From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Apr 30 23:21:06 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Friday, May 1 2009 Volume 01 : Number 2999 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: CRD Comanche project (not mine) Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy xj: RE: fsj: Cummins 6AT compared to Nissan SD33 (and 4.2) xj: abundance of nature xj: Diesel options xj: administrivia: notes on using this list XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:47:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: CRD Comanche project (not mine) sweet. that will be nice when it's done... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=726857 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:45:17 -0400 From: Christopher Wilson Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy I'm hoping that Jeep will be either spun off or given enough creative control to return them to their roots. Making 'Jeeps" based on Dodge cars is a disaster. On 4/30/09, john wrote: > > Chrysler deserves it for what they did to Jeep... > > first the ZJ, then the KJ, then the WK... bleech. > or worse, they killed the SJ, the XJ, the MJ and the WJ. > > which offense is worse? creating things that gave Jeep a bad > name and ruined the marque, or killing classics? > > not to mention changing model designators so they did not follow > a time honored tradition... using "J". > > Who might be worthy of rescuing Jeep? > Certainly NOT Fiat... or Renault... > > welcome to the brave new world of government controlled capitalism, > they have a name for it, but it escapes me right now... > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > # > From: BreakingNews-at-mail.cnn.com > # > Subject: CNN Breaking News > # > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:04:57 -0700 > # > -- Obama administration official: Chrysler will file for bankruptcy now > that > # negotiations with creditors have collapsed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy amen. IFS does NOT belong on a jeep either... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Christopher Wilson wrote: # I'm hoping that Jeep will be either spun off or given enough creative # control to return them to their roots. Making 'Jeeps" based on Dodge cars # is a disaster. # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:26:17 -0500 From: Tom Moulder Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy If anything killed the automakers, it's the $4 gas last year, union's, and the people who insist on 10 mpg vehicles. Jeeps have been through AMC, Renault, Chrysler, Mercedes, Cerberus, and now the UAW owns 55% of the NEW Chrysler, with Fiat at 20%. How long do you think a Union can run a business? The people who buy new Jeeps for their original purpose no longer exist. Members of these Jeep chat rooms thrive on fixing up old Jeeps, which, unfortunately, are dwindling since they don't make new ones we can buy used later down the road. Land is becoming scarce as people keep having more babies than die off and plus the added immigrants, legal or illegal, keep wanting what we take for granted. For all who voted for change by voting Obama - you're getting what you asked for. The immigrants will all become legal, the government will be in control of every business because they control the banks, and the armed forces are being cut back even though the dangers around the world increase. We don't have terrorists any more, we can't torture them (since they don't exist) to save a multitude of lives, and we are letting them go free - no harm, no foul. Yeah 'Bama! http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090430/CARNEWS/304309998 I don't have a carbon footprint... I drive everywhere I go! tm / Houston / 85 Jeep Cherokee, 2 dr. 2.5L, 4x4 Christopher Wilson wrote: > I'm hoping that Jeep will be either spun off or given enough creative > control to return them to their roots. Making 'Jeeps" based on Dodge cars > is a disaster. > > On 4/30/09, john wrote: > >> Chrysler deserves it for what they did to Jeep... >> >> first the ZJ, then the KJ, then the WK... bleech. >> or worse, they killed the SJ, the XJ, the MJ and the WJ. >> >> which offense is worse? creating things that gave Jeep a bad >> name and ruined the marque, or killing classics? >> >> not to mention changing model designators so they did not follow >> a time honored tradition... using "J". >> >> Who might be worthy of rescuing Jeep? >> Certainly NOT Fiat... or Renault... >> >> welcome to the brave new world of government controlled capitalism, >> they have a name for it, but it escapes me right now... >> >> >> ----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: >> # > From: BreakingNews-at-mail.cnn.com >> # > Subject: CNN Breaking News >> # > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:04:57 -0700 >> # > -- Obama administration official: Chrysler will file for bankruptcy now >> that >> # negotiations with creditors have collapsed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:34:49 -0500 From: David Bierschank Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy I have not been a fan of the newer Jeeps either. In looking to replace my stolen Jeep XJ, one the has been near the top of my list has been the 4 door Wranglers. So the timing on this bankruptcy is concerning to me. It is no doubt the best thing for the Jeep line. I too hope the someone that "cares" about what makes a "real" Jeep will pick up that line and get it out or the hands of Chrysler. I still plan on going to test drive one the the Wranglers and it is still on my list, but makes me a little uncomfortable. I also plan on driving the 09 Subaru Forester. I looked on over the other day and it seems to be an interesting crossover. Whatever I buy will be for my wife, with no intentions of "wheeling", just driving around town and sometimes in the snow and a couple of times a year in the back mountain roads of Colorado. David On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:30 PM, john wrote: > amen. > > IFS does NOT belong on a jeep either... > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Christopher Wilson wrote: > > # I'm hoping that Jeep will be either spun off or given enough creative > # control to return them to their roots. Making 'Jeeps" based on Dodge > cars > # is a disaster. > # > - -- David Bierschank Okiebinder okc67mustang-at-gmail.com dbier-at-att.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:32:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Chrysler files bankruptcy there's lots of land available, it's all locked up behind those gates they put on public land to keep us from enjoying the nice views from the forest service roads... take a drive across the US and take note of how much open space there is... especially out west... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Tom Moulder wrote: # If anything killed the automakers, it's the $4 gas last year, union's, # and the people who insist on 10 mpg vehicles. Jeeps have been through # AMC, Renault, Chrysler, Mercedes, Cerberus, and now the UAW owns 55% of # the NEW Chrysler, with Fiat at 20%. How long do you think a Union can # run a business? # # The people who buy new Jeeps for their original purpose no longer exist. # Members of these Jeep chat rooms thrive on fixing up old Jeeps, which, # unfortunately, are dwindling since they don't make new ones we can buy # used later down the road. Land is becoming scarce as people keep having # more babies than die off and plus the added immigrants, legal or # illegal, keep wanting what we take for granted. For all who voted for # change by voting Obama - you're getting what you asked for. The # immigrants will all become legal, the government will be in control of # every business because they control the banks, and the armed forces are # being cut back even though the dangers around the world increase. We # don't have terrorists any more, we can't torture them (since they don't # exist) to save a multitude of lives, and we are letting them go free - # no harm, no foul. Yeah 'Bama! # # http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090430/CARNEWS/304309998 # # I don't have a carbon footprint... I drive everywhere I go! # # tm / Houston / 85 Jeep Cherokee, 2 dr. 2.5L, 4x4 # # # # Christopher Wilson wrote: # > I'm hoping that Jeep will be either spun off or given enough creative # > control to return them to their roots. Making 'Jeeps" based on Dodge cars # > is a disaster. # > # > On 4/30/09, john wrote: # > # >> Chrysler deserves it for what they did to Jeep... # >> # >> first the ZJ, then the KJ, then the WK... bleech. # >> or worse, they killed the SJ, the XJ, the MJ and the WJ. # >> # >> which offense is worse? creating things that gave Jeep a bad # >> name and ruined the marque, or killing classics? # >> # >> not to mention changing model designators so they did not follow # >> a time honored tradition... using "J". # >> # >> Who might be worthy of rescuing Jeep? # >> Certainly NOT Fiat... or Renault... # >> # >> welcome to the brave new world of government controlled capitalism, # >> they have a name for it, but it escapes me right now... # >> # >> # >> ----- # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> # >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # >> # > From: BreakingNews-at-mail.cnn.com # >> # > Subject: CNN Breaking News # >> # > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:04:57 -0700 # >> # > -- Obama administration official: Chrysler will file for bankruptcy now # >> that # >> # negotiations with creditors have collapsed. # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:35:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremiah Westpfahl Subject: xj: RE: fsj: Cummins 6AT compared to Nissan SD33 (and 4.2) John: Didn't know if someone's already mentioned it or not, but the late 70s/early 80s AMCs with the Iron Duke engine & stickshifts had standard pattern chevy bellhousings. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:25:52 -0500 From: Tom Moulder Subject: xj: abundance of nature I live in Texas and have been in every state except Alaska. The problem is that a few bad apples trash the land and leave it worse than when they arrived. Groups like ARRA are trying to gain access while all the people who believe in the global warming crap are against any motorized vehicle going anywhere. I bought my Jeep when I went to Big Bend and a lot of the roads said 4 wheel drive only. Having a Toyota Supra and not wanting to be denied, I bought the Jeep. Some day, I may get back there with it. Probably be closed by then. I will state I'm not a fan of these 4 wheel motor cycle engined 2 stroke vehicles whinnying around the countryside chasing rabbits to watch their hearts explode. It's all about respect. If you respect the wild and living creatures - flora and fauna, you should be able to enjoy them close up. I don't have a carbon footprint... I drive everywhere I go! tm / Houston / 85 Jeep Cherokee, 2 dr. 2.5L, 4x4 john wrote: > there's lots of land available, it's all locked up behind those > gates they put on public land to keep us from enjoying the nice > views from the forest service roads... > > take a drive across the US and take note of how much open space there > is... especially out west... > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:26:20 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: xj: Diesel options found a nice looking '94 3/4t Suburban 6.5L TD... has bare metal floor in back with barn doors... supposedly a barrel will fit easily in the back... has a receiver hitch... owner claims 17 mpg around town... so, if a barrel fits in the back easily I may give up on trying to build another Diesel rig... it's a bit large, but it does have leather seats... ;) the other option is an extended cab Diesel pickup... Dodge or Chevy or even Ford... but they are typically longer than a Suburban and less useful overall. having a limited budget... so far the sub seems to make sense... my wife was mildly upset with me for selling the blazer, the ride was quite nice... being a 2 door made it hard to use, the lift gate setup was ok, but hard to reach over for me, being vertically challenged and all.. :) anyway, with me, it's all about economy... and Diesel... the tug is fun, but not very refined and limited in what it can do... can't tow... can't carry passengers, lumber, topsoil or gravel... hauls barrels well though... but it's economy isn't superlative, and I'm giving up a lot of creature comforts for it... time for a reality check I guess. :) the tug is averaging around 17 mpg... but it's still all over the place yet... (hard to get consistent refills with the current tank). It should get about 20 mpg in town... but running BioDiesel seems to knock 2 to 3 mpg off because of the quality of oil we've been getting... no big deal, still a good deal. :) average mileage on the tug has been about 17.26 overall: 12.26 20.42 14.38 16.99 the '94 6.5L Diesel blazer got about 16 overall: 15.89 16.55 14.63 19.54 17.43 16.62 19.58 21.38 14.47 17.20 15.02 14.24 13.90 12.74 13.43 16.21 16.68 (in town it looks like it was in the 13 to 15 range most of the time) omega ('91 Grand Wagoneer with a 6.2L Diesel) got about 16 overall: 16.17 15.80 18.82 14.93 16.33 11.71 23.42 23.75 15.62 14.63 14.70 10.39 (typical in town was in the 14-15 mpg range) my gas powered '83 J10 stepside with a 4.2L/T5 got about 13-14 over all... 13.84 15.15 15.51 15.22 14.73 14.19 19.37 14.33 14.36 13.64 14.59 12.53 13.37 14.01 had one XJ that got 17 in town consistently, with 31's and 3.31s... another one that got 14 (30's and 4.10s)... have had three Diesel Blazers/Jimmys... 14-19 around town... so 17 is quite realistic. so if the sub actually could get 17 around town it's better than the tug, the blazer or the GW... there are variations in vehicles, have seen it in my own fleet... problem will be my wife probably will refuse to drive the sub and we'll have the WJ, the 300D and the sub... arrghhh... :) Building another Diesel project will probably not get me any better mileage, will cost a bloody fortune and take a lot of time... maybe I'm getting old... busting knuckles isn't as much fun as it used to be... but then again, what else would I do with my free time? well... I can think of a number of things actually... :) Don't get me wrong, I've had a blast building up these rigs and will probably always have a project rig in my shop... love tinkering... trying to find/build the perfect multipurpose Diesel 4x4 is a great engineering challenge... and provides plenty of hours of entertainment for my friends... ;) Anyone have a Diesel Suburban with a 6.5 that can verify if 17 mpg in town is even possible? The seller isn't exactly a gear head... this is just another random Diesel thought, a lunch time look... one of these days I am going to find a perfect fit Diesel 4x4... have come close on a few times... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 06:05:01 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #2999 *************************