From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Sep 12 05:24:52 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, September 12 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2867 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: [db] electric motors xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: xj: Re: Stuck bearing... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] electric motors ah yes, well then, come on over I need help upgrading the snohomish monster garage, picked up five free 24' long trusses!!! :) and it's NOT raining today! yee haw... but first, will those wj seats fit in my 124 series 300D? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Why would I give money to "stop" you from building more vehicles? # This entertainment is free!!!!!! # # ;) # # Jim # # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: # # > From: john # > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors # > To: "Jim Hoffman" # > Cc: "diesel-benz list" # > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 12:44 PM # > my we should just take a donation and I can go and buy a new # > factory # > Diesel equipped 4x4 that isn't as big as a barge, long # > as a freight train # > and has an automatic and heated leather seats... and a/c of # > course... ;) # > # > otherwise, keep the popcorn handy... :) # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't # > rust, they mold # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: # > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # > http://wagoneers.com # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # # > # > or maybe someone willing to trade an Automatic # > 300GD for my # > # > '83 J10 Stepside # > # > and save me the trouble of building another Diesel # > powered # > # > rig. :) # > # # > # Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know about # > everyone else but "I" # > # think it's a little late for that!!! # > # # > # ;) # > # # > # Jim # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil wrong, when Mobil1 came out in the LATE 70's it was a synthesized hydrocarbon, reformulated dino oil... I remember reading about it and buying it... I may still have the articles... if you can help me find them in my office. ;) They talked about making oil better... it wasn't designed initially for extended drain intervals. One advantage they found was they needed fewer VI extenders, (viscosity index improvers - used to make oil consistent over wider temps... typically this breaks down quickly and you end up with a heavier oil in the crankcase... it also can be bad in a Diesel, that's why 10w40 is not to be used in most Diesels... the vi improvers deposit on the rings causing damage...) Mobil1 didn't go to a true synthetic base (polyol or dibasic acid esthers) until a few years ago... Castrol didn't come out with one until even later... I don't know the exact date, but can make a call and find out if it's important. ;) none of the petro companies synthetics were formulated for extended drain intervals. but regardless, any synthesized/reformulated hydrocarbon, or true synthetic made from synthetic base stock, is better than dino oil, mainly for the reason that Mobil1 promoted in the late '70s, uniform molecular size... it permits better filtration and even lubrication... in addition the synthetics tend to have an electrical attraction to metal and "cling", reducing startup wear and even providing lubrication if you lose your oil pan or filter... my '80 Olds with a 5.7L Diesel was driven 2 miles up hill with NO oil in the crankcase and survived because of this princple! My wife was dropping the kids off at a neighbor's and something at the construction site there came up and smacked the oil filter, drained the pan... I've heard numerous stories about amsoil customers losing a radiator and driving hundreds of miles to get home with only the oil as a coolant... synthetics and bioDiesel... a cure for the common oilwell syndrome. ;) the base stock for synthetics typically come from corn or soybeans but can also be made from coal or other stuff, including petroleum... the main benefit of amsoil is the extended oil drain... 35,000 miles! I've gone over 20,000 miles on both gas and Diesel, and had oil analysis confirm that I could have gone longer!!! saving money is the motivation... ease of maintenance another... and protection against failure of cooling or lube systems is another... then there is the "green" factor... saving oil and fuel... it's ALL good! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # Originally Mobil 1 was a true synthetic, but after Castrol came out with the modified Hydrocarbon from natural base oil, there was a lawsuit about the definition of synthetic. Mobil lost (there was a huge writeup on the lawsuit online back in '99) and they switched to the same modified oil base, which is why the cost of synthetic oil dropped so drastically in the past few years. # Amsoil is one of only a handful of true synthetic oils still being produced. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:37:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Not to make this a "synthetic oil" list, I do have a question. you state the main benefit of synth oils (see below for copied excerpt) If you do use synth oil and drive your vehicle beyond the recommended 3kmiles that dino oil says, what about the oil filter? Should this be changed at the regular 3kmile intervals? I would think that the oil is accumulating the same amount of debris as regular dino oil, so the filter should be getting pretty well clogged at 20k miles! And what about oil detergents? I read (somewhere) that not only does the oil viscosity break down over time/use, but the oil detergents become useless in 3kmiles. In fact, I remember reading (again, somewhere) that if you can put the additives back into your crankcase oil, dino oil should be good for 6-10k miles. Any thoughts? Ed web/gadget guru - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Never mind that we just had an incredibly cold winter in North America and huge record snowfalls across the continent. As Al Gore said to a bunch of us the other day, these record cold spells and record snowfalls are actually caused by global warming. To which Jerry York replied, 'Jeez then I guess we better stop this global warming before we all f**king freeze to death, eh?' - - 'Fake' Steve Jobs 3/24/08 blog entry - --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: From: john Subject: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil To: "Jim Blair" Cc: "xj-list" , "diesel-benz list" , "full size jeep list" Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 3:03 PM the main benefit of amsoil is the extended oil drain... 35,000 miles! I've gone over 20,000 miles on both gas and Diesel, and had oil analysis confirm that I could have gone longer!!! saving money is the motivation... ease of maintenance another... and protection against failure of cooling or lube systems is another... then there is the "green" factor... saving oil and fuel... it's ALL good! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # Originally Mobil 1 was a true synthetic, but after Castrol came out with the modified Hydrocarbon from natural base oil, there was a lawsuit about the definition of synthetic. Mobil lost (there was a huge writeup on the lawsuit online back in '99) and they switched to the same modified oil base, which is why the cost of synthetic oil dropped so drastically in the past few years. # Amsoil is one of only a handful of true synthetic oils still being produced. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:21:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil you make a good point... changing the filter is a recommended practice with amsoil, about once a year... the benefit of the synthetic is it holds more in suspension than does dino oil... also, it's formulated without all the extra additives to have good thermal properties so it doesn't break down over time... basic dino oil has issues under stress, synthetics don't. Detergent is an additive because the oil was leaving deposits, ash, varnish and such as the volatile elements evoporated or cooked off... adding additives to used dino oil is like adding fresh coffee grounds to your old grounds and expecting good coffee... it'll be ok, but it won't be the same... I think they call that Navy coffee... I don't know, I was in the Army, we didn't reuse our grounds. ;) dino oil can be reprocessed and recycled, it's cleaned in a centrifuge and then an additive package is added back in... many governments, including the military use this oil, but it's durability and balance isn't as good and I wouldn't recommend it... it's fine for burning in a Diesel as fuel though. ;) a good dino oil of the right viscosity, meaning a straight weight, properly filtered and monitored for proper ph balance could indeed go longer than the recommended amount, in fact, that's what mercedes is probably doing with their newer rigs, monitoring the oil quality... but synthetics of any brand are better from the start than dino oil... less volatiles to boil off, less impurities to deal with and a common molecular size so filtration is more effective, and you have a natural electrical charge to the oil to make it cling to the surfaces providing enhanced fricition reduction and reduced oxidation/rust of the engine... also better thermal transfer... synthetics are an absolute and total no-brainer, anyone saying dino oil is better has some serious reading to do, has a major mental flaw or deficiency or is listening to an ill-informed idiot who thinks that synthetics cause oil leaks and is too thin. :) there have been bad synthetics made early on... they aren't around any more... I only know amsoil, so I can't speak about other brands, but basic logic tells me that they will still be better than any known dino or mineral oil. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: # Not to make this a "synthetic oil" list, I do have a question. # you state the main benefit of synth oils (see below for copied excerpt) # If you do use synth oil and drive your vehicle beyond the recommended 3kmiles that dino oil says, what about the oil filter? Should this be changed at the regular 3kmile intervals? I would think that the oil is accumulating the same amount of debris as regular dino oil, so the filter should be getting pretty well clogged at 20k miles! # And what about oil detergents? I read (somewhere) that not only does the oil viscosity break down over time/use, but the oil detergents become useless in 3kmiles. In fact, I remember reading (again, somewhere) that if you can put the additives back into your crankcase oil, dino oil should be good for 6-10k miles. # Any thoughts? # Ed # web/gadget guru # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Never mind that we just had an incredibly cold winter in North America and huge record snowfalls across the continent. As Al Gore said to a bunch of us the other day, these record cold spells and record snowfalls are actually caused by global warming. To which Jerry York replied, 'Jeez then I guess we better stop this global warming before we all f**king freeze to death, eh?' # # - 'Fake' Steve Jobs 3/24/08 blog entry # # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: # # From: john # Subject: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil # To: "Jim Blair" # Cc: "xj-list" , "diesel-benz list" , "full size jeep list" # Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 3:03 PM # # the main benefit of amsoil is the extended oil drain... 35,000 miles! # I've gone over 20,000 miles on both gas and Diesel, and had oil analysis # confirm that I could have gone longer!!! # # saving money is the motivation... ease of maintenance another... and protection # against failure of cooling or lube systems is another... then there is the # "green" factor... saving oil and fuel... it's ALL good! # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # # # # Originally Mobil 1 was a true synthetic, but after Castrol came out with the # modified Hydrocarbon from natural base oil, there was a lawsuit about the # definition of synthetic. Mobil lost (there was a huge writeup on the lawsuit # online back in '99) and they switched to the same modified oil base, which # is why the cost of synthetic oil dropped so drastically in the past few years. # # Amsoil is one of only a handful of true synthetic oils still being # produced. # # # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:04:11 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: xj: Re: Stuck bearing... Just to follow up... I checked the rear wheels last night, could feel lots more play in the driver's side bearing that the new rear passenger side bearing, so I've ordered another bearing to change it out. At least I now know how to remove/replace it Should take about an hour all going well. Does it take time for a bearing to "seat"/"bed in"? Steve On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Stephen Rigley wrote: > Had a handy bit of aluminium pipe knocking about, then a buddy called over > so I had him hit one end while I held the other up to the bearing and then > the seal.. all in now. Just RTV'ing of the diff cover + pumping in of new > oil to go.. > Thanks for all the help! > Steve > > > > > On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > >> I was about to say you were on the right track. I stuff a wet rag into the >> housing just past the race so any bits that fly off from the dremel don't >> make >> it to the gear oil in the diff. There is a ring on the axle holding the >> bearing that can be busted off the same way as removing the race. I've >> also >> used a chisel to shatter them (trail fix) then once the bearing is off, >> inspect the area where the seal rides (make sure no nicks!) An old school >> way >> of protecting the shaft while chiseling is to use electricians tape >> temporarily in case you slip. The bearing locking ring is supposed to be >> pressed on, but I have used a piece of pipe like a slide hammer to get it >> on >> (tape has to be removed first so you can get the ring on of course! I'd >> probably tape it again to protect it while hammering the ring down) >> Nowadays I have a cheapo Harbor Freight press in my garage for doing >> that >> and Ujoints too (I still do most of those with a hammer and socket though) >> >> >> From: "Stephen Rigley" >> Subject: Re: xj: Re: Stuck bearing... >> >> Got it out this morning.. I attacked it with my dremel and it was out in 5 >> mins, nice one! >> >> Now comes the fun of putting the new one in.. I assume it just involves >> lots >> of pounding/whackery? >> Cheers >> Steve >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows >> Live. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2867 *************************