From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Aug 10 15:00:15 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, August 10 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3057 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:49:51 -0500 From: David Bierschank Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? I tend to agree..... I really was not "looking" to buy yet anyway, which makes it much easier to walk away. I just happen to drive by and see this one. I think it would make a very nice Jeep, but I am not willing to take the risk, esp when the dealership will not take the chance on fixing something that is relatively small. I figure no one is going to by it with the two problems and a squalling belt.... if you fix the belt, you most likely fix the other two issues so why not do that for me and you close the deal....right now. Like I told you the other day, let me know when you want to sell yours and we'll talk, 'cause I really was not shopping yet. I will start looking in Seattle as well. David On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:40 PM, john wrote: > this is why I won't buy from a dealership... used car lots sometimes, if > the sales folks aren't total clueless bufoons... some are, some are not. > > you're better off buying from a private party, they are way more honest... > they may be more clueless about things mechanical and not reveal > everything, > but they are a far safer bet than a dealership... > > these guys can make a decent living by being honest and providing a bit > better service to car enthusiasts... like saving the original owners > manual, > the floor mats and other stuff instead of tossing it... > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, David Bierschank wrote: > > # Well I went and test drove the Jeep.... all was good, then I took it to > show > # the wife..... all was still good. As I was checking it out at the house > and > # the belt started to slip. Looking at it, it is cracked, and hard. On > the > # way back the A/C would not be as cold and the PS would go out from time > to > # time. > # > # This was a dealership..btw.... I told the salesman I would pay an > agreed > # price, if they would replace the belt. The dumb manager comes in and > says he > # would replace the belt but could not guaranty that the A/C and PS would > # work, would I still buy the car. I said not if the A/C and PS would > not > # work. He says this is an 13 year old car with almost 100k, sometimes > things > # don't work. > # > # He said he can not go around fixing used cars, to see if it fixed the > # problem. With the cost of the part and an hour and a half labor that he > # would have to pay the guys. I told him I could go down to Autozone for > $17 > # and put it on in under 10 min, but I understand he has to mark his stuff > up > # for profit. I said if you put the belt on and the AC and PS works I am > # paying cash for the car today. If not we don't have a deal. He said > "No", I > # said "okay then." > # > # I told the salesman when we went outside, "if he puts the belt on call > me > # and I will come drive the Jeep again." > # > # I really hate dealerships and their games!!! This was an easy > transaction, > # that they totally screwed up. > # > # So anyway.... still, lightly in the market for a Jeep. > # > # David > # > # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:20 PM, john wrote: > # > # > cats are easy to gut. > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, Kevin wrote: > # > > # > # Yes, three. On the Y2K cherokee my brother has, the exhaust > manifold is > # > # actually two separate manifolds (1,2,3 and 4,5,6) which each attach > to > # > the top > # > # of a cat. After gas flows through that cat, the pipes Y together > and > # > head to > # > # another cat, then the muffler. Naturally, the first two cats are > part of > # > the > # > # Y-pipe, so I figure that'll be nice and cheap to replace should it > # > require > # > # replacement. > # > # > # > # I figure that this is the primary reason that my trail beater will > # > absolutely > # > # roast my brother's jeep, and why there doesn't appear to be a > mileage > # > penalty > # > # driving the trail beater instead of my brother's. From a driveline > # > standpoint > # > # the two trucks are indentical, except the beater has been regeared > to > # > 4.10 > # > # gears and is locked front and rear. Beater's sitting on mud tires, > and > # > # my brother has stock sized michelins on his. > # > # > # > # I mean, the K&N that the trail beater has on it can't be > responsible for > # > the > # > # power difference, regardless of what K&N tells you ;) > # > # > # > # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:17:43AM -0500, David Bierschank wrote: > # > # > Yeah I guess I should have said.... > # > # > > # > # > This is just for a daily driver... > # > # > > # > # > This Jeep is Stock.... and all is supposed to work, but I will > still > # > check > # > # > it all out. > # > # > > # > # > Wow.... three CATS...... I really don't like even the one I have > and > # > most > # > # > cars. > # > # > # > > # > # > # > # > - -- David Bierschank Help me in reaching my goal on the MS Bike Ride from Tulsa to Oklahoma City http://tinyurl.com/OKMS150DavidB okc67mustang-at-gmail.com dbier-at-att.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:58:16 -0500 From: David Bierschank Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Ed, Yeah, I know, you would think a dealership would not mind putting a belt on a car to make the deal.... insane!! This is an auto mall type of a set up...... most manufactures (the ones that are left) are represented. It was on the used lot section of a Chevrolet lot. Jeep is in the next lot over. I am guessing that I will get a call when they replace the belt, to come have a look..... no one is going to buy it making that sound. If I was selling it personally, I would have been happy to try replacing the belt for a potential buyer. You know the more I think about this the madder I get..... I was not really even trying to get the price down, just wanted it to not make noise and operate safely.... not to much to ask! David On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Ed Kummel wrote: > This was at a dealership? A used car dealership or new? That doesn't really > make sense...if he's selling cars, then getting a car to work to sell is > his > business! > > I recently purchased a used car from a local used car dealer...everything > checked out when I test drove it, but like you, the belt was making noise > especially when the AC was turned on. I also noticed that there was a ding > in > the windshield. Told him that if he fixes those two things, I'll pay him > cash > right on the spot. He agreed, I signed the papers and handed him a stack of > hundreds. He was a little suprised...I told him...I said cash! > The next day, he called to say that the things were fixed and I went to get > it > and drove it home. > Unfortunately, the next day, the car died on the way to work...felt like it > ran out of gas...but there was at least a quarter tank in the car. I called > the dealership and he sent out a tow-truck...he said that if it turns out > that > it was out of gas, then I would pay for it...if it was something else, he > would pay for it...Turns out that the fuel pump is integral with the pickup > and the silicon seals swelled up and blocked the gas...he replaced the > pickup > and pump and didn't charge me (I only had it a day...) since then, the > thing's > been running great and that was about 8 months ago! I will patron him again > when I want another car...he stands behind his products and he has won a > customer... > Ed > web/gadget guru > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > By Richard Feynman, Physicist, Nobel winner (1918-1988) > > > "There are 10^11 stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But > it's > only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to > call > them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." > > --- On Mon, 8/10/09, David Bierschank wrote: > > From: David Bierschank > Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? > To: xj-at-digest.net > Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 4:50 PM > > Well I went and test drove the Jeep.... all was good, then I took it to > show > the wife..... all was still good. As I was checking it out at the house > and > the belt started to slip. Looking at it, it is cracked, and hard. On the > way back the A/C would not be as cold and the PS would go out from time to > time. > > This was a dealership..btw.... I told the salesman I would pay an agreed > price, if they would replace the belt. The dumb manager comes in and says > he > would replace the belt but could not guaranty that the A/C and PS would > work, would I still buy the car. I said not if the A/C and PS would not > work. He says this is an 13 year old car with almost 100k, sometimes things > don't work. > > He said he can not go around fixing used cars, to see if it fixed the > problem. With the cost of the part and an hour and a half labor that he > would have to pay the guys. I told him I could go down to Autozone for $17 > and put it on in under 10 min, but I understand he has to mark his stuff up > for profit. I said if you put the belt on and the AC and PS works I am > paying cash for the car today. If not we don't have a deal. He said "No", > I > said "okay then." > > I told the salesman when we went outside, "if he puts the belt on call me > and I will come drive the Jeep again." > > I really hate dealerships and their games!!! This was an easy transaction, > that they totally screwed up. > > So anyway.... still, lightly in the market for a Jeep. > > David > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:20 PM, john wrote: > > > cats are easy to gut. > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, Kevin wrote: > > > > # Yes, three. On the Y2K cherokee my brother has, the exhaust manifold > is > > # actually two separate manifolds (1,2,3 and 4,5,6) which each attach to > > the top > > # of a cat. After gas flows through that cat, the pipes Y together and > > head to > > # another cat, then the muffler. Naturally, the first two cats are part > of > > the > > # Y-pipe, so I figure that'll be nice and cheap to replace should it > > require > > # replacement. > > # > > # I figure that this is the primary reason that my trail beater will > > absolutely > > # roast my brother's jeep, and why there doesn't appear to be a mileage > > penalty > > # driving the trail beater instead of my brother's. From a driveline > > standpoint > > # the two trucks are indentical, except the beater has been regeared to > > 4.10 > > # gears and is locked front and rear. Beater's sitting on mud tires, and > > # my brother has stock sized michelins on his. > > # > > # I mean, the K&N that the trail beater has on it can't be responsible > for > > the > > # power difference, regardless of what K&N tells you ;) > > # > > # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:17:43AM -0500, David Bierschank wrote: > > # > Yeah I guess I should have said.... > > # > > > # > This is just for a daily driver... > > # > > > # > This Jeep is Stock.... and all is supposed to work, but I will still > > check > > # > it all out. > > # > > > # > Wow.... three CATS...... I really don't like even the one I have and > > most > > # > cars. > > # > > > > > > -- > David Bierschank > Help me in reaching my goal on the MS Bike Ride from Tulsa to Oklahoma City > http://tinyurl.com/OKMS150DavidB > > okc67mustang-at-gmail.com > dbier-at-att.net > - -- David Bierschank Help me in reaching my goal on the MS Bike Ride from Tulsa to Oklahoma City http://tinyurl.com/OKMS150DavidB okc67mustang-at-gmail.com dbier-at-att.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:00:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? there are respectable dealerships like this... I bought one of my wj's at such a shop... turns out the guy is a neighbor of one of my classmates from work... there are decent used car salesfolks out there... not many, but they are there... if the guy has others that are consistently happy, feel free to post his name here, can't hurt, might help someone googling him for info. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, Ed Kummel wrote: # This was at a dealership? A used car dealership or new? That doesn't really # make sense...if he's selling cars, then getting a car to work to sell is his # business! # # I recently purchased a used car from a local used car dealer...everything # checked out when I test drove it, but like you, the belt was making noise # especially when the AC was turned on. I also noticed that there was a ding in # the windshield. Told him that if he fixes those two things, I'll pay him cash # right on the spot. He agreed, I signed the papers and handed him a stack of # hundreds. He was a little suprised...I told him...I said cash! # The next day, he called to say that the things were fixed and I went to get it # and drove it home. # Unfortunately, the next day, the car died on the way to work...felt like it # ran out of gas...but there was at least a quarter tank in the car. I called # the dealership and he sent out a tow-truck...he said that if it turns out that # it was out of gas, then I would pay for it...if it was something else, he # would pay for it...Turns out that the fuel pump is integral with the pickup # and the silicon seals swelled up and blocked the gas...he replaced the pickup # and pump and didn't charge me (I only had it a day...) since then, the thing's # been running great and that was about 8 months ago! I will patron him again # when I want another car...he stands behind his products and he has won a # customer... # Ed # web/gadget guru # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # By Richard Feynman, Physicist, Nobel winner (1918-1988) # # # "There are 10^11 stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's # only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call # them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers." # # --- On Mon, 8/10/09, David Bierschank wrote: # # From: David Bierschank # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? # To: xj-at-digest.net # Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 4:50 PM # # Well I went and test drove the Jeep.... all was good, then I took it to show # the wife..... all was still good. As I was checking it out at the house and # the belt started to slip. Looking at it, it is cracked, and hard. On the # way back the A/C would not be as cold and the PS would go out from time to # time. # # This was a dealership..btw.... I told the salesman I would pay an agreed # price, if they would replace the belt. The dumb manager comes in and says he # would replace the belt but could not guaranty that the A/C and PS would # work, would I still buy the car. I said not if the A/C and PS would not # work. He says this is an 13 year old car with almost 100k, sometimes things # don't work. # # He said he can not go around fixing used cars, to see if it fixed the # problem. With the cost of the part and an hour and a half labor that he # would have to pay the guys. I told him I could go down to Autozone for $17 # and put it on in under 10 min, but I understand he has to mark his stuff up # for profit. I said if you put the belt on and the AC and PS works I am # paying cash for the car today. If not we don't have a deal. He said "No", I # said "okay then." # # I told the salesman when we went outside, "if he puts the belt on call me # and I will come drive the Jeep again." # # I really hate dealerships and their games!!! This was an easy transaction, # that they totally screwed up. # # So anyway.... still, lightly in the market for a Jeep. # # David # # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:20 PM, john wrote: # # > cats are easy to gut. # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, Kevin wrote: # > # > # Yes, three. On the Y2K cherokee my brother has, the exhaust manifold is # > # actually two separate manifolds (1,2,3 and 4,5,6) which each attach to # > the top # > # of a cat. After gas flows through that cat, the pipes Y together and # > head to # > # another cat, then the muffler. Naturally, the first two cats are part of # > the # > # Y-pipe, so I figure that'll be nice and cheap to replace should it # > require # > # replacement. # > # # > # I figure that this is the primary reason that my trail beater will # > absolutely # > # roast my brother's jeep, and why there doesn't appear to be a mileage # > penalty # > # driving the trail beater instead of my brother's. From a driveline # > standpoint # > # the two trucks are indentical, except the beater has been regeared to # > 4.10 # > # gears and is locked front and rear. Beater's sitting on mud tires, and # > # my brother has stock sized michelins on his. # > # # > # I mean, the K&N that the trail beater has on it can't be responsible for # > the # > # power difference, regardless of what K&N tells you ;) # > # # > # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:17:43AM -0500, David Bierschank wrote: # > # > Yeah I guess I should have said.... # > # > # > # > This is just for a daily driver... # > # > # > # > This Jeep is Stock.... and all is supposed to work, but I will still # > check # > # > it all out. # > # > # > # > Wow.... three CATS...... I really don't like even the one I have and # > most # > # > cars. # > # # > # # # # -- # David Bierschank # Help me in reaching my goal on the MS Bike Ride from Tulsa to Oklahoma City # http://tinyurl.com/OKMS150DavidB # # okc67mustang-at-gmail.com # dbier-at-att.net # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3057 *************************