From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 30 23:08:01 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, July 1 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3033 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: HB JB Re: xj: fsj: A thought on why Americans don't have a good diesel option (fwd) xj: Re: Have a diesel? (Silverdale) Re: xj: fsj: A thought on why Americans don't have a good diesel option (fwd) xj: RE: [db] Re: Have a diesel? (Silverdale) xj: administrivia: notes on using this list XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:18:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: HB JB day late, but happy birthday jim... was going to post this yesterday but went for a drive in my Diesel Jeep instead... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:50:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: fsj: A thought on why Americans don't have a good diesel option (fwd) Interesting read, unfortunately, the writer does nothing to support his thesis that Ralph Nader is the reason why we don't have a good diesel engine...I would have really liked to have read that dissertation! Of couse, that thesis could be self evident, knowing what I know about Ralph Nader ;-) I think that the main problem here in the "States" is that we have a completely different mind-set on "work". Looking at other G8 country workers (unfortunately, most American executives compare their workers to 3rd world country workers), the manner in which those workers perform their daily task, working for a corporation is very different than how we work in America. I've heard it said from a very wise man that Americans are the hardest working people he's ever seen...but from my perspective, we really don't produce the amount of output to justify the amount of work we do (kinda like when you compare the coefficient of energy when looking at an internal combustion engine or a solar cell....which remarkably are very similar in output percentages!) In other words, Americans should be getting more value out of the work they are doing. Compare this to the German or French minimalistic work week...and their many paid holidays...Now granted...I'm not all that familiar with today's working German, but I know that my relatives (who are now in their 50s and 60s) have at most, had perhaps one or two carreer employment positions in their entire professional carreer.. They were always home for dinner, and spend weeks a time at exotic vacation spots like Tenneriff and Mikonos. There is an intrinsic sense of loyalty between the employee and employer! My two uncles, working for different companies were both retired before they hit 60. And in fact, one uncle retired at 45...IBM paid him a bonus for early retirement and for the last 15 years has been touring Germany with his cover band! Then look at Japanese workers...perhaps even harder workers than even Americans...There is a completly different mindset...but again, there's that sense of loyalty...And there's something else...an idea that has a single word in Japanese...Kaizen...This is the idea that just because it ain't broke, doesn't mean it can't be made more efficient or better in some way! In other words, they don't "settle" for "good enough". This is something I see more and more in American companies..just good enough is acceptable (this is particularly rife in local and county government). And company loyalty in the United States has all but disappeared since the 70s. And this I think is the biggest issue facing the American corporations. People who are in it for the short term. Get in, make money, and get out...and if you can do that in 5 years, good for you! And this happens at the C*O level and the employee level. I've had coworkers who have had 15 jobs and they aren't even 35 yet! This is a serious brain-drain that takes a department a considerable amount of time to recoup. Everybody reaches for the brass ring and when they get it, they think the ride is over and get off to the next big thing. Perhaps Americans need a little more "Kaizen" and a little less "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it" attitude. Ed web/gadget guru - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ By Richard Feynman, Physicist, Nobel winner (1918-1988) "There are 10^11 stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." - --- On Mon, 6/29/09, john wrote: From: john Subject: xj: fsj: A thought on why Americans don't have a good diesel option (fwd) To: Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 11:14 AM got this from a friend on the FSJ list... long story, but he was in college when I started the FSJ list... he decided to get his engineering degree and move to Detroit... needless to say, he's no longer in detroit an no longer working on cars... reading through this I see the same thing happening in aerospace and other industries... outsourcing, government regulations and unions are killing us. We must use outsourcing wisely, we must update our government regulations or reduce them and we need to move away from the idea that unions add benefit, as they are as bad or worse than present day management, and of course managers and executives need to rethink what they're real value is to the company and perhaps restructure their salary and bonuses a bit... not advocating a Ben-and-Jerry seven times limit or anything like that, but why should a guy sitting in a chair make hundreds of millions of dollars while others are doing the real work? Government intervention in business is simply not a good idea... businesses need to fail on their own. The Government should protect businesses from foreign unfair trade practices like dumping. (where a foreign competitor sells product below THEIR cost in order to win market share to drive competitors out of the market... e.g., what the Japanese were doing with DRAMS in the mid-80s...) It's a complex mess with no simple answers, we've taken years to get where we are at... we should look at the history of British Leyland to get an idea of how government and unions impacted them... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: I thought I should comment on why Americans don't have a lot of good Diesel options. The short answer is because Ralph Nader is a very narcissistic man. The long answer goes like this. And I will preface this with my background...I worked in Detroit in the automobile industry for about eight years. I was an engineer who developed airbags, instrument panels (dashboards to the outside world), and for a brief period seat belts. I dealt daily with government regulations dealing with safety systems. I also aquired a level of familiarity with european safety regulations dealing with export stuff. I could give you all a lot of history, but the punch line is that the core of the government regulations have not been re-written. They have been added to and amended, but to this day are still really written around 1960's technology. I did deal with complying technology that hadn't been invented in 1967 to a spec written about a technology that had gone out of date by the mid 1970's (but you could still find it on our Wagoneers and J-10's and SJ Cherokees for a few more years...I am talking about the dash pad with steel as the substrate under the foam and it's potential flamability) There was a lot of disagreement on how to interpret that spec and a lot of money was unnecessarily spent retesting a known commodity. European regulations were by in large written a good ten years after the American specs and are by in large just more modern in their philosophy. (Europe only does belted crash testing). I know that European emissions specs also came much later from restoring European cars. (the Euro-spec versions of the same car were often more powerful through the 70's and into the 80's) By the time the Europeans got around to writing emissions specs the Arab oil embargo of the 1970's had already occurred and they understood the need for real efficiency. Another issue is that Detroit has largely outsourced all engineering and the Fords the GMs and the Chryslers of the world are largely unaware of what their supply base can actually do or what the real cost and value of modern technology really is. The Detroit three spends too much effort beating up the supply base on cost and almost no effort on innovation and because everybody uses the same suppliers everybody gets the same technology. Many of the internal specs are dated as well and it's hard to explain to somone that isn't really sure what you are talking about in the first place that you? can't test modern parts?to spec for a technology that disappeared when Reagan was in office and was really last Relevant when Nixon was in office. Detroit needs a leader who decides that it's time to build a great car. Washington needs to re-write the regs to allow detroit to build that car. and the Unions need to understand that half of nothing is nothing. Mark Wallace 81 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:38:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: Have a diesel? (Silverdale) they don't have an entry for the most unusual Diesel... :) this would be Saturday... a major Diesel fest... hmmm.... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, carnuck-at-hotmail.com wrote: # carnuck-at-hotmail.com has forwarded you this craigslist.org posting. # # Have a diesel? # # Reply to: sale-kfvtv-1245012699-at-craigslist.org # Date: 2009-06-29, 7:36AM # # Bring it on out to 8000 Nels Nelson Road, Bremerton (Silverdale) on July 4! If it's pretty, enter the Show-n-shine (noon to 2pm). If it's for sale, park it with a sign. Whether you use it as a tool or your life revolves around it, come out and meet other diesel enthusiasts like you! # We're having a chili competition, so if you cook show us your stuff! Food will be potluck-style, and chili will be shared after judging at 3pm. # Live band "Knucklehead" is playing in the evening! # We have six plaques for the show: Best Dodge Cummins, Best Chevy Duramax, Best Ford Powerstroke, Best Alternative Diesel, Best in Show, and People's Choice. Everything from tractors to big rigs are welcome. # This is a campout too, so come ready to stay if you like. # Visit the Northwest Bombers web site and look under Upcoming Events for details. # # Location: Silverdale # Original URL:http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/1245012699.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:48:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: fsj: A thought on why Americans don't have a good diesel option (fwd) Kaizen is more the concept of process improvement that involves everyone... you get input from everyone and by the time you've reached the specification phase you have everything you need to make it work... unlike more arrogant/ignorant approaches where you talk to a manager or an alleged SME and get his or her input whether or not they've done that work in the last ten years... I have a book titled Kaizen in my library, got it in come quality class... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Ed Kummel wrote: # Then look at Japanese workers...perhaps even harder workers than even # Americans...There is a completly different mindset...but again, there's that # sense of loyalty...And there's something else...an idea that has a single word # in Japanese...Kaizen...This is the idea that just because it ain't broke, # doesn't mean it can't be made more efficient or better in some way! In other # words, they don't "settle" for "good enough". This is something I see more and ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:41:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: RE: [db] Re: Have a diesel? (Silverdale) right oh... Jim B, you want to make sure they have a best Mercedes and JEEP category for us? I know how much you love this method of ignition... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Randy Bennell wrote: # What? No best MB. Better call and tell them to get with the program. # # Randy # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net # [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john # Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:39 PM # To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # Cc: diesel-benz list; full size jeep list; xj-list # Subject: [db] Re: Have a diesel? (Silverdale) # # # they don't have an entry for the most unusual Diesel... :) # this would be Saturday... a major Diesel fest... hmmm.... # # john # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, carnuck-at-hotmail.com wrote: # # carnuck-at-hotmail.com has forwarded you this craigslist.org posting. # # # # Have a diesel? # # # # Reply to: sale-kfvtv-1245012699-at-craigslist.org # # Date: 2009-06-29, 7:36AM # # # # Bring it on out to 8000 Nels Nelson Road, Bremerton (Silverdale) on July # 4! If it's pretty, enter the Show-n-shine (noon to 2pm). If it's for sale, # park it with a sign. Whether you use it as a tool or your life revolves # around it, come out and meet other diesel enthusiasts like you! # # We're having a chili competition, so if you cook show us your stuff! Food # will be potluck-style, and chili will be shared after judging at 3pm. # # Live band "Knucklehead" is playing in the evening! # # We have six plaques for the show: Best Dodge Cummins, Best Chevy Duramax, # Best Ford Powerstroke, Best Alternative Diesel, Best in Show, and People's # Choice. Everything from tractors to big rigs are welcome. # # This is a campout too, so come ready to stay if you like. # # Visit the Northwest Bombers web site and look under Upcoming Events for # details. # # # # Location: Silverdale # # Original URL:http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/1245012699.html # Checked by AVG - www.avg.com # Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: 06/29/09 # 05:54:00 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:05:01 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: xj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3033 *************************