From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 13 13:28:23 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, July 13 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3038 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) xj: Tail Gate Internals xj: Re: Tail Gate Internals Re: xj: Tail Gate Internals Re: xj: Re: Tail Gate Internals xj: catching up on pictures... Re: xj: Re: Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:06:36 -0400 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) No one ever mentions the "crapification" of the roads as an impetus for buying SUVs. Here in New England where it's far more important to spend tax $ on graft, you NEED a car with big diameter tires to live through the potholes and crappy road patches!!!! - -Don - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "undisclosed-recipients:" Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: xj: Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) > lasikeyes wrote: > > I was surprised to see #9: > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31688479/?pg=9#Biz_Detroit_killers_0907 > > The author hit the nail on the head as far as the underlying issues: > "How did all this happen? There are plenty of potential > culprits: management, the unions, the government." > (same thing impacting aerospace, mainly unions, tax structure of local > governments and excessive outsourcing in > response to the first two...) > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31688479/?pg=9#Biz_Detroit_killers_0907 > > I don't think the author was saying the Jeep Cherokee was bad, in fact, > its success seems to > have contributed to Detroit's failures... because the competitors > missed the mark on matching > what the Cherokee could do. And of course fuel economy has to factor > in... when you read > the next one in line, the Ford Explorer, the author points out issues > peculiar to the Explorer, > but seems to say all 4x4s are as dangerous, which to some extent is > true, but especially so > for the Explorer, it's handling characteristics, like that of the Bronco > II make this a truly frightening > vehicle to operate... I like the looks of both models, but having > driven a few I wouldn't own > one of them on a bet. > > 1. Chevrolet Vega - no surprise - aluminum block, very prone to rust, > very rare car now... > 2. Cadillac Cimarron - no surprise - what a piece of junque, a rebadged > Cavalier. > author also points out the V8 8-6-4 failure, fails to mention the > damage GM did to > the Diesel market around the same time with the ill-conceived > and poorly executed > 5.7L Diesel... by the time GM got the 5.7 working well they had > so damaged the entire > idea of Diesels in America that we still haven't realized how > much better they are than gas. > 3. Pontiac Aztek - looks like they stacked two vehicles on top of each > other... ugly as sin. > 4. Chevy Citation - ho hum > 5. Dodge Aires - massive quantity of K-car jokes for Red Green... > 6. Ford Fairmont - this was a good car when it came out, simple and > clean... but they held on too long to it.. > 7. Chrysler TC by Maserati - fix it again tony... didn't detroit learn > anything? going full circle with > the italians... F-i-a-tony... Will they find a suitable buyer for > the Jeep line before they totally destroy > this historical marque???? > 8. see below > 9. Ford Explorer - bad design, bad handling, bad tires... unsuspecting > gone turtle types... > 10. Ford Taurus - not mentioned, horribly bad handling, would fight you > in a curve, and a heater core > that requires dismantling the entire car if it leaks, which it will > because it's plastic... > > * > > 8. Jeep Cherokee > > *Chrysler also spent its cash buying American Motors, for the purpose of > acquiring Jeep. Jeep's Wrangler was a well-known entity, but the > surprise was the 1984 Cherokee. Sales of the little 4x4 station wagon > grew through the 1980s, as more people began to notice it as an > alternative to a car. Here was a potential family vehicle that had some > style and some attitude. The four-door version quickly outsold the > two-door model, and its popularity overshadowed the Ford Bronco II and > Chevrolet S-10 Blazer, which were only available as two door models. > Conventional wisdom to this point was that customers who bought what > were then called "four-wheel drives" were young and, like sport coupe > buyers, were more interested in sporty two-door styling than rear-seat > practicality. But families discovered the Cherokee and rivals noticed > the trend. Ford quickly prepared the four-door Explorer and the industry > raced toward its switch to truck sales because the Cherokee saw > unexpected demand for a new product -- the SUV. > > > -- > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:01:51 -0400 From: Colucci B Subject: xj: Tail Gate Internals Greetings To The XJ World! I have been pondering a new set of speakers for the 92 Chero. and wondering if anybody has put anything larger then those putrid 4'' speakers in the rear tail gate with any success. The key is I want to use the 4'' holes as a starting point for the larger speakers so I do not have to do as much fabrication work on the tail gate inner carpet covered, plastic face panel. So how much depth with the wiper motor and license plate inset do I have to play with? Will a 6x9 speaker fit nicely in the tail gate, or maybe a larger diameter round speaker? I would like to see some photos of those who might have had success on this endeavor. Until the next dimension, Admiral "Coluch." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:12:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: Tail Gate Internals on the newer xj's they had a speaker bar that went under the rear light... a 6x9 could be made to fit in there and will spare cracking the eggs in your groceries... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 12 Jul 2009, Colucci B wrote: # Greetings To The XJ World! # # I have been pondering a new set of speakers for the 92 Chero. and wondering # if anybody has put anything larger then those putrid 4'' speakers in the rear # tail gate with any success. The key is I want to use the 4'' holes as a # starting point for the larger speakers so I do not have to do as much # fabrication work on the tail gate inner carpet covered, plastic face panel. # # So how much depth with the wiper motor and license plate inset do I have to # play with? Will a 6x9 speaker fit nicely in the tail gate, or maybe a larger # diameter round speaker? I would like to see some photos of those who might # have had success on this endeavor. # # # Until the next dimension, # Admiral "Coluch." # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:13:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Tail Gate Internals looks like this: http://wagoneers.com/tmp/cl-items/xj-rear-spkrbase.jpg ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 12 Jul 2009, Colucci B wrote: # Greetings To The XJ World! # # I have been pondering a new set of speakers for the 92 Chero. and wondering # if anybody has put anything larger then those putrid 4'' speakers in the rear # tail gate with any success. The key is I want to use the 4'' holes as a # starting point for the larger speakers so I do not have to do as much # fabrication work on the tail gate inner carpet covered, plastic face panel. # # So how much depth with the wiper motor and license plate inset do I have to # play with? Will a 6x9 speaker fit nicely in the tail gate, or maybe a larger # diameter round speaker? I would like to see some photos of those who might # have had success on this endeavor. # # # Until the next dimension, # Admiral "Coluch." # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:28:30 +0000 (GMT) From: barbierij-at-optonline.net Subject: Re: xj: Re: Tail Gate Internals I was able to get 6 1/4" speakers in there, but the panel had to be cut a little to make it look normal. I second john's idea. I found one of those bars in the junk yard. I reuphostered it with fleece. Just make sure you take all the old glue off of the fiberglass before you reupholster. I used 3M super 77 to get it to stick. Still no problems. In this picture, the roof is fleece...put the bar in and realized i should have done that too. Now it looks awesome. http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/Jesse-85/jesse-87-soundbar.JPG Plus, it sounds alot better in there. Make some custom boxes for 8" subs while you are at it. Doesnt take up much room the way I did it, and people were always expecting to see 12" subs. http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/Jesse-85/jesse-87-8inchsub2.JPG Jesse. - ----- Original Message ----- From: john Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:08 pm Subject: xj: Re: Tail Gate Internals To: Colucci B Cc: XJ GROUP > on the newer xj's they had a speaker bar that went under the > rear light... a 6x9 could be made to fit in there and will > spare cracking the eggs in your groceries... ;) > > > > ----- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > On Sun, 12 Jul 2009, Colucci B wrote: > > # Greetings To The XJ World! > # > # I have been pondering a new set of speakers for the 92 Chero. > and wondering > # if anybody has put anything larger then those putrid 4'' > speakers in the rear > # tail gate with any success. The key is I want to use the 4'' > holes as a > # starting point for the larger speakers so I do not have to do > as much > # fabrication work on the tail gate inner carpet covered, > plastic face panel. > # > # So how much depth with the wiper motor and license plate > inset do I have to > # play with? Will a 6x9 speaker fit nicely in the tail gate, > or maybe a larger > # diameter round speaker? I would like to see some photos of > those who might > # have had success on this endeavor. > # > # > # Until the next dimension, > # Admiral "Coluch." > # > Jesse Barbieri A+, Network+, MCP, MCDST The Computer Works (518) 755-9625 Rosendale, NY 12472 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:57:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: catching up on pictures... been under the weather for a week or so, respiratory issues... not enough rain and too many fireworks... starting to come back around, thankfully, raining today! one benefit of trying to hack up a lung in the middle of the night is that I was up early enough to see a pre-dawn clear sky and Venus... :) (yes, my camera goes with me just about every where... :) here's some pictures to catch up... http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/07-Jul-10-4am-Venus-Sunrise-JEM_1035.jpg http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/07-Jul-07-garden/ALL.html http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/07-Jul-05-jeep-cj10a-in-use/ http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/07-Jul-04-fireworks/ http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/06-Jun-28-drive-Bellevue-Seattle-Snohomish-Machias/ALL.html http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/06-Jun-21-garden-clouds/ALL.html in other news: - - ran the SD33T down to Centralia for the '83 J10 stepside project - - the '99 WJ is in the shop, axle bearings and seals, running great - - the '91 300d decided it didn't like air in it's tire... - - the '86 cj-10a's locking security console lock disintegrated, but last tank 21 mpg john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:38:42 -0700 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) seems that's a matter of perspective and/or expectations,... i've been passed while on a dirt road by old MBZs with a car load of people that do a fine job of handling the dirt roads we were on in Greece at the time, and experienced the same thing in several other less developed countries as well. either Detroit has people convinced that they need a truck to handle real world roads because they can't/won't make a car suspension that will handle it (although world-market companies like MBZ were obviously already doing it decades ago), and/or people don't want to pay what it takes to make a suspension system like what MBZ figured out decades ago. seems we can have cheap cars or cheap roads; just not both. cheers! e Don Hansen wrote: > No one ever mentions the "crapification" of the roads as an impetus > for buying SUVs. Here in New England where it's far more important to > spend tax $ on graft, you NEED a car with big diameter tires to live > through the potholes and crappy road patches!!!! > > -Don > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > To: "undisclosed-recipients:" > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: xj: Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) > > >> lasikeyes wrote: >> > I was surprised to see #9: >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31688479/?pg=9#Biz_Detroit_killers_0907 >> >> The author hit the nail on the head as far as the underlying issues: >> "How did all this happen? There are plenty of potential >> culprits: management, the unions, the government." >> (same thing impacting aerospace, mainly unions, tax structure of local >> governments and excessive outsourcing in >> response to the first two...) >> >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31688479/?pg=9#Biz_Detroit_killers_0907 >> >> I don't think the author was saying the Jeep Cherokee was bad, in fact, >> its success seems to >> have contributed to Detroit's failures... because the competitors >> missed the mark on matching >> what the Cherokee could do. And of course fuel economy has to factor >> in... when you read >> the next one in line, the Ford Explorer, the author points out issues >> peculiar to the Explorer, >> but seems to say all 4x4s are as dangerous, which to some extent is >> true, but especially so >> for the Explorer, it's handling characteristics, like that of the Bronco >> II make this a truly frightening >> vehicle to operate... I like the looks of both models, but having >> driven a few I wouldn't own >> one of them on a bet. >> >> 1. Chevrolet Vega - no surprise - aluminum block, very prone to rust, >> very rare car now... >> 2. Cadillac Cimarron - no surprise - what a piece of junque, a rebadged >> Cavalier. >> author also points out the V8 8-6-4 failure, fails to mention the >> damage GM did to >> the Diesel market around the same time with the ill-conceived >> and poorly executed >> 5.7L Diesel... by the time GM got the 5.7 working well they had >> so damaged the entire >> idea of Diesels in America that we still haven't realized how >> much better they are than gas. >> 3. Pontiac Aztek - looks like they stacked two vehicles on top of each >> other... ugly as sin. >> 4. Chevy Citation - ho hum >> 5. Dodge Aires - massive quantity of K-car jokes for Red Green... >> 6. Ford Fairmont - this was a good car when it came out, simple and >> clean... but they held on too long to it.. >> 7. Chrysler TC by Maserati - fix it again tony... didn't detroit learn >> anything? going full circle with >> the italians... F-i-a-tony... Will they find a suitable buyer for >> the Jeep line before they totally destroy >> this historical marque???? >> 8. see below >> 9. Ford Explorer - bad design, bad handling, bad tires... unsuspecting >> gone turtle types... >> 10. Ford Taurus - not mentioned, horribly bad handling, would fight you >> in a curve, and a heater core >> that requires dismantling the entire car if it leaks, which it will >> because it's plastic... >> >> * >> >> 8. Jeep Cherokee >> >> *Chrysler also spent its cash buying American Motors, for the purpose of >> acquiring Jeep. Jeep's Wrangler was a well-known entity, but the >> surprise was the 1984 Cherokee. Sales of the little 4x4 station wagon >> grew through the 1980s, as more people began to notice it as an >> alternative to a car. Here was a potential family vehicle that had some >> style and some attitude. The four-door version quickly outsold the >> two-door model, and its popularity overshadowed the Ford Bronco II and >> Chevrolet S-10 Blazer, which were only available as two door models. >> Conventional wisdom to this point was that customers who bought what >> were then called "four-wheel drives" were young and, like sport coupe >> buyers, were more interested in sporty two-door styling than rear-seat >> practicality. But families discovered the Cherokee and rivals noticed >> the trend. Ford quickly prepared the four-door Explorer and the industry >> raced toward its switch to truck sales because the Cherokee saw >> unexpected demand for a new product -- the SUV. >> >> >> -- >> ----- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3038 *************************