's impossible to have serviced, because it's not... one must remember to tell the shop what is what and then all goes quite well. :) Anyway, my math tallied up well over 12K invested over the last seven years of parts gathering and recent work. The '91 Grand Wagoneer has a new radiator, new engine/trans mounts, custom 3" exhaust, new driveshafts, new ring and pinion, new tires, new transmission, dual tanks (40 to 44 gallon capacity), functioning air conditioning, leather seats, power windows, factory sunroof, alarm system with remote access, professionally tinted glass, minimal body damage, NO rust, trailer hitch, MP3/CD player with Sony speakers, and prepped for cruise control... has an engine and trans oil cooler, completely Amsoil synthetic front to rear... somewhere in the 16 to 18 mpg in town, 23.75 on the freeway (in Western Washington... NOT level ground!). It isn't the easiest Diesel to start, windshield has some pits, minor damage on right side, a few fuel leaks remain, carpeting could use attention, but otherwise it's great... As always, I fear the Grand Wagoneer tailgate, but in the two years I've owned this one I've not had a bit of trouble. I'm trying to figure out how to price and sell this... ideas? thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2840 *************************