From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 12 10:55:34 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Wednesday, August 12 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3059 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: OT: Liberty plug changes Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: OT: Liberty plug changes Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: OT: Liberty plug changes xj: Re: [db] '03 VW Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:13:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: OT: Liberty plug changes imagine your SJ with a nice 4.7L V8... remember towing my 2,000lb j10 hydraulic dump trailer down to centralia with an SD33T and transmission in the back I still pulled 16 mpg... I've seen 21 mpg on the freeway... and that 4.7 in the WJ will blow the doors off any 5.9L I've ever own, driven, or seen... dropping the 4.7 in an SJ would be a wiring challenge, and oil changes or synthetic oils are a must, but it would be an ideal drivetrain for those of you with gas. for me and my house, it's Diesel. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, JeepNut wrote: # Thanks to all for the advice on this little task. # Owner complained of slight # roughness at idle on a newly acquired '08 KJ with approx. 45K miles. Changed # the plugs and found the electrodes on several of them in good shape but the # center conductor was pretty somewhat vaporized on the side closest to the bend # on the electrode on most of the NGK OEM plugs. Looked like pretty normal wear # and the plugs looked good otherwise. But the gap was wide of course on the # one side of the conductor that was worn down. # # They were surprisingly easy to # change. 10mm on the nuts to remove the coils. Standard 5/8" plug wrench to # pull the plugs. # No problem at all accessing 5 of the coils. 1 was slightly # obstructed but nothing had to come off to get it off. All popped loose quite # easily with no tool. # # Could have used some canned air or an air tank to blow # out some slight debris from around them before pulling the coils off but it # was minor and no problem. # # Owner reports 2+ improved mpg and an immediate # improvement in the idle. # His choice on the plugs: Bosch Platinum 4. # A great # result, an easy task, and I'm afraid I'm impressed somewhat by a vehicle that # is WAY newer than any I've ever been interested in looking at, much less # working on. I doubt that I could ever LOVE it like I do my SJ but it has it's # advantages...for a yuppie poser who'll never WHEEL a Jeep. LOL # # BTW for those # who remember, the heart of the Rez Runner is still beating strong and sucking # gas like a maniac in my SJ pushing 285000 miles now. Love those Edelbrock # parts altho the chrome air cleaner and valve covers are no longer very shiny. # It's for wheelin' so I don't care about the facade anyway. # Great job on the # rebuild Vince! Where ever you are.... # Back to my hole to lurk... but wanted # to say thanks! # # JeepNut # # # --- On Thu, 8/6/09, JeepNut # wrote: # # > From: JeepNut # > Subject: OT: Liberty plug # changes # > To: "FSJ List" , xj-at-digest.net # > Date: Thursday, # August 6, 2009, 3:22 PM # > Howdy all, # > Got a co-worker asking if I would # change plugs on his '08 # > Dodge Liberty Jeep Nitro thing. 3.7l. # > Says it has # some coil on the plug setup. # > Not familiar, but doesn't worry me too much. # > # Just sparkplugs. But wondering if anyone knows of any # > caveats. # > I've only # worked on the old stuff so there could be # > something like BE SURE TO # DISCONNECT THE BATTERY on these # > things. # > Anybody? # > Thanks! # > # > # > JeepNut # > ---------------------------------------------------------- # > '04 Grand # Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's # > hers. # > '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, # still in daily use... # > '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. # > '88 Grand # Wagoneer # > - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 # > 600cfm 4bbl, # > TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R # > -3:31- # > B.J.'s # Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended # > brake lines, # > ProComp # 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 # > 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 # lamps...and then some. # > # ---------------------------------------------------------- # > Registered Linux # user #287453 # > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:21:01 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: OT: Liberty plug changes If you want to go there, the cummins 4x4 dually got better mileage pulling an 85 toyota landcruiser from roughly 200 feet elevation roughly 60 miles to 2700 feet elevation than a DEAD STOCK 2000 XJ got heading 35 miles into town and back to get a new fuel pump ... for another XJ. We won't get into the part where the loaded cummins stomped two idiots on the 8% grade that didn't realize the speed limit was in miles per hour, not klicks. ;) I don't know how hard a 4.7 would be into an SJ, but someone stuck a chrysler 5.7 hemi into one for SEMA's show in vegas a while back... On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:13:49PM -0700, john wrote: > imagine your SJ with a nice 4.7L V8... remember towing > my 2,000lb j10 hydraulic dump trailer down to centralia > with an SD33T and transmission in the back I still pulled 16 mpg... > > I've seen 21 mpg on the freeway... and that 4.7 in the WJ will > blow the doors off any 5.9L I've ever own, driven, or seen... > > dropping the 4.7 in an SJ would be a wiring challenge, and oil > changes or synthetic oils are a must, but it would be an ideal > drivetrain for those of you with gas. > > for me and my house, it's Diesel. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:34:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: OT: Liberty plug changes the 4.7 is a nice little engine... sohc... biggest issue is the computers... not hard, but too many of them. lots of 4.7's are dead or dying, figured out the minute lube places are using crappy oil and if you drive short distances things gum up and oil passages clog and you get a dead engine... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Kevin wrote: # If you want to go there, the cummins 4x4 dually got better mileage pulling # an 85 toyota landcruiser from roughly 200 feet elevation roughly 60 miles to # 2700 feet elevation than a DEAD STOCK 2000 XJ got heading 35 miles into town # and back to get a new fuel pump ... for another XJ. # # We won't get into the part where the loaded cummins stomped two idiots on # the 8% grade that didn't realize the speed limit was in miles per hour, not # klicks. ;) # # I don't know how hard a 4.7 would be into an SJ, but someone stuck a # chrysler 5.7 hemi into one for SEMA's show in vegas a while back... # # On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:13:49PM -0700, john wrote: # > imagine your SJ with a nice 4.7L V8... remember towing # > my 2,000lb j10 hydraulic dump trailer down to centralia # > with an SD33T and transmission in the back I still pulled 16 mpg... # > # > I've seen 21 mpg on the freeway... and that 4.7 in the WJ will # > blow the doors off any 5.9L I've ever own, driven, or seen... # > # > dropping the 4.7 in an SJ would be a wiring challenge, and oil # > changes or synthetic oils are a must, but it would be an ideal # > drivetrain for those of you with gas. # > # > for me and my house, it's Diesel. :) # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:55:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] '03 VW my Diesel XJ didn't... ;) but mine was French. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Stephen Rigley wrote: # my diesel XJ has gears ;-) # # On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:01 AM, john wrote: # # > chains are better than rubber bands, # > gears are better than chains... # > # > but Diesels are better than Gas, so I'll live with a rubber band if one # > finds # > it's way into my fleet... :) # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Kevin wrote: # > # > # Chains are for the weak. The landcruiser has gears :) # > # # > # On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 09:31:47PM -0700, john wrote: # > # > interference motors... # > # > # > # > I wonder if there is a gear set that can be installed to replace the # > rubber band? # > # > # > # > My Diesels all have chains... :) # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:20:42 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Toyota diesels are efficient compared to most of the lumbering behemoth diesels in US trucks. Same goes with Nissan SD33T. Adding an overdrive and EFI to the current motor in an FSJ makes the economy about the same as the same rig with a diesel (Cummins powered ones are about the only ones that are better than average I've seen) For an XJ/MJ, the factory option (Renault 2.1L turbo) was a poor choice. Not installing a Toyota or Mercedes (or just about any other brand 4 cyl diesel) drivetrain was senseless when it was done elsewhere. I just dislike inefficient diesel engines that stink and rattle too much. I find it interesting that now they came close to going out of business, automakers found ways of getting a +20% boost in fuel economy. From: Kevin Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Nah. Jim's mentioned SD33s in passing for the better part of ten years. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:43:12PM -0700, john wrote: > wait a minute... did I read this correctly? > > Did I see a simply glorious noun in this email??? of > course it should be capitalized as it's the name of the > inventor... few realize that... > > wow, I think I'm having an effect on Jim... some day he may > consider buying a green car too... well, that might be a bit much to ask. :) _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_syn c:082009 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:45:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? inefficient Diesel engine? jim, you need to get that exhaust fixed on that big chevy gas guzzler of yours, I think the fumes are getting to you... :) agreed, the Renault 2.1L TD was a poor choice, but I loved it nonetheless, 26 mpg in town and 32 on the freeway fully loaded with the a/c running... don't know of any XJ without a Diesel engine that could do that... just how efficient are modern fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engines these days anyway? what percentage of energy are they able to extract from gasoline? 10%? 15%? maybe 20%? compare that to the energy extracted with a comparable sized Diesel engine... even the detuned american ones do better than their gasoline counterparts. Even with Mercedes there is a tremendous difference in efficiency. My '91 300D gets 30 mpg in town, a friend has a '91 300E... he gets 16 mpg. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # Toyota diesels are efficient compared to most of the lumbering behemoth # diesels in US trucks. Same goes with Nissan SD33T. Adding an overdrive and EFI # to the current motor in an FSJ makes the economy about the same as the same # rig with a diesel (Cummins powered ones are about the only ones that are # better than average I've seen) # For an XJ/MJ, the factory option (Renault 2.1L turbo) was a poor choice. # Not installing a Toyota or Mercedes (or just about any other brand 4 cyl # diesel) drivetrain was senseless when it was done elsewhere. I just dislike # inefficient diesel engines that stink and rattle too much. # I find it interesting that now they came close to going out of business, # automakers found ways of getting a +20% boost in fuel economy. # # # From: Kevin # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? # # Nah. Jim's mentioned SD33s in passing for the better part of ten years. # # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:43:12PM -0700, john wrote: # > wait a minute... did I read this correctly? # > # > Did I see a simply glorious noun in this email??? of # > course it should be capitalized as it's the name of the # > inventor... few realize that... # > # > wow, I think I'm having an effect on Jim... some day he may # > consider buying a green car too... well, that might be a bit much to ask. # :) # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:49:49 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon-R16884" Subject: RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? I get 19-20 in my '92 400E, without Multi-port, shows the straight 6 designs rarely have good fuel distribution or chamber flow. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:45 AM To: xj Cc: diesel-benz list Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? inefficient Diesel engine? jim, you need to get that exhaust fixed on that big chevy gas guzzler of yours, I think the fumes are getting to you... :) agreed, the Renault 2.1L TD was a poor choice, but I loved it nonetheless, 26 mpg in town and 32 on the freeway fully loaded with the a/c running... don't know of any XJ without a Diesel engine that could do that... just how efficient are modern fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engines these days anyway? what percentage of energy are they able to extract from gasoline? 10%? 15%? maybe 20%? compare that to the energy extracted with a comparable sized Diesel engine... even the detuned american ones do better than their gasoline counterparts. Even with Mercedes there is a tremendous difference in efficiency. My '91 300D gets 30 mpg in town, a friend has a '91 300E... he gets 16 mpg. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # Toyota diesels are efficient compared to most of the lumbering behemoth # diesels in US trucks. Same goes with Nissan SD33T. Adding an overdrive and EFI # to the current motor in an FSJ makes the economy about the same as the same # rig with a diesel (Cummins powered ones are about the only ones that are # better than average I've seen) # For an XJ/MJ, the factory option (Renault 2.1L turbo) was a poor choice. # Not installing a Toyota or Mercedes (or just about any other brand 4 cyl # diesel) drivetrain was senseless when it was done elsewhere. I just dislike # inefficient diesel engines that stink and rattle too much. # I find it interesting that now they came close to going out of business, # automakers found ways of getting a +20% boost in fuel economy. # # # From: Kevin # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? # # Nah. Jim's mentioned SD33s in passing for the better part of ten years. # # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:43:12PM -0700, john wrote: # > wait a minute... did I read this correctly? # > # > Did I see a simply glorious noun in this email??? of # > course it should be capitalized as it's the name of the # > inventor... few realize that... # > # > wow, I think I'm having an effect on Jim... some day he may # > consider buying a green car too... well, that might be a bit much to ask. # :) # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:55:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? that's highway, my '92 300D has done 39.75 mpg before... typical freeway at speed is only about 36 mpg. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # I get 19-20 in my '92 400E, without Multi-port, shows the straight 6 # designs rarely have good fuel distribution or chamber flow. # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:45 AM # To: xj # Cc: diesel-benz list # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? # # inefficient Diesel engine? # # jim, you need to get that exhaust fixed on that big chevy gas guzzler of # yours, # I think the fumes are getting to you... :) # # agreed, the Renault 2.1L TD was a poor choice, but I loved it # nonetheless, # 26 mpg in town and 32 on the freeway fully loaded with the a/c # running... don't # know of any XJ without a Diesel engine that could do that... # # just how efficient are modern fuel injected computer controlled gasoline # engines these days anyway? # what percentage of energy are they able to extract from gasoline? 10%? # 15%? maybe 20%? # compare that to the energy extracted with a comparable sized Diesel # engine... even the detuned # american ones do better than their gasoline counterparts. # # Even with Mercedes there is a tremendous difference in efficiency. My # '91 300D gets 30 mpg in town, # a friend has a '91 300E... he gets 16 mpg. # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # # # Toyota diesels are efficient compared to most of the lumbering # behemoth # # diesels in US trucks. Same goes with Nissan SD33T. Adding an # overdrive and EFI # # to the current motor in an FSJ makes the economy about the same as # the same # # rig with a diesel (Cummins powered ones are about the only ones that # are # # better than average I've seen) # # For an XJ/MJ, the factory option (Renault 2.1L turbo) was a poor # choice. # # Not installing a Toyota or Mercedes (or just about any other brand 4 # cyl # # diesel) drivetrain was senseless when it was done elsewhere. I just # dislike # # inefficient diesel engines that stink and rattle too much. # # I find it interesting that now they came close to going out of # business, # # automakers found ways of getting a +20% boost in fuel economy. # # # # # # From: Kevin # # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? # # # # Nah. Jim's mentioned SD33s in passing for the better part of ten # years. # # # # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:43:12PM -0700, john wrote: # # > wait a minute... did I read this correctly? # # > # # > Did I see a simply glorious noun in this email??? of # # > course it should be capitalized as it's the name of the # # > inventor... few realize that... # # > # # > wow, I think I'm having an effect on Jim... some day he may # # > consider buying a green car too... well, that might be a bit much # to ask. # # :) # # # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3059 *************************