From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 16 14:30:15 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Tuesday, June 16 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3019 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Ethanol in the fuel (and BioDiesel) Re: xj: Re: fsj: Ethanol in the fuel (and BioDiesel) Re: xj: Re: fsj: Ethanol in the fuel (and BioDiesel) xj: Cracked head... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Ethanol in the fuel (and BioDiesel) ethanol, they use it in gasoline engines... and there are cherokees with Diesels out there, right Stephen? ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, ernest breakfield wrote: # (not sure why i'm getting this on an XJ list, but in the sake of # dispelling some less-than-accurate information,...) # # BioD eating fuel hoses is a greatly overhyped issue; many people in # the BioDiesel fleet here (in Berkeley) initially fell victim to the same # paranoia, though most have become wiser to the reality in the last few # years. # # firstly, it's unlikely fuel lines will fail catastrophically; they # begin to seep long before they actually leak. # # when i got our MBZ 300D and started using B99 in it i decided i'd # watch the fuel lines (like i would with any 20 year old car) to see when # they'd need replacing. over 5 years and 60,000 miles of almost # exclusively B99 later there's been no problem, and i'm still waiting for # any indication that they need any attention. # # # cheers! # e # # # diesel john wrote: # > excellent info (below sig file), sharing... thanx curtis... # > # > one of the issues I've heard of is that rubber is affected by ethanol, # > I KNOW that BioDiesel will melt/dissolve rubber... # > # > had to convert my Diesels to steel lines or Viton or synthetic o-rings... # > # > Omega had fits with the rubber line going into the lift pump... # > the new owners also sprang a leak going into the lift pump... ultimately that spill # > caused the rubber belt to fail on the freeway... :( # > # > # > And on my '91 300D, I had to replace the high pressure seals in my injection pump # > because of WVO and BioDiesel: # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/ # > # > # > On my '91 300D which is run almost exclusively on BioDiesel, see the filler neck: # > looks like something out of a Salvador Dali painting... # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/benz-pipe-n-filler/P1090360.jpg # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/benz-pipe-n-filler/ # > # > # > so, if you're gonna use Alternate fuels, gas or Diesel, do NOT use rubber. # > # > Viton is the synthetic of choice for BioDiesel, suspect it'll work fine for Ethanol as well... # > it's not cheap, but you get to avoid all that fun on the roadside... or worse the waiting # > room of a mechanics shop if you can't fix it yourself... # > # > john # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Curtis wrote: # > # > The last several months has shown a increased concern for ethanol in the gas # > and what it means for us with older vehicles. I have been sent information # > from many legitimate sources of the cause and effect of the problem and some # > solutions. I take with a grain of salt , as should you, any article that # > names specific products as some of these articles come from parts suppliers. # > I do not doubt the information given as many sources and independent tests # > are giving very similar results, I just tend to think they mention the # > specific products that they sell. So there is the disclaimer. The # > information before the sales pitch tends to be reliable so I thought I would # > share. Here is a web address for an article by MOSS MOTORS. You will # > probably need to copy and paste into your browser. # > # > http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Ethanol.html?utm_source=British174bs&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Emailer # > # > They are a British car supplier I have used for more than 25 years (Wow, did # > I really say that out loud?) and it tends to British specific, but the # > information still applies to us. I have other articles that read essentially # > the same way that unfortunately are not as easy to pass along. Supposedly # > here in Washington, according to our government, we have been using ethanol # > mix for decades. But for some reason, like the rest of the country,our # > gasoline has turned to crap causing seemingly no end of problems for the past # > 6 months or more. Since we drive older vehicles it impacts us especially # > hard so I thought I would share what information I can. # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:44:51 -0700 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Ethanol in the fuel (and BioDiesel) uh, yeah, OK,... (only found this in the trash by accident anyway; 'shotgun' posts addressed to "undisclosed recipients" are automatically deleted.) cheers! e john wrote: > ethanol, they use it in gasoline engines... > and there are cherokees with Diesels out there, right Stephen? ;) > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, ernest breakfield wrote: > > # (not sure why i'm getting this on an XJ list, but in the sake of > # dispelling some less-than-accurate information,...) > # > # BioD eating fuel hoses is a greatly overhyped issue; many people in > # the BioDiesel fleet here (in Berkeley) initially fell victim to the same > # paranoia, though most have become wiser to the reality in the last few > # years. > # > # firstly, it's unlikely fuel lines will fail catastrophically; they > # begin to seep long before they actually leak. > # > # when i got our MBZ 300D and started using B99 in it i decided i'd > # watch the fuel lines (like i would with any 20 year old car) to see when > # they'd need replacing. over 5 years and 60,000 miles of almost > # exclusively B99 later there's been no problem, and i'm still waiting for > # any indication that they need any attention. > # > # > # cheers! > # e > # > # > # diesel john wrote: > # > excellent info (below sig file), sharing... thanx curtis... > # > > # > one of the issues I've heard of is that rubber is affected by ethanol, > # > I KNOW that BioDiesel will melt/dissolve rubber... > # > > # > had to convert my Diesels to steel lines or Viton or synthetic o-rings... > # > > # > Omega had fits with the rubber line going into the lift pump... > # > the new owners also sprang a leak going into the lift pump... ultimately that spill > # > caused the rubber belt to fail on the freeway... :( > # > > # > > # > And on my '91 300D, I had to replace the high pressure seals in my injection pump > # > because of WVO and BioDiesel: > # > > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/ > # > > # > > # > On my '91 300D which is run almost exclusively on BioDiesel, see the filler neck: > # > looks like something out of a Salvador Dali painting... > # > > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/benz-pipe-n-filler/P1090360.jpg > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/benz-pipe-n-filler/ > # > > # > > # > so, if you're gonna use Alternate fuels, gas or Diesel, do NOT use rubber. > # > > # > Viton is the synthetic of choice for BioDiesel, suspect it'll work fine for Ethanol as well... > # > it's not cheap, but you get to avoid all that fun on the roadside... or worse the waiting > # > room of a mechanics shop if you can't fix it yourself... > # > > # > john > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Curtis wrote: > # > > # > The last several months has shown a increased concern for ethanol in the gas > # > and what it means for us with older vehicles. I have been sent information > # > from many legitimate sources of the cause and effect of the problem and some > # > solutions. I take with a grain of salt , as should you, any article that > # > names specific products as some of these articles come from parts suppliers. > # > I do not doubt the information given as many sources and independent tests > # > are giving very similar results, I just tend to think they mention the > # > specific products that they sell. So there is the disclaimer. The > # > information before the sales pitch tends to be reliable so I thought I would > # > share. Here is a web address for an article by MOSS MOTORS. You will > # > probably need to copy and paste into your browser. > # > > # > http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Ethanol.html?utm_source=British174bs&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Emailer > # > > # > They are a British car supplier I have used for more than 25 years (Wow, did > # > I really say that out loud?) and it tends to British specific, but the > # > information still applies to us. I have other articles that read essentially > # > the same way that unfortunately are not as easy to pass along. Supposedly > # > here in Washington, according to our government, we have been using ethanol > # > mix for decades. But for some reason, like the rest of the country,our > # > gasoline has turned to crap causing seemingly no end of problems for the past > # > 6 months or more. Since we drive older vehicles it impacts us especially > # > hard so I thought I would share what information I can. > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:04:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Ethanol in the fuel (and BioDiesel) mercedes seems to use something other than rubber, have not had trouble with my '91 300d, other than a few o-rings and the filler... the return lines on the injectors seem to be synthetic, never had trouble with them. my 6.2 Diesel gave me fits on the rubber line going into the lift pump and on the return lines though, didn't fail catastrophically, but sure made a mess of things and kept it from idling... it would stall every time I came to a stop... had to bump my idle way up to keep it running... not fun at all... didn't realize what was going on at first. also, on the xj injectors there is the possibility of the o-rings failing internally from ethanol, may be more an issue on earlier GM engines. I had trouble with o-rings on my 4.0s but wasn't doing alternate fuels back then. Oh wait, that's when we had ethanol added for emissions during the winter, so I was an unwilling participant in alternate fuel... replaced with synthetic o-rings and never had trouble again... I use BCC on many emails to prevent those folks that feel they must respond from annoying friends with similar interests... some of us actually communicate with more than one select group of folks at a time... common interests, like fuels... you sure seem to be a grotchy cuss sometimes... ;) lighten up... cheers! ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, ernest breakfield wrote: # uh, yeah, OK,... # # (only found this in the trash by accident anyway; 'shotgun' posts # addressed to "undisclosed recipients" are automatically deleted.) # # # cheers! # e # # # john wrote: # > ethanol, they use it in gasoline engines... # > and there are cherokees with Diesels out there, right Stephen? ;) # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, ernest breakfield wrote: # > # > # (not sure why i'm getting this on an XJ list, but in the sake of # > # dispelling some less-than-accurate information,...) # > # # > # BioD eating fuel hoses is a greatly overhyped issue; many people in # > # the BioDiesel fleet here (in Berkeley) initially fell victim to the same # > # paranoia, though most have become wiser to the reality in the last few # > # years. # > # # > # firstly, it's unlikely fuel lines will fail catastrophically; they # > # begin to seep long before they actually leak. # > # # > # when i got our MBZ 300D and started using B99 in it i decided i'd # > # watch the fuel lines (like i would with any 20 year old car) to see when # > # they'd need replacing. over 5 years and 60,000 miles of almost # > # exclusively B99 later there's been no problem, and i'm still waiting for # > # any indication that they need any attention. # > # # > # # > # cheers! # > # e # > # # > # # > # diesel john wrote: # > # > excellent info (below sig file), sharing... thanx curtis... # > # > # > # > one of the issues I've heard of is that rubber is affected by ethanol, # > # > I KNOW that BioDiesel will melt/dissolve rubber... # > # > # > # > had to convert my Diesels to steel lines or Viton or synthetic o-rings... # > # > # > # > Omega had fits with the rubber line going into the lift pump... # > # > the new owners also sprang a leak going into the lift pump... ultimately that spill # > # > caused the rubber belt to fail on the freeway... :( # > # > # > # > # > # > And on my '91 300D, I had to replace the high pressure seals in my injection pump # > # > because of WVO and BioDiesel: # > # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement/ # > # > # > # > # > # > On my '91 300D which is run almost exclusively on BioDiesel, see the filler neck: # > # > looks like something out of a Salvador Dali painting... # > # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/benz-pipe-n-filler/P1090360.jpg # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/benz-pipe-n-filler/ # > # > # > # > # > # > so, if you're gonna use Alternate fuels, gas or Diesel, do NOT use rubber. # > # > # > # > Viton is the synthetic of choice for BioDiesel, suspect it'll work fine for Ethanol as well... # > # > it's not cheap, but you get to avoid all that fun on the roadside... or worse the waiting # > # > room of a mechanics shop if you can't fix it yourself... # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Curtis wrote: # > # > # > # > The last several months has shown a increased concern for ethanol in the gas # > # > and what it means for us with older vehicles. I have been sent information # > # > from many legitimate sources of the cause and effect of the problem and some # > # > solutions. I take with a grain of salt , as should you, any article that # > # > names specific products as some of these articles come from parts suppliers. # > # > I do not doubt the information given as many sources and independent tests # > # > are giving very similar results, I just tend to think they mention the # > # > specific products that they sell. So there is the disclaimer. The # > # > information before the sales pitch tends to be reliable so I thought I would # > # > share. Here is a web address for an article by MOSS MOTORS. You will # > # > probably need to copy and paste into your browser. # > # > # > # > http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Ethanol.html?utm_source=British174bs&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Emailer # > # > # > # > They are a British car supplier I have used for more than 25 years (Wow, did # > # > I really say that out loud?) and it tends to British specific, but the # > # > information still applies to us. I have other articles that read essentially # > # > the same way that unfortunately are not as easy to pass along. Supposedly # > # > here in Washington, according to our government, we have been using ethanol # > # > mix for decades. But for some reason, like the rest of the country,our # > # > gasoline has turned to crap causing seemingly no end of problems for the past # > # > 6 months or more. Since we drive older vehicles it impacts us especially # > # > hard so I thought I would share what information I can. # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:28:10 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: xj: Cracked head... Gah.. think I've a cracked head in the Heep (2.5 VM diesel) .. It boiled over and left me stranded with our hungry 7 month old an hour from home on Sunday night. We were on our way back from the airport having had 2 flights already that day... typical.. heh Had it flat bedded back and have been too disgusted with it to even look at it since. Found myself leafing through the local Autotrader today.. '88 Daimler 3.6, immaculate inside and out.. 1200stlg .. hmmm.. Meh, the weather forecast for the weekend is good, I'll attack it then. Steve ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3019 *************************