From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Oct 9 19:57:35 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, October 10 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2881 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: RE: fsj: Ignition bypass Re: xj: Aux fan info needed! xj: engine for superdawg Re: xj: Aux fan info needed! xj: RE: Ignition bypass xj: Ignition bypas diagram xj: 6.5L Turbo Diesel sets land speed record... :) xj: Ignition switch bypass xj: Re: Ignition bypass Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass xj: RE: fsj: RE: Ignition bypass Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 20:33:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: RE: fsj: Ignition bypass looks like the solenoid is on the starter... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Moontanman-at-aol.com wrote: # 1991 4.0 HO # # # # **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. # Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! # (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 20:50:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremiah Westpfahl Subject: Re: xj: Aux fan info needed! Man the digest can mess with a person's mind when trying to follow through on message replies. Anyways, as already mentioned I tested the fan itself & it checked out so it must be some sort of controller issue. Heven't verified, but I've been told by one source that if I have the 2 wire temp sending unit(which I do) that the jeep shouldn't have another one...but I don't know if that's completely reliable info. That's one of the questions I was hoping someone could definately answer. While putting on the repaired head we put in a new waterpump, thermostat, & sending unit, but we didn't pull the radiator & have it cleaned or replace the clutch fan because time/money issues. Plan on doing some of that down the road since the cooling system on the jeeps seem to get a tad iffy once they get some age on them. The tech working on the Jeep did say that according to his tests the gauge was reading almost 15 degrees higher than what his instruments were showing, so I may not be actually running quite as hot as I thought. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: engine for superdawg looking at engine data for Superdawg... considering various Diesels... probably a Mercedes a 2.5L TD or 3.0L TD... a 6.5L TD would be the best for all around power... a 4.7L V8 out of a WJ would be the quietest and fastest... would get around 16 in town and 20 -21 on the freeway. sadly the 6.5 or 6.2 would do about the same... with the Mercedes Diesels I'm thinking I'd see closer to 20 in town and closer to 30 on the freeway... Superdawg is an '83 J10 stepside with a curb weight around 4,100lbs. underconsideration: - -94 - GM 6.5L TD - 215 hp -at- 3,200 - 440 lb-ft -at- 1,800 - -87 300d 3.0L chassis 124.133 /engine 603.960 143 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 195 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm - -91 300d 2.5 Turbo Diesel chassis 124.128 /engine 602.962 121 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 165 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm - -88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp -at- 3,600 - 240 ft lbs -at- 2,000 - -99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp -at- 4,800 - 295 ft lbs -at- 3,200 <-- WJ (GAS... :( to get better economy I'm thinking the Mercedes Turbo Diesel would work better... john full details below: ================================================= Benz Model/Engine --601 series-- - -84-85 190D 2.2 chassis 201.122 /engine 601.921 72hp -at- 4200 rpm, 96 ftlbs -at- 2800 rpm --602 series-- - -86-89 190D 2.5 chassis 201.126 /engine 602.911 non-turbo 93hp -at- 4100 rpm, 122 ftlbs -at- 2800 rpm - -87 190D 2.5 TD chassis 201.128 /engine 602.961 turbo 123 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 168 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm - -91 300d 2.5 Turbo Diesel chassis 124.128 /engine 602.962 turbo 121 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 165 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm --603 series-- - -86-87 300SDL chassis 126.125 /engine 603.961 148 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 201 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm - -91 350SD chassis 126.134 /engine 603.970 <--- 3.5L TD - BEWARE 150 hp -at- 4000 rpm, 229 ftlbs -at- 2200 rpm - -87 300d 3.0L chassis 124.133 /engine 603.960 143 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 195 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm --606 series-- - -95 E300d 3.0L chassis 124.131 /engine 606.910 ???? --616 series-- - -77-83 240d chassis 123.123 /engine 616.912 72 hp -at- 4,400 - 97 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated) --617 series-- - -77-81 300d 3.0L chassis 123.130 /engine 617.912 88 hp -at- 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs -at- 2,400 - -81-85 300SD chassis 126.120 /engine 617.951 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 - -82-85 300d 3.0L TD chassis 123.133 /engine 617.952 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm - -------------------------------------- 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- original 97 - ZJ 4.0L - 185 hp -at- 4,600 - 220 ft lbs -at- 2,400 99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp -at- 4,800 - 295 ft lbs -at- 3,200 <-- WJ 99 - WJ 4.0L - 195 hp -at- 4,600 - 230 ft lbs -at- 3,000 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp -at- 3,700 - 245 ft lbs -at- 1,600 <-- Old Blue 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp -at- 4,500 - 224 ft lbs -at- 2,500 <-- little wagoneer 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp -at- 4,750 - 225 ft lbs -at- 4,000 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp -at- 4,400 - 300 ft lbs -at- 3,200 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp -at- 4,400 - 320 ft lbs -at- 2,800 <-- 401 V8 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp -at- 3,600 - 240 ft lbs -at- 2,000 94 - GM 6.5L TD - 215 hp -at- 3,200 - 440 lb-ft -at- 1,800 GAS V8s 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp -at- 4,000 - 300 ft lbs -at- 2,800 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp -at- 3,400 - 270 ft lbs -at- 2,400 Mercedes Diesels - -------------------------------- 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp -at- 4,200 - 96 ft lbs -at- 2,800 (normally aspirated) 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp -at- 4,400 - 97 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated) 87 - 190D 2.5L - 123 hp -at- 4,600 - 168 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) 81 - 300D 3.0L - 88 hp -at- 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated) <-- fritz 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:07:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Aux fan info needed! that's why we say that the instruments in jeeps are for entertainment purposes only... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Jeremiah Westpfahl wrote: # Man the digest can mess with a person's mind when trying to follow through on message replies. # # Anyways, as already mentioned I tested the fan itself & it checked out so it must be some sort of controller issue. Heven't verified, but I've been told by one source that if I have the 2 wire temp sending unit(which I do) that the jeep shouldn't have another one...but I don't know if that's completely reliable info. That's one of the questions I was hoping someone could definately answer. # # While putting on the repaired head we put in a new waterpump, thermostat, & sending unit, but we didn't pull the radiator & have it cleaned or replace the clutch fan because time/money issues. Plan on doing some of that down the road since the cooling system on the jeeps seem to get a tad iffy once they get some age on them. # # The tech working on the Jeep did say that according to his tests the gauge was reading almost 15 degrees higher than what his instruments were showing, so I may not be actually running quite as hot as I thought. # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 08:39:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: RE: Ignition bypass Tom, won't make it to the list, so I put it on my server: http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/ignition-switch-bypass.jpg (nicely done... will put it on the FSJ tech page as well....) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Potter, Tom E wrote: # Perhaps this will help. # # # # # # # # Tom Potter # # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # Moontanman-at-aol.com # Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:15 PM # To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net; john-at-wagoneers.com; xj-at-digest.net # Subject: fsj: Ignition bypass # # # # Can any one help me find a wiring diagram to by pass my ignition switch # and # # put a push button on my dash to allow me to start my jeep. I have a # short # # somewhere in the ignition that allows the starter to engage when the # ignition # # switch is turned on. I cannot find the short so I need to bypass the # switch. # # 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, # # # # Michael Hissom # # aurea mediocritas # # # # # # # # # # **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your # destination. # # Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! # # (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 11:57:04 EDT From: Moontanman-at-aol.com Subject: xj: Ignition bypas diagram Tom sent me this great diagram for bypassing the ignition on a FSJ Cherokee, does anyone have a similar diagram for a XJ? Let's try again. Here is the link. http://www.geocities.com/jeep_images/electrical/push_button_ignition.jpg Tom Potter **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 15:33:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: 6.5L Turbo Diesel sets land speed record... :) Looks like Bill did it... 153 mph... Sept 19, 2008... http://www.heathdiesel.com/images/poweredlandspeedtruck.jpg got to see it in it's final preparations: http://wagoneers.com/DIESELS/GM/6.5L/6.5L-TTD-land-speed-challenger-Heath-Diesel/ALL.html full article about buildup linked here: http://www.heathdiesel.com/ john '94 K1500 6.5L TD '91 300D 2.5L TD '99 WJ 4.7L V8 '83 J10 stepside - sans engine '75 J10 hydraulic dump trailer '67 J100 232 cu in ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 19:38:24 EDT From: Moontanman-at-aol.com Subject: xj: Ignition switch bypass I did it, I by passed the ignition switch. Good news, The starter no longer starts up when I turn on the ignition. Bad news, When I push the new starter button the starter turns over but still doesn't stop until I disconnect the battery. Stay tuned for news at 11, man burns jeep in a terrible rage, neighbors say he was always a quiet man, don't understand what could have driven him over the edge! Michael Hissom Fanatic Sturgeon Nutcase (everyone needs a dream) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 17:36:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: Ignition bypass rofl... ok, you know what? it sounds like the starter/solenoid is the problem... when you release the button the starter should stop... that it doesn't brings us right back to where we started this adventure... when I told you it sounded like the starter solenoid... :) which means the new starter you put on, if it came with the solenoid, was the problem. the good news is that your switch will work on the new starter/solenoid... :) you have eliminated the wiring as the problem too. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Moontanman-at-aol.com wrote: # I did it, I by passed the ignition switch. # # Good news, # # The starter no longer starts up when I turn on the ignition. # # Bad news, # # When I push the new starter button the starter turns over but doesn't stop # until I disconnect the battery. # # Stay tuned for news at 11, man burns jeep in a terrible rage, neighbors say # he was always a quiet man, don't understand what could have driven him over # the edge! # # Michael Hissom # # Fanatic Sturgeon Nutcase # (everyone needs a dream) # # **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. # Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out # (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 20:31:03 EDT From: Moontanman-at-aol.com Subject: Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass Sadly I took the starter to the store beofre I installed the switch and they said it was ok. Now what? Michael Hissom Fanatic Sturgeon Nutcase (everyone needs a dream) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 17:46:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass did they test the solenoid? the starter is probably fine, but they need to test that solenoid too... did it come on the starter when you bought it or was it moved over from the old starter? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Moontanman-at-aol.com wrote: # Sadly I took the starter to the store beofre I installed the switch and they # said it was ok. Now what? # # Michael Hissom # # Fanatic Sturgeon Nutcase # (everyone needs a dream) # # **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. # Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out # (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 20:41:24 EDT From: Moontanman-at-aol.com Subject: Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass It's an integral part of the starter, they hooked the starter up to a test stand and it ran for them. I don't know if they tested the solenoid or not. I guess I have to take it off again and go back. I'm betting they will demand the receipt, and I bet I don't have it. It looks like the Jeep will sit a while longer..... Michael Hissom Fanatic Sturgeon Nutcase (everyone needs a dream) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 19:33:12 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: RE: fsj: RE: Ignition bypass Worked on the list from here? For the XJ starter, the small wire to the starter is the signal that makes it operate. Do the same diagram as the one below but remove the original wire from the starter and hook the blue colored line to where the original went and add a fuse to the 12VDC power coming in. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Subject: fsj: RE: Ignition bypass > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:05:35 -0500 > From: Tom.E.Potter-at-Williams.com > To: Moontanman-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net; john-at-wagoneers.com; xj-at-digest.net > > Let's try again. Here is the link. > > http://www.geocities.com/jeep_images/electrical/push_button_ignition.jpg > > > Tom Potter > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of > Moontanman-at-aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:15 PM > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net; john-at-wagoneers.com; xj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Ignition bypass > > Can any one help me find a wiring diagram to by pass my ignition switch > and > put a push button on my dash to allow me to start my jeep. I have a > short > somewhere in the ignition that allows the starter to engage when the > ignition > switch is turned on. I cannot find the short so I need to bypass the > switch. > 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, > > Michael Hissom > aurea mediocritas > > > > > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ^S10 hidden secrets^T from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 19:56:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: Ignition bypass what an adventure this turned out to be. :) this still isn't as bad as replacing a water pump that had to be special ordered from Germany, took a month to get, took two weeks of evenings to install and turned out not to be the problem... oh yeah, and the cost was outrageous too... several hundred bucks... turned out the upper radiator hose had a pin hole leak in it. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Moontanman-at-aol.com wrote: # It's an integral part of the starter, they hooked the starter up to a test # stand and it ran for them. I don't know if they tested the solenoid or not. I # guess I have to take it off again and go back. # I'm betting they will demand the receipt, and I bet I don't have it. It # looks like the Jeep will sit a while longer..... # # Michael Hissom # # Fanatic Sturgeon Nutcase # (everyone needs a dream) # # **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. # Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out # (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2881 *************************