From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Apr 12 09:36:04 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Sunday, April 12 2009 Volume 01 : Number 2986 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids xj: Re: Nice conversion job Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids RE: fsj: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids RE: fsj: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:41:32 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids CA, MA, VT and NY I believe are the four states that don't allow Diesels... some mfrs don't won't to import unless it can meet all 50 states... so I've heard... all I know is a Diesel engine is inherently more efficient, less polluting, less toxic, than any gasoline engine... unless that gas engine possibly is running on pure alcohol, maybe... ;) I guess the best demonstration of the differences is to ask someone is if there is any doubt about the safety of Diesel emissions vs. Gas engines... to lock themselves in an enclosed space with both and see what happens... I'd recommend trying the Diesel first, unless of course you simply dislike those nasty, dirty, smelly Diesels... Or better, just read the specs on the exhaust outputs and have someone that actually understands science explain the differences to you calmly and slowly, maybe using illustrations and graphics... but don't let them use any fluffy, furry animals to do the test, oh no, that would be wrong, if you dislike Diesels you need to do this yourself... first hand experiential data is trustworthy... I don't know what the problem is with the world... I wasn't a super sharp student in grade school, but I did learn enough in science classes to understand that much of what we hear hyped up in the media these days is junk science with an agenda... common sense is lost to a real agenda... case in point, here's just a few facts that haven't been refuted that make many acts of legislation either in error or unsupportable: - - freon is heavier than air, yet they banned one of the safest and efficient refrigerants known to man... and replaced it with one that is toxic and less efficient... my guess is a patent expired and the patent holder came up with a new product... - - the ozone is in the stratosphere, several thousand feet higher than the highest mountain - - the hole in the ozone is over the least populated part of the planet - - we have accurate meterological data for 50 to maybe 150 years - - the planet is older than 150 years, regardless of your view of the age of the earth that makes the data statistically insignificant - - there are an estimated 6,790,062,216 people on the planet, give or take a few - - there is an estimated 148,940,000 square kilometers of land that's 57,506,606 square miles - - that means each and every person on the planet theoretically could have 236,108.60 square feet... right now... an acre is 43,560 sq ft, so if my math is correct, we could all, each one of us, male and female, could have 5.36 acres each... however, check the math, I think I may have found an error in Excel... ;) 1 square km = 247.1044 acres 1 acre = 43,560 square feet 1 square km = 0.3861022 square miles https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx.html john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Not sure John. The Passat diesel in Europe meets euro IV and probably V # standards which should meet CA, MA and whatever that third state is that has # idiot regs on Diesels. But you are correct, it is probably more to do with # our rules than their desire. However, in reading the bluetec (Benz) and then # the VW statement that VW can meet US regs without urea injection, I wonder # when they will get here. Have a Jetta TDI now and looked at the Jetta TDI # wagon. The latter did not gain me much over what I can stuff into the # existing Jetta by lowering the seat backs so it did not seem like enough of a # gain. The Passat or a little Tiguan in Diesel (they don't have that one # either, only gas) would have fit the bill. The thought of doing a # buy/drive/export from Germany has crossed my mind but the bank is not # amenable just now :-) # # john wrote: # > is it vw or our goofy and ignorant restrictions? # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # > # > # Good luck in finding one. I went to the local VW # > # dealer last month and asked to see a new Passat # > # diesel wagon, there are none, not imported to # > # U.S., bummer!! I was willing to trade the 300D # > # for one too. Hope this silly attitude by VW # > # changes soon. # > # # > # Edward # > # # > # john wrote: # > # > I've had several Rabbit Diesels, older models, # > # > and they were good, # > # > the newer ones are way better... have toyed # > # > around with the idea # > # > of getting a TDI Passat Wagon... # > # > # > # > My '91 300D with a 2.5L Turbo Diesel gets 30 in # > # > town and over 35 # > # > on the freeway, have gotten 39.5 with it... much # > # > nicer than a VW # > # > too... larger, not sure about faster... but # > # > more comfortable. # > # > # > # > Any Diesel is a good Diesel... :) I even liked # > # > my Olds 5.7L... # > # > # > # > Once you get used to mashing the go pedal to the # > # > floor it's fine. # > # > # > # > A friend of mine helped me get my vehicles back # > # > from the shop once # > # > and wanted to drive the Benz instead of my WJ... # > # > he was supposed to follow me... but he stopped # > # > and got out and # > # > closed the hood... was trying to figure out what # > # > the heck he # > # > was doing... turns out he was used to driving a # > # > gas vehicle and # > # > thought the parking brake was on and pulled the # > # > wrong lever... # > # > it was pretty funny, the Benz was running great, # > # > and he thought # > # > the parking brake was on. :) # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > -o|||||o- # > # > # > # > 1986 CJ-10A 20.4 mpg 3.3L # > # > Diesel/AT 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) # > # > 29 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) # > # > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 15 mpg 4.7L # > # > V8/45RFE/NV247 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) # > # > hydraulic dump trailer 1967 Jeep 100 Panel (SJ) # > # > 232 cu in /t-85/d20 # > # > # > # > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 14 mpg # > # > 4.2/T-5/NP208 (Superdawg) - not # > # > reassembled yet... # > # > # > # > -o|||||o- # > # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # > # > don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > http:http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # > # > http:http://fotomeister.us # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, David Bierschank wrote: # > # > # > # > # John, # > # > # At the car show I went to a few weeks ago, one # > # > # of the cars I liked most was # > # > # the VW Rabbit with the Diesel. Good looking # > # > # car 30 city 40 hwy. Fairly loaded # > # > # of comes in right at 25k. There is also a tax # > # > # rebate of I think 1500 on the # > # > # diesel version. I have not driven one but it # > # > # looks interesting. # > # > # # > # > # David Bierschank # > # > # # > # > # Sent from my iPhone # > # > # # > # > # On Apr 10, 2009, at 5:43 PM, john # > # > # wrote: # > # > # # > # > # >mercedes appears to be on the same # > # > # >wavelength: # > # > # > # > # > # >http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/mercedes-benz-to-bring-4-cylinder-diesels-to-the-us/ # > # > # > # > # > # >thanx, # > # > # >john # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where # > # > # > Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > # > http:http://creationwiki.org # > # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # > # > # > http:http://fotomeister.us # > # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # >On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Tom H wrote: # > # > # > # > # > # > # VW is laying out their strategy # > # > # > # # > # > # > # http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/vw-chief-makes-case-for-diesel-and-cash-for-clunkers/ # > # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # > # > # > # # > # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:55:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: Nice conversion job wow, nicely done... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Stephen Rigley wrote: # *http://tinyurl.com/d5mygw # # *Looks great! # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:30:15 -0700 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids don't know where you got that from; i have several friends who have new diesels here in CA. cheers! e john wrote: > CA, MA, VT and NY I believe are the four states that don't allow Diesels... > [snip] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:03:59 +0000 (GMT) From: barbierij-at-optonline.net Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids I have seen one of those new rabbit diesels here in Kingston, NY about a year ago. Is this something new that NYS does not allow diesels?----- Original Message -----From: ernest breakfield Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009 7:31 pmSubject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs HybridsTo: xj-at-digest.netCc: Edward Pomeroy , Tom H > don't know where you got that from; i have several friends who > have new > diesels here in CA.> > > cheers!> e> > > john wrote:> > CA, MA, VT and NY I believe are the four states that don't > allow Diesels...> > > [snip]> Jesse BarbieriA+, Network+, MCP, MCDSTThe Computer Works(518) 755-9625Rosendale, NY 12472 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:14:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids there have been models excluded, I'm thinking Mercedes in 2004 if memory serves me correct... those were the 4 states that wouldn't let them in... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, ernest breakfield wrote: # don't know where you got that from; i have several friends who have new # diesels here in CA. # # # cheers! # e # # # john wrote: # > CA, MA, VT and NY I believe are the four states that don't allow Diesels... # > # [snip] # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:48:22 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids So why do I gag and hack when I smell diesel exhaust? The ozone layer has thinned out all over which is the cause of the rise of skin cancers and sunburn over the past 10 years or so. The increase of UV from the thinned O3 layer is to blame. I agree R12 probably isn't the culprit as claimed, but all those rockets going up are messing things up. Not to mention that around the time of most wars on this planet, more severe winters have happened. From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids CA, MA, VT and NY I believe are the four states that don't allow Diesels... some mfrs don't won't to import unless it can meet all 50 states... so I've heard... all I know is a Diesel engine is inherently more efficient, less polluting, less toxic, than any gasoline engine... unless that gas engine possibly is running on pure alcohol, maybe... ;) I guess the best demonstration of the differences is to ask someone is if there is any doubt about the safety of Diesel emissions vs. Gas engines... to lock themselves in an enclosed space with both and see what happens... I'd recommend trying the Diesel first, unless of course you simply dislike those nasty, dirty, smelly Diesels... Or better, just read the specs on the exhaust outputs and have someone that actually understands science explain the differences to you calmly and slowly, maybe using illustrations and graphics... but don't let them use any fluffy, furry animals to do the test, oh no, that would be wrong, if you dislike Diesels you need to do this yourself... first hand experiential data is trustworthy... I don't know what the problem is with the world... I wasn't a super sharp student in grade school, but I did learn enough in science classes to understand that much of what we hear hyped up in the media these days is junk science with an agenda... common sense is lost to a real agenda... case in point, here's just a few facts that haven't been refuted that make many acts of legislation either in error or unsupportable: - - - freon is heavier than air, yet they banned one of the safest and efficient refrigerants known to man... and replaced it with one that is toxic and less efficient... my guess is a patent expired and the patent holder came up with a new product... - - - the ozone is in the stratosphere, several thousand feet higher than the highest mountain - - - the hole in the ozone is over the least populated part of the planet - - - we have accurate meterological data for 50 to maybe 150 years - - - the planet is older than 150 years, regardless of your view of the age of the earth that makes the data statistically insignificant - - - there are an estimated 6,790,062,216 people on the planet, give or take a few - - - there is an estimated 148,940,000 square kilometers of land that's 57,506,606 square miles - - - that means each and every person on the planet theoretically could have 236,108.60 square feet... right now... an acre is 43,560 sq ft, so if my math is correct, we could all, each one of us, male and female, could have 5.36 acres each... however, check the math, I think I may have found an error in Excel... ;) 1 square km = 247.1044 acres 1 acre = 43,560 square feet 1 square km = 0.3861022 square miles https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx.html john _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail.: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Upda tes1_042009 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 09:35:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids we don't understand the climatic cycles... I doubt man is the culprit because the hole got smaller despite more activity on our part... Diesel produces aldehyde, which makes me gag a bit as well, but it's only temporary, whereas gas engines trigger an allergic reaction as well as the toxic effects. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 12 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # So why do I gag and hack when I smell diesel exhaust? The ozone layer has # thinned out all over which is the cause of the rise of skin cancers and # sunburn over the past 10 years or so. The increase of UV from the thinned O3 # layer is to blame. I agree R12 probably isn't the culprit as claimed, but all # those rockets going up are messing things up. Not to mention that around the # time of most wars on this planet, more severe winters have happened. # # # From: john # Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids # # CA, MA, VT and NY I believe are the four states that don't allow Diesels... # # some mfrs don't won't to import unless it can meet all 50 states... so I've # heard... # # all I know is a Diesel engine is inherently more efficient, less # polluting, less toxic, than any gasoline engine... unless that gas # engine possibly is running on pure alcohol, maybe... ;) # # I guess the best demonstration of the differences is to ask someone # is if there is any doubt about the safety of Diesel emissions vs. Gas # engines... # to lock themselves in an enclosed space with both and see what happens... # # I'd recommend trying the Diesel first, unless of course # you simply dislike those nasty, dirty, smelly Diesels... # # Or better, just read the specs on the exhaust outputs and have someone that # actually # understands science explain the differences to you calmly and slowly, maybe # using illustrations and graphics... but don't let them use any fluffy, furry # animals to do the test, oh no, that would be wrong, if you dislike Diesels # you need to do this yourself... first hand experiential data is # trustworthy... # # I don't know what the problem is with the world... I wasn't a super sharp # student # in grade school, but I did learn enough in science classes to understand that # much of what we hear hyped up in the media these days is junk science with # an agenda... common sense is lost to a real agenda... # # case in point, here's just a few facts that haven't been refuted that make # many acts of legislation either in error or unsupportable: # # - - freon is heavier than air, yet they banned one of the safest and # efficient # refrigerants known to man... and replaced it with one that is toxic # and less efficient... my guess is a patent expired and the patent holder # came up with a new product... # - - the ozone is in the stratosphere, several thousand feet higher than the # highest mountain # - - the hole in the ozone is over the least populated part of the planet # - - we have accurate meterological data for 50 to maybe 150 years # - - the planet is older than 150 years, regardless of your view of the age of # the earth that makes the data statistically insignificant # - - there are an estimated 6,790,062,216 people on the planet, give or take a # few # - - there is an estimated 148,940,000 square kilometers of land # that's 57,506,606 square miles # - - that means each and every person on the planet theoretically could have # 236,108.60 square feet... right now... an acre is 43,560 sq ft, # so if my math is correct, we could all, each one of us, male and # female, could have 5.36 acres each... # # however, check the math, I think I may have found an error in Excel... ;) # # 1 square km = 247.1044 acres # 1 acre = 43,560 square feet # 1 square km = 0.3861022 square miles # # # https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx.html # # john # _________________________________________________________________ # Rediscover Hotmail.: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. # http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Upda # tes1_042009 # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2986 *************************