From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Sep 14 11:24:11 2009 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, September 14 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3072 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Quadra drive? Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:50:24 -0500 From: David Bierschank Subject: xj: Quadra drive? I am looking at a 2001Grand Cherokee with the Quadra drive. I have not really ever looked at the Grands very closely. This Jeep has about every option I am looking for ..... I definitely want a 4x4, but I just am not familiar with the Quadra dirve system. It also had a V-8 with about 95000 miles. What are your opinions on this Quadra dive system? Is this something to avoid, with know issues, or is it a non factor? It would take the guess work from my wife as to if she needs to engage the 4wdr on snow and ice.... which is a plus. This Jeep, would just be a daily driver and for some short family weekend trips. So I am not looking to wheel with it or lift it.... just typical city driving. I have not driven the Jeep yet, but plan to in the next couple of days. Any other input spacific to this year model and set up, as far as things to look for would be great. Thanks for any input.... David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:26:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... my '99 WJ has Quadradrive... works fine, but it does have some history of not working as advertised for some folks. the early wj's had issues with the pinion bearing preload not being set properly at the factory... not a big deal... dana 44's fore and aft. I have had momentary episodes of it not engaging immediately... (on my hillside, but it does engage and I'm able to get out of my drive, easier than I did with Quadratrac on Old Blue, a legend as reported at Camp Jeep 1998. :) the 4.7L V8 is a superb motor, but short commutes and dino oil are NOT recommended... with dino oil the best my 4.7's have done is 18.3, with amsoil synthetic I see 21 mpg on the freeway at times. the quadra drive system uses gerotor technology, very cool, all mechanical, no electronics... simple... when it works it's great... works fine even when it doesn't work though, just without the lock up. gerotor uses a very simple system of clutches... the patent is owned by a company in Santa Barbara, one of the guys from my old FSJ list is a mechanical engineer that went to work there. info on Quadradrive: http://www.wjjeeps.com/tcases.htm (the wjjeeps site is outstanding!) from wikipedia: 'Quadra-Drive (WJ) Quadra-Drive employed the New Venture Gear NV247 transfer case. This two-speed chain-driven transfer case uses a gerotor, a clutch pack coupled to a hydraulic pump, to transfer torque between the front and rear axles. The transfer case contains three modes, 4-All Time, Neutral, and 4-Lo. In 4-All Time, 100% of torque is sent to the rear axle in normal conditions. If the rear axle starts spinning at a higher rate than the front axle, hydraulic pressure builds up in the gerotor and causes the clutch pack to progressively transfer torque to the front axle until both axles return to the same speed. Neutral mode is intended for towing the vehicle. In 4-Lo, the front and rear axles are locked together through a 2.72 reduction gear ratio. In Quadra-Drive, the NV247 transfer case is mated to front and rear axles containing Jeep's Vari-Lok differentials. Vari-Lok differentials also use a gerotor to transfer torque. Applications: * Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 1999.2004 ' As far as WJs, avoid the 4.0 not because the 4.0 isn't good, it's because it's mated to the same crappy trans they used in the ZJs, the 42RE. The 4.7's are mated to the 45RFE, have had very good luck with them, and better highway mileage. In town the 4.0s will get about 1mpg more... I've had three '99 WJs, 2 4.7s and 1 4.0. Two Laredos, one Limited. The climate control on the Limiteds is ok, max temp diff of 5deg between sides, I could never get it cold enough on my side, wife couldn't get it warm enough on her side... simple is better, but I wouldn't not get it. my '99 has 165,000 miles on it... just replace a couple axle seals and a front wheel bearing, otherwise nothing but a sensor in the trans ($65) has gone wrong... if your brakes rotors warp, get the power slotted replacements. run synthetics throughout and you'll be happy... oh yeah, and get the cabin filter, easy to install... the infinity sound system is superb... I transplanted leather seats into my laredo... with the price of WJs coming down I may look for a bargain on one with a dead 4.7 from oil failure (pennzoil, quaker state or valvoline compliments minute lube places and short commutes... sludge, clogs the galleries and cam failure results, engines are hard to find and very, very expensive...) I would think the 4.7/45rfe/nv247 drivetrain would be a superb swap into an XJ or SJ, but for all the computers... you'd have to get ALL of the wiring and computers and original keys to make it work... would be nice if you did... the 4.7 is the smoothest fastest reving V8 I've ever owned, love it. We love our WJ for interstate travel... this was at Glacier in 2006: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/SouthDakota_2006/WJ-lightning.jpg it's also a fine tow rig, way overloaded: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/01-Jan-19-mark-snow-omega_recovery/P1150161.jpg have some info on WJs on my site, not as extensive as XJ or SJ (because it just works... :) http://wagoneers.com/WJ/ john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, David Bierschank wrote: # I am looking at a 2001Grand Cherokee with the Quadra drive. I have not # really ever looked at the Grands very closely. This Jeep has about every # option I am looking for ..... I definitely want a 4x4, but I just am not # familiar with the Quadra dirve system. It also had a V-8 with about 95000 # miles. # # What are your opinions on this Quadra dive system? Is this something to # avoid, with know issues, or is it a non factor? # # It would take the guess work from my wife as to if she needs to engage the # 4wdr on snow and ice.... which is a plus. # # This Jeep, would just be a daily driver and for some short family weekend # trips. So I am not looking to wheel with it or lift it.... just typical city # driving. # # I have not driven the Jeep yet, but plan to in the next couple of days. Any # other input spacific to this year model and set up, as far as things to look # for would be great. # Thanks for any input.... # # David # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:03:35 -0500 From: David Bierschank Subject: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... Thanks John, I was digging through your site after I sent the email, and was getting some good info. I saw the pic where you slid back and sideways down your drive with the insert about the quadra drive needs one wheel to catch.... Saw the postings about the breaks in my email archives. I was concerned about the transmission.."42Re". I could not remember which Jeeps had those.... but I know to avoid them if possible. Glad to see this one is not one of those. I am really liking what I see so far about the WJ's with the 4.7 V-8. I will look further into the links you provided. This particular Jeep has leather and a sunroof which I really want both, plus power almost everything else. It appears to be in great shape..... very clean inside and out. I guess I need to go take it for a spin and see how it drives. David On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:26 PM, john wrote: > my '99 WJ has Quadradrive... works fine, but it does have some history of > not working as advertised for some folks. the early wj's had issues > with the pinion bearing preload not being set properly at the factory... > not a big deal... dana 44's fore and aft. I have had momentary episodes > of it not engaging immediately... (on my hillside, but it does engage > and I'm able to get out of my drive, easier than I did with Quadratrac > on Old Blue, a legend as reported at Camp Jeep 1998. :) > > the 4.7L V8 is a superb motor, but short commutes and dino oil are NOT > recommended... with dino oil the best my 4.7's have done is 18.3, with > amsoil synthetic I see 21 mpg on the freeway at times. > > the quadra drive system uses gerotor technology, very cool, all mechanical, > no electronics... simple... when it works it's great... works fine > even when it doesn't work though, just without the lock up. > > gerotor uses a very simple system of clutches... the patent > is owned by a company in Santa Barbara, one of the guys from my old FSJ > list > is a mechanical engineer that went to work there. > > info on Quadradrive: > http://www.wjjeeps.com/tcases.htm (the wjjeeps site is outstanding!) > from wikipedia: > 'Quadra-Drive (WJ) > > Quadra-Drive employed the New Venture Gear NV247 transfer case. > This two-speed chain-driven transfer case uses a gerotor, a clutch pack > coupled to a > hydraulic pump, to transfer torque between the front and rear axles. The > transfer case contains three modes, 4-All Time, Neutral, and 4-Lo. > In 4-All Time, 100% of torque is sent to the rear axle in normal > conditions. > If the rear axle starts spinning at a higher rate than the front axle, > hydraulic pressure builds up in the gerotor and causes the clutch pack to > progressively transfer torque to the front axle until both axles return to > the > same speed. Neutral mode is intended for towing the vehicle. In 4-Lo, > the front and rear axles are locked together through a 2.72 reduction gear > ratio. > > In Quadra-Drive, the NV247 transfer case is mated to front and rear axles > containing Jeep's Vari-Lok differentials. Vari-Lok differentials also use a > gerotor to transfer torque. > > Applications: * Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 1999.2004 ' > > > As far as WJs, avoid the 4.0 not because the 4.0 isn't good, it's because > it's mated to the same crappy trans they used in the ZJs, the 42RE. The > 4.7's are mated to the 45RFE, have had very good luck with them, and better > highway mileage. In town the 4.0s will get about 1mpg more... > > I've had three '99 WJs, 2 4.7s and 1 4.0. Two Laredos, one Limited. The > climate control on the Limiteds is ok, max temp diff of 5deg between sides, > I could never get it cold enough on my side, wife couldn't get it warm > enough > on her side... simple is better, but I wouldn't not get it. > > my '99 has 165,000 miles on it... just replace a couple axle seals and a > front wheel bearing, otherwise nothing but a sensor in the trans ($65) has > gone wrong... if your brakes rotors warp, get the power slotted > replacements. > > run synthetics throughout and you'll be happy... oh yeah, and get the cabin > filter, > easy to install... the infinity sound system is superb... > > I transplanted leather seats into my laredo... > > with the price of WJs coming down I may look for a bargain on one with a > dead > 4.7 from oil failure (pennzoil, quaker state or valvoline compliments > minute lube > places and short commutes... sludge, clogs the galleries and cam failure > results, > engines are hard to find and very, very expensive...) > > I would think the 4.7/45rfe/nv247 drivetrain would be a superb swap into > an XJ or SJ, but for all the computers... you'd have to get ALL of the > wiring and computers and original keys to make it work... would be nice if > you did... the 4.7 is the smoothest fastest reving V8 I've ever owned, love > it. > > > We love our WJ for interstate travel... this was at Glacier in 2006: > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/SouthDakota_2006/WJ-lightning.jpg > it's also a fine tow rig, way overloaded: > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/01-Jan-19-mark-snow-omega_recovery/P1150161.jpg > > have some info on WJs on my site, not as extensive as XJ or SJ (because it > just works... :) > http://wagoneers.com/WJ/ > > john > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, David Bierschank wrote: > > # I am looking at a 2001Grand Cherokee with the Quadra drive. I have not > # really ever looked at the Grands very closely. This Jeep has about > every > # option I am looking for ..... I definitely want a 4x4, but I just am not > # familiar with the Quadra dirve system. It also had a V-8 with about > 95000 > # miles. > # > # What are your opinions on this Quadra dive system? Is this something to > # avoid, with know issues, or is it a non factor? > # > # It would take the guess work from my wife as to if she needs to engage > the > # 4wdr on snow and ice.... which is a plus. > # > # This Jeep, would just be a daily driver and for some short family > weekend > # trips. So I am not looking to wheel with it or lift it.... just typical > city > # driving. > # > # I have not driven the Jeep yet, but plan to in the next couple of days. > Any > # other input spacific to this year model and set up, as far as things to > look > # for would be great. > # Thanks for any input.... > # > # David > # > - -- David Bierschank Help me in reaching my goal on the MS Bike Ride from Tulsa to Oklahoma City http://tinyurl.com/OKMS150DavidB okc67mustang-at-gmail.com dbier-at-att.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... sounds like a Limited, or a well apointed Laredo. # I saw the pic where you slid back and sideways down your drive # with the insert about the quadra drive needs one wheel to catch.... the problem with the snowy hillside was WORN tires... ALL four tires were trying to grab... but couldn't... :) new tires fixed the problem. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, David Bierschank wrote: # Thanks John, # # I was digging through your site after I sent the email, and was getting some # good info. # I saw the pic where you slid back and sideways down your drive # with the insert about the quadra drive needs one wheel to catch.... Saw the # postings about the breaks in my email archives. I was concerned about the # transmission.."42Re". I could not remember which Jeeps had those.... but I # know to avoid them if possible. Glad to see this one is not one of those. # # I am really liking what I see so far about the WJ's with the 4.7 V-8. I will # look further into the links you provided. # # This particular Jeep has leather and a sunroof which I really want both, # plus power almost everything else. It appears to be in great shape..... # very clean inside and out. I guess I need to go take it for a spin and see # how it drives. # # David # # # On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:26 PM, john wrote: # # > my '99 WJ has Quadradrive... works fine, but it does have some history of # > not working as advertised for some folks. the early wj's had issues # > with the pinion bearing preload not being set properly at the factory... # > not a big deal... dana 44's fore and aft. I have had momentary episodes # > of it not engaging immediately... (on my hillside, but it does engage # > and I'm able to get out of my drive, easier than I did with Quadratrac # > on Old Blue, a legend as reported at Camp Jeep 1998. :) # > # > the 4.7L V8 is a superb motor, but short commutes and dino oil are NOT # > recommended... with dino oil the best my 4.7's have done is 18.3, with # > amsoil synthetic I see 21 mpg on the freeway at times. # > # > the quadra drive system uses gerotor technology, very cool, all mechanical, # > no electronics... simple... when it works it's great... works fine # > even when it doesn't work though, just without the lock up. # > # > gerotor uses a very simple system of clutches... the patent # > is owned by a company in Santa Barbara, one of the guys from my old FSJ # > list # > is a mechanical engineer that went to work there. # > # > info on Quadradrive: # > http://www.wjjeeps.com/tcases.htm (the wjjeeps site is outstanding!) # > from wikipedia: # > 'Quadra-Drive (WJ) # > # > Quadra-Drive employed the New Venture Gear NV247 transfer case. # > This two-speed chain-driven transfer case uses a gerotor, a clutch pack # > coupled to a # > hydraulic pump, to transfer torque between the front and rear axles. The # > transfer case contains three modes, 4-All Time, Neutral, and 4-Lo. # > In 4-All Time, 100% of torque is sent to the rear axle in normal # > conditions. # > If the rear axle starts spinning at a higher rate than the front axle, # > hydraulic pressure builds up in the gerotor and causes the clutch pack to # > progressively transfer torque to the front axle until both axles return to # > the # > same speed. Neutral mode is intended for towing the vehicle. In 4-Lo, # > the front and rear axles are locked together through a 2.72 reduction gear # > ratio. # > # > In Quadra-Drive, the NV247 transfer case is mated to front and rear axles # > containing Jeep's Vari-Lok differentials. Vari-Lok differentials also use a # > gerotor to transfer torque. # > # > Applications: * Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 1999.2004 ' # > # > # > As far as WJs, avoid the 4.0 not because the 4.0 isn't good, it's because # > it's mated to the same crappy trans they used in the ZJs, the 42RE. The # > 4.7's are mated to the 45RFE, have had very good luck with them, and better # > highway mileage. In town the 4.0s will get about 1mpg more... # > # > I've had three '99 WJs, 2 4.7s and 1 4.0. Two Laredos, one Limited. The # > climate control on the Limiteds is ok, max temp diff of 5deg between sides, # > I could never get it cold enough on my side, wife couldn't get it warm # > enough # > on her side... simple is better, but I wouldn't not get it. # > # > my '99 has 165,000 miles on it... just replace a couple axle seals and a # > front wheel bearing, otherwise nothing but a sensor in the trans ($65) has # > gone wrong... if your brakes rotors warp, get the power slotted # > replacements. # > # > run synthetics throughout and you'll be happy... oh yeah, and get the cabin # > filter, # > easy to install... the infinity sound system is superb... # > # > I transplanted leather seats into my laredo... # > # > with the price of WJs coming down I may look for a bargain on one with a # > dead # > 4.7 from oil failure (pennzoil, quaker state or valvoline compliments # > minute lube # > places and short commutes... sludge, clogs the galleries and cam failure # > results, # > engines are hard to find and very, very expensive...) # > # > I would think the 4.7/45rfe/nv247 drivetrain would be a superb swap into # > an XJ or SJ, but for all the computers... you'd have to get ALL of the # > wiring and computers and original keys to make it work... would be nice if # > you did... the 4.7 is the smoothest fastest reving V8 I've ever owned, love # > it. # > # > # > We love our WJ for interstate travel... this was at Glacier in 2006: # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/SouthDakota_2006/WJ-lightning.jpg # > it's also a fine tow rig, way overloaded: # > # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/01-Jan-19-mark-snow-omega_recovery/P1150161.jpg # > # > have some info on WJs on my site, not as extensive as XJ or SJ (because it # > just works... :) # > http://wagoneers.com/WJ/ # > # > john # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, David Bierschank wrote: # > # > # I am looking at a 2001Grand Cherokee with the Quadra drive. I have not # > # really ever looked at the Grands very closely. This Jeep has about # > every # > # option I am looking for ..... I definitely want a 4x4, but I just am not # > # familiar with the Quadra dirve system. It also had a V-8 with about # > 95000 # > # miles. # > # # > # What are your opinions on this Quadra dive system? Is this something to # > # avoid, with know issues, or is it a non factor? # > # # > # It would take the guess work from my wife as to if she needs to engage # > the # > # 4wdr on snow and ice.... which is a plus. # > # # > # This Jeep, would just be a daily driver and for some short family # > weekend # > # trips. So I am not looking to wheel with it or lift it.... just typical # > city # > # driving. # > # # > # I have not driven the Jeep yet, but plan to in the next couple of days. # > Any # > # other input spacific to this year model and set up, as far as things to # > look # > # for would be great. # > # Thanks for any input.... # > # # > # David # > # # > # # # # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3072 *************************