From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Oct 2 14:53:01 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, October 2 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2877 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list xj: Re: FW: [RENIXPower] Renix Data Stream xj: starter issues - '91 XJ - possible stuck relay XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:05:01 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 08:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: FW: [RENIXPower] Renix Data Stream no, that's a comment field. it's identifying which bit is which injector based on the firing order, first series is for an open condition, second for short... you'd have to analyze the data stream and watch those bits to see if they're one or zero at the correct time... this is header data laying out the structure and variables, it's appears to be part of a conditional loop... so, no, this does not state that injector 1 is bad. To verfiy, simply switch injector one to injector three and run the data again, you'll probably see the same set of code. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # can you make heads or tails out of this? Looks like 1 injector faulted to me? # > To: RENIXPower-at-yahoogroups.com # > From: gkvjeep-at-yahoo.com # > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:37:18 +0000 # > Subject: [RENIXPower] Renix Data Stream # > # > Baud Rate 62500 invert (level TTL) # > # > Double data 0xFF 0xFF transfer to single 0xFF # > # > My hack data # > #ifndef _RENIXD_ # > #define _RENIXD_ # > # > typedef unsigned char uchar; # > typedef unsigned short uint; # > #define LenData 33 # > # > typedef union _uData_{ # > uchar inData[LenData]; # > # > struct { # > # > //-- Vehicle Program and Calibration Code -- # > uchar Ser0; # > uchar Ser1; # > uchar Ser2; # > //----------------------------- # > # > uchar MAP; /* Pressure KPA = Value * 0.434 + 10.0 */ # > uchar ECT_F; /*Engine Coolant Temperature */ # > /* CLT 0F = Value-32 # > Convert to 0C ((Value-64)*5/9) # > */ # > uchar MAT_F; /*Manifold Air Temperature */ # > /* MAT 0F = Value-32 # > Convert to 0C ((Value-64)*5/9) # > */ # > uchar BATT_ADC; /* Battery Volt = Value/16 */ # > uchar O2_ADC; /* Exhaust Oxygen Sensor */ # > uchar RPML; /* */ # > uchar RPMH; /* RPM = 7812 / Value */ # > # > //Injectors Status # > uchar InjShort; /* Injectors Mask # > BIT 0:1 01 Short # > BIT 2 1 Inj # > BIT 3 5 Inj # > BIT 4 3 Inj # > BIT 5 6 Inj # > BIT 6 2 Inj # > BIT 7 4 Inj # > # > */ # > # > uchar InjOpen; /* # > BIT 0:1 10 Open # > BIT 2 1 Inj # > BIT 3 5 Inj # > BIT 4 3 Inj # > BIT 5 6 Inj # > BIT 6 2 Inj # > BIT 7 4 Inj # > */ # > # > uchar TPS_ADC; //Throtle Position Sensor ADC # > uchar ADV; //ADV # > uchar Indx14; # > uchar ECT_ADC; # > uchar BARO; //(Barometric Pressure) ADC # > # > uchar MODE; //MODE BIT # > //BIT 0x10 Knock # > //BIT 0x20 CLOSE/OPEN LOOP # > # > uchar ALFA; //ALFA= Value / 10 (14.7) # > uchar PW_MS; //PW mS = Value / 25 (Math) # > uchar Indx20; # > uchar Indx21; # > uchar ADV1; //ADV + knock_mask(0x80) ????? # > uchar WARMUP; //WARMUP ???? # > uchar ALFACL; //PULSE WIDTH MODIFICATION (ALFACL) # > uchar MAT_ADC; // # > uchar ADGAIN; //CORRECT # > uchar KNOCK; # > uchar Indx28; //CORRECT # > # > //uchar Status_SWITCH; # > struct { # > uchar D4: 1; //D4 - NOT USED # > uchar D6: 1; //D6 - NOT USED # > uchar SYNC: 1; //C5 # > uchar D5: 1; //D5 - NOT USED # > uchar START: 1; //C3 # > uchar AC_SELECT: 1; //D2 # > uchar AC_REQUEST: 1; //C2 # > uchar PARK: 1; //C4 # > } SWITCH_Input; # > # > uchar RENIX_Indx30; //Error Status # > //MPA 0x01 Ignition Modul # > // 0x02 # > // 0x04 # > // 0x08 # > //OXYGEN_RELAY 0x10 # > // LATCH_RELAY 0x20 # > // AC_RELAY 0x40 # > // 0x80 # > # > uchar StartFrH; # > uchar StartFrL; # > # > }Value; # > }Out_Data,*pOut_Data; # > #endif # > # > # > # > ------------------------------------ # > # > Yahoo! Groups Links # > # > To visit your group on the web, go to: # > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RENIXPower/ # > # > Your email settings: # > Individual Email | Traditional # > # > To change settings online go to: # > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RENIXPower/join # > (Yahoo! ID required) # > # > To change settings via email: # > mailto:RENIXPower-digest-at-yahoogroups.com # > mailto:RENIXPower-fullfeatured-at-yahoogroups.com # > # > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: # > RENIXPower-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com # > # > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: # > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ # > # # _________________________________________________________________ # See how Windows Mobile brings your life together--at home, work, or on the go. # http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 14:51:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: starter issues - '91 XJ - possible stuck relay Michael, this sounds like a stuck starter relay or a stuck bendix on the starter motor. when you replaced the starter did you have the starter checked? I can't remember if there is a firewall mounted starter relay on the xj or not, think there is... if so, that's probably shorted and causing voltage to go to the starter all the time... it's a direct connect from the battery to the starter. the mechanic that said you had a short in the ignition wiring that gets worse when it's warm is either an idiot, on drugs or failing to communicate the issue to you in terms that another mechanic can understand. :) Let's assume the best and it's the latter, since this guy may be one of your friends or very large and holds grudges. ;) Anyway, this is not an uncommon starter /relay type problem... so here's what we'll do to check this out. 1) disconnect the battery (if not already), ignition off, key out... 2) find the starter relay on the firewall, probably on the pass side can't find a picture that shows it... have worked on so many vehicles and no xj's in the drive right now... ;) anyway, disconnect the large lead that goes to the starter, it's probably red. 3) reconnect the battery (ignition off, key out) 4) with a voltmeter or test light, touch the bolt on the relay that held the starter cable. IF YOU HAVE POWER THERE the relay is most likely bad. But wait, there could indeed be a short... 5) IF you had power on the starter line, NOW disconnect one of the smaller leads on the relay. Check again... still have power? IF SO it is definetly the RELAY. If not, then check the smaller read lead to see if it has power... if it does this is where your mechanic failed to communicate. My guess is that if you have power with the key off to the starter it'll be there when you pull the small leads... try smacking the relay with something, it may release. I'm willing to bet a cup of coffee that it's the relay... It's unlikely you have a short, unless a band of renegade idiots have worked on this thing, it's been subjected to submergence or been hacked on by car thieves or a teenager wanting to add a boom box. ;) posting to the list for future help info for others experiencing runaway starters... Oh yeah, if the relay stuff checks out, then the bendix is stuck on the starter engaging it all the time... if this is the case your parts guy has the same possible three-way afflication that your mechanic has. ;) (I hope I never meet these guys... luckily (for me) they're all on the wrong coast. ;) in other news, found this page: http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/Engines/xj-starting-problems.html happy hunting. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Moontanman-at-aol.com wrote: # John, I know you get tired of helping me but I have ignition problems with # my Cherokee, 1991 Cherokee with a 4.0. # It started a while back, the starter started to drag while the motor was # running. It would come and go and finally the starter wouldn't engage to start # the engine any more so I put a new starter in. But it kept doing it, it got # worse, when the engine is cold the starter worked ok but I didn't notice this # at first. I changed out the electronic module on the steering column but as # soon as the engine was warm it began to engage the starter again. By this time # it would be making an ungodly noise, deafening to say the least. The # ignition switch was loose and worn so I replaced it. Again it ran fine until the # engine warmed up and it began again. This time it was horrible, I didn't get # five miles away from home and I had to turn back. The engine stopped running as # pulled into the drive way but the starter kept turning the motor over. I # finally had to disconnect the battery to get the starter to stop turning the # engine over. I also seem to have lost five gallons of gas in that five mile or # so drive but no signs of leaking gas anywhere. What on earth could be causing # this stuff, it got worse over time and now I can't even turn the ignition # switch on without the starter turning the engine over and I have to disconnect # the battery to get it to stop. I can hook up the battery without the starter # trying to crank the engine but as soon as I turn the key on it starts turning # the engine over and I have to disconnect the battery to get it to stop. A # local mechanic told me I have a short in the ignition wiring and that is why it # got worse when the engine was warm. He says it's probably under the hood. # That seems like an awfully large area, I need it narrowed down a little bit or # to know if something else is wrong. # # # Michael Hissom # aurea mediocritas # # # # # **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial # challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and # calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2877 *************************