From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Nov 6 10:25:53 2008 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, November 6 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2897 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: xj: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects xj: Re: weather xj: fuel costs and misadventures with grease... xj: Re: [db] fuel cost WVO Biodiesel XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:25:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: xj: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects I've already promised any extra rain to my uncle in California, still trying to figure out how to get it down there... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Tesar Landon wrote: # Thanks for the grins... # # It's been a miserable summer down here (Austin) 2 significant rain # events from June-Sept. Lake Travis is down about 34 feet. Cantelope # did well considering. # # - Landon # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:42 PM # To: xj-at-digest.net # Subject: Re: xj: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects # # earthquakes of any magnitude happen about once every two to three # years... # volcanos... the last one was in 1980... nothing expected any time soon. # ;) # tsunamis... last one we know of was around 1700. ;) # liberals... well, that's an ongoing issue... chicago style democratic # style politics have emerged # # otherwise we get about 34 inches of rain spread over 9 months, maybe a # few inches of snow # and a week long heat wave that might break 90... typical temp is around # 50 from sept through may, # and about 65 to 70 may to sept... one year we broke a record... # something like 70 days over 70 degrees! # # mild climate with expensive real estate, horrific traffic congestion, # high taxes and espresso stands # every few tenths of a mile... # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # # # On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: # # # Wow...over here in the "other Washington" area (Northern Virginia for # me) about the only natural disasters we have to worry about is the # oppressive heat and humidity of Late Summer, the fridged, biting, # numbing cold of January and the occational off-course hurricane. # # Oh, and the blustering of politics in DC creating a southerly trend # through suburban neighborhoods causing neighbors to fight neighbors... # # Way too much politics out here... # # Ed # # web/gadget guru # # # # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # By Richard Feynman, Physicist, Nobel winner (1918-1988) # # # # "There are 10^11 stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. # But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We # used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them # economical numbers." # # # # --- On Mon, 11/3/08, David Bierschank wrote: # # # # From: David Bierschank # # Subject: Re: xj: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects # # To: xj-at-digest.net # # Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 4:14 PM # # # # Yeah.... The list goes on and on...... maybe Oklahoma is not all that # bad # # after all..... I have been a lot of places, but I am always happy to # get # # back to Oklahoma... tornado's and all. ( I actually do like watching # # tornado's ("at a safe distance")). # # # # David # # # # On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:00 PM, john wrote: # # # # > volcanos are beautiful... the key is to live on high ground # # > between them... :) at a safe distance... # # > # # > it's not so much the volcano you worry about but the mud flows and # # ensuing # # > floods... # # > of course there is the issue of ash... it'll tear up a car's # # engine pretty # # > quick # # > without a nylon/panty hose over the inlet... :) # # > # # > and you forgot about the earthquakes, tsunamis and liberals... ;) # # > # # > ----- # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they # mold # # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: # # # http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # # > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # # > http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # # > # # > # # > On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, David Bierschank wrote: # # > # # > # I said sometimes...... believe me, I would gladly trade. On # the other # # > # hand, we do have trees and grass, not as nice as yours. The # dust bowl # # > was # # > # almost 70 years ago, we are no longer an Indian territory, and # I # # don't # # > own # # > # a horse, but some stereotype's are hard to break. ;-} # # > # # # > # David # # > # Oh, we also don't have Volcano's...... # # > # # # > # # # > # # # > # On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:03 PM, john wrote: # # > # # # > # > yeah, but we have trees... # # > # > and grass... ;) # # > # > # # > # > ----- # # > # > # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, # # they mold # # > # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: # # > # # # http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # # > # # > # > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # # > # > http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ # http://freegift.com # # > # > # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # - # # > # > # # > # > # # > # > On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, David Bierschank wrote: # # > # > # # > # > # BTW..... Reg Gas is under $1.90/gal around here and # # falling...... I # # > saw # # > # > # three stations in my 2 mile drive at lunch that were at # $1.88. # # > # > # Sometimes it's good to live in the oil patch. # # > # > # # # > # > # David # # > # > # # > # # # > # # # > # # # > # # # > # # # # # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:26:47 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: weather it's yours, come and get it. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Ronald Fuka wrote: # Wow, send some of that extra rain here, we need it. # # With 2 days of rain here we got a whopping 1/4 inch. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:13:31 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: fuel costs and misadventures with grease... doing some number crunching and thinking about what I want to drive and do with my time... ...don't want to spend time hauling WVO around, and can't say I really like driving a Chevy... ;) assumptions: 1,200 miles per month, gas pump price $2.47, Diesel pump price $3.19, labor to handle/process/move wvo & biodiesel $30/hr. to MOVE WVO around for BioDiesel is about $1.98/gallon. - total biod costs: $3.73 to move wvo around AND FILTER it, is about $3.00/gallon. insurance is about $42/vehicle/month, give or take... using in town mileage - mileage estimates LOW and labor costs HIGH... ...your mileage may vary... (YMMV) so, that stated: WJ - 15 mpg in town - cost / month: $197.40 K1500 - 15 mpg in town: - PUMP: $255.20 - BIOD: $298.40 ($140 straight costs + est. labor) - WVO/blend: $251.40 (can not use biodiesel) - WVO w/aux tank: $240.00 (still need the tank and setup, add $1k) for $15/mo savings it's not worth spending $1k on a 2nd tank, nor is it cost effective, considering my time, to do BioDiesel... when it was free, or even $1.30/gallon it made sense... BENZ - 29 mpg in town - cost / month: - PUMP: $132.00 - BIOD: $154.34 ($72.41 straight cost + est. labor) - WVO/blend: $130.03 (can not use biodiesel) - WVO w/aux tank: $124.14 (still need the tank and setup, add $1k) Coming to the somewhat abrubt conclusion that biodiesel and/or blending wvo isn't worth the trouble, although it does feel good... (and smells good...) the math just doesn't work out when one considers the TIME, the mess and the extra incidentals... over $4/gallon it starts making some sense, but considering the effort and TIME, not that much... I've got empty buckets and cubies and barrels all over my yard, my trailer has one empty and one full barrel of oil in it... and an empty bucket... and a barrel lift attached... making it hard to use for topsoil (which I was told is something we need for the yard... ;) Of course, the time issue isn't that big of a deal, and we often combine the adventure, so it's not just about the time... question is, is it worth all the mess and chasing around to save $75 to $125/month in direct costs? Selling the K1500 would immediately save about $100 / month in fuel and insurance... and give me the money to get a nice Diesel engine driveline for my J10... :) We'd use the WJ for trips and the Benz for commuting/local stuff like we did before. That leaves me without a 4x4 Diesel, but having had one I can say I'll be ok... until I can get my J10 working again. ;) I still plan to build up my J10 as a Diesel, and building it from the ground up for WVO makes sense... will have time to acquire free parts and time to engineer it. Not insuring it or driving it for months or a year also save money... The WJ is more than capable of pulling the trailer... if gas prices go up again we could just not drive as much... freedom isn't free, right? ;) Eventually the Mercedes will die and perhaps the J10 will be ready... I should have plenty of time, the Benz "only" has 254,000 miles on it and not a single issue... oil change every 15 to 20 thousand miles, front brake pads every 20 to 30 thousand miles and a tank of go-juice once every 500 or 600 miles and it's happy... So for now, the K1500 will be going up for sale, possibly along with the Panel... Will only make one trip up north a month to move barrels of WVO around... will cut way back on my bioDiesel use... Oh the insanity of it all... :) ...have excellent sources of WVO and the equipment to move it and the chemical costs just made it non-cost effective... guess I'll start filtering and stockpiling like I used to... or selling my WVO if I can find a buyer... of course the supply of wvo has decreased with the costs of cooking oil too... guess everyone is cutting back. :) I'll put the spreadsheet up on my server if anyone is interested in checking my math... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] fuel cost WVO Biodiesel Wiard, Yes, all good points. Many of those issues are the same as with BioDiesel though... lines, filters and injectors... Heated WVO should be fine if filtered... of course there is the issue of acidity... so it might be better to do BioDiesel on that basis alone... I'm not into playing with chemicals so testing my oil is not something I plan to do. And yes, I've been stranded on the side of the road with a clogged filter, made it over a mountain pass at 5mph with another clogged filter... neither were fun... that's why I have filters for each tank in addition to the original stock primary and secondary... :) straight from the department of redundancy department. :) I may have found a good candidate for a SMALL 4x4 Diesel project... found a sickly Geo Tracker for cheap... it still runs, interior is trashed, etc. don't know much about them except I've got a friend who is a hard core wheeler, president of two 4x4 clubs who has one... that in itself says something to me. ;) I looked at a couple of Jeep Cherokee's yesterday, one with a bad trans, thinking I'd put the 4.0L into my J10 and then put a Mercedes Diesel into the Cherokee... but after looking at the pre-97 xj's and being mislead on on Cherokee that was supposed to be nice and it turned out to be not nice and a ZJ I figured that idea wasn't going to work. The older style XJs have a lot of plastic... the newer style does too but has a more comfortable feel... if you can find one with good leather seats. I had found a nice '99 XJ but wouldn't pay what the guy was asking for it and kicking myself now. But then again, it wasn't a Diesel. Current direction is to sell the Blazer and get my J10 running, may just find a stock engine for it... but I still want to build a Diesel 4x4, preferrably an economical one... if it gets good enough mileage I won't need to burn WVO... can do the BioDiesel thing with less consumption. The J10 is unlikely to be economical, even if I can find a nice Cummins 4BT or 6at.2. A Mercedes Diesel in the J10 would be fine in town, could probably make it work ok, but then it wouldn't do well on the freeway... my wife hates my J10... so the Tracker if fixed up nicely would make more sense... it could actually haul a passenger... ;) We'll see, I've driven Samarui's but not a tracker... for daily driving it might be fine, if not, well, shouldn't be a problem to sell... ;) Another option would be to find a nice WJ limited with a bad engine, seems that there are a lot out there with valve train issues, don't understand it... that 4.7L V8 is a sweet motor... have had 2 that were flawless... remember looking at one owned by a jeep mechanic and he pointed out several issues that he had fixed on his... guess I've been lucky or not had troubles because I always run amsoil synthetics... the 230 I-6's from the early '60s had issues because of dino oil, wonder if the SOHC setup on the 4.7 isn't getting enough lubrication because of dino oil. They are very high revving engines that spool up quickly, without good oil valve train wear could be a big issue. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 6 Nov 2008, Wiard Pless wrote: # John, # a consideration should also the trouble you could encounter with veg. diesel # fuel: # # leaking fuel line, clocked fuel line and filters esp. during winter months # leaking injector pump and wear on injectors longevity of engine # and if you get stranded at the road side away from home # sure , would like to save money as well but but may be it is time to consider # a smaller car with better fuel economy. # Wiard # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2897 *************************